Trent- Severn Waterway

[Captain_Michael]

My wife and I are contemplating cruising the Trent-Severn Waterway this coming (2024) summer. We would start at Trent-Quinte on Lake Ontario and exit at Port Severn on Georgian Bay. After some time in Georgian Bay and the North Channel, we would return to Lake Ontario via Lake Huron and the St. Clair and Detroit Rivers.

I am concerned about the depth in the Waterway because my boat draws 5'6" and the Waterway website says while the draft is 6', if one draws 5'6" or more, one must sign a statement that one recognizes that the depth may be less, necessitating a turn-around. Sort of a message there.

The Waterway website says depths are "adjusted" by the Waterway authorities using dam spillage to prevent shallowing in the Waterway and regional flooding in surrounding areas and tributaries. Something sticks in the back of my mind that I read that June or early July is the better season for passage, having greater depth owing to winter run-off and melt, allowing the Waterway authorities to keep the depth in the Waterway high (6').

Has anyone done the Waterway and know anything about the depth and if conditions are better for my draft in the spring or early summer? We are retired and felixble with scheduling.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. CM. The Trent-Severn is gorgeous but my experience is at least 20 years old. There seem to be several Facebook sites regarding the T/S. Might be another source of information (anecdotal, of course) as well as here at TF.


Possibly worth talking to some folks at Parks Canada, as well. I very much doubt anyone would commit to any "firm" information but you may get somewhat of a better sense of what's going on.

 

[Bacchus]

I've done the TSW twice but wasn't close to draft limit so little experience w/ problem times / areas. Both times we backtracked through TSW to Lk Ontario.
FYI canal and mooring passes are discounted if purchased before end of March.
2019 was an extreme high water year for the Great Lakes and entering / exiting the 1st / last locks was challenging. Once in the system levels were very well maintained but flows around dams created some abnormal turbulence.
I agree that early season levels should be more predictable as a low precipitation summer can lower levels.
I think I would be contacting the canal authorities to ask how often they have had boaters with draft issues that prevented passage. I understand they will work with boaters to maintain / raise levels in extreme conditions... I'm sure they just don't want to guarantee it so require the sign-off

Another good source might be AGLCA. We certainly observed many vessels looping that Were significantly larger than us.

Georgian Bay is absolutely spectacular cruising ground. We traveled the Inland Small Craft Route from Port Severn to N of Parry Sound. There are a few but limited passages from the open water of GB that connect w/ the small craft route. The narrowest section(s) are the southern route into Parry Sound but even the large tour boats pass through there. It is essential to announce intentions via a "Securite" call on the radio to avoid any passing situations.

Our 2019 cruise log w/ pics is available on my Bacchus website - Cruising Notes - 2019 GB Cruise
The Great Lakes Cruising Club has some very useful & detailed info & localized charts in you want to venture off the marked channels and explore the many beautiful anchorages.

Happy to provide info if you have specific questions.

 

[Jeff F]

I've done it end to end at all times in the season. Depth doesn't vary to an appreciable degree. My draft is about four feet and I have no concerns.

Every year there is a big flotilla of loopers traveling that route, and every year someone reports hitting bottom while in the channel. Last year I hung out in Port Severn for a couple of days and met two boats coming out with damaged props. They don't get much sympathy from the parks staff.

5'6" is pushing it. If you're vulnerable to significant damage in a minor grounding it might be prudent to take an alternative route.

 

[O C Diver]

I did the Trent Severn in 2022 with a 4.5' draft. While it would seem obvious to say, "stay in the channel", there are places where you need to be in the center of the channel. With high water flows in a few spots, that would be more critical. I don't remember any spots where I had less than 2' under my keel, but I had more leeway when getting pushed to the edge of the channel by the current. In summary, I think it's more about your skill to stay centered in the channel when it's important.

As a side note, 2022 had a number of areas with bad weed growth. Fouling the propeller is almost always a matter of putting it in reverse to throw off the weed. However, a good strainer system (ideally outside the hull) is important to keep from over heating the engine. Ended up towing a boat back out of the river to a lock when his engine over heated. He was headed for one of the spillways.

Ted

 

[Flatswing]

[QUOTE The Waterway website says depths are "adjusted" by the Waterway authorities using dam spillage to prevent shallowing in the Waterway and regional flooding in surrounding areas and tributaries. Something sticks in the back of my mind that I read that June or early July is the better season for passage, having greater depth owing to winter run-off and melt, allowing the Waterway authorities to keep the depth in the Waterway high (6').

Has anyone done the Waterway and know anything about the depth and if conditions are better for my draft in the spring or early summer? We are retired and flexible with scheduling.[/QUOTE]

Spring & early summer typically has more water to work with. The lock sills are the issue. Your N 46 has a protected prop but in the Northern sections of the TSW, it's bedrock so staying in the channel is mandatory. Boats with 5' draft go thru all the time. The lockkeepers are the ones who control the depths by raising or lowering logs at the spill dams alongside. If you are patient and talk to the lockkeepers as you go they will be very helpful.

 

[jleonard]

It been a long time, but we did the TS in 2012. That was a low water season.
We met a sailboater at lock 1 who was from Denmark. He had a 6 foot draft.
He had no problems until he got to the lower level at Kirkland and got hung up on the gate or shelf water it’s called.
No damage but he had to wait until the lock system could raise the water level. That took 24 hours.
We saw him a couple weeks later and he said that if he notified the waterway authorities they could have raised the water ahead of time for him.
So definitely advise them of your draft.

 

[Jeff F]

My understanding based on looper chatter over the years and my own casual observation is that the problematic area is below Kirkfield Lift Lock on Canal Lake. I don't doubt that the OP can make it through, but making it through without touching hard bottom is less of a sure thing.

I'd attempt it in a deeper draft boat only if I felt OK about finding bottom with my keel. Transiting that area slowly would minimize damage if there is contact.

I remain skeptical about parks staff doing anything proactively to help. I'm sure if you got seriously hung up they could raise water levels a few inches, but I doubt very much that they're going to do it in advance for a pleasure boat with a reported 5'6" draft.

 

[dvoyer]

We did the TSW back and forth in 2017 and oneway from Trenton to Port Severn last summer (2023). I would think even if water level is controlled there is usually more water early in the season. A friend of mine with a 5'6" draft as yours touched the bottom twice this year. Once exiting a lock and once in the channel between Trenton and Orillia. No damage. We were there in July.

 

[Jeff F]

I got curious and found levels for Canal Lake.

https://www.pc.gc.ca/apps/waterlevels/donnees-data?Id=80&lang=en&siteId=100419

In that section they deliberately lower the levels in the winter and spring then bring them up for navigation season. Any fluctuations after that are going to be due to big storms rather than seasonal effects.

 

[Still Boating]

If one draws 5'6" or more, one must sign a statement that one recognizes that the depth may be less, necessitating a turn-around. Sort of a message there.

I got curious and found levels for Canal Lake.

https://www.pc.gc.ca/apps/waterlevels/donnees-data?Id=80&lang=en&siteId=100419

In that section they deliberately lower the levels in the winter and spring then bring them up for navigation season. Any fluctuations after that are going to be due to big storms rather than seasonal effects.

YES!

We spent 3 months back and forth on the Trent-Severn in 2023, and will do so again in 2024 (DV), adding the Seaway, Ottawa River, and the Rideau Canal to the trip to make it 5 months.

All official information is going to be a derivative of what Jeff posted. What Captain Michael posted is a case in point.

Some have suggested anecdotal sources of the AGLCA (speeding through on a mission to somewhere) or local Facebook groups (mainly local boaters in runabouts and PWCs blasting into town from cottages for groceries, drinks, and ice cream)

If you are patient and talk to the lockkeepers as you go they will be very helpful.

YES!

Flatswing is correct because if you get to know the lock staff they will give you information about what's really going on. It takes them a while to warm up. Some have told me that boaters can get very abusive.

They communicate via cell phone between adjacent locks to give information about traffic expected between locks, and the competency and demeanour of the boats coming through. They have implied that they have a Facebook group that discusses the boats and the reputation of the captains. Get into their good books by giving them respect to get first-hand information. They certainly discuss water levels. Share any info you have about conditions on the waterway and the information gets passed around quickly.

They might invite you into the lock house for coffee in the morning before the lock is officially open. They love hearing about boater experiences in other locks to confirm their own impressions, and compete with one another for their internal reputations and boater appreciation.

They have told me their 3 mandates; water level control for the multitude of dams and waters in the system, customer service, and navigation. We experienced a 4 hour delay at one point, because the water level was out by 6 inches on one of the lakes. We saw less draft than normal at the bridge just east of the entrance to Lake Simcoe, where a small river enters the canal. (there's a warning on the charts) We reported it, and a day later there were survey boats there checking levels. Sometimes a lock can be closed for an hour when the lock staff has to make adjustments to the dams and weirs.

I think the staff does a professional and contentious job, but can't predict and control everything in the waterway all the time. In the 3 months we were on the canal last summer, we didn't hear of anyone hitting the bottom without deserving it by being out of the channel. Rocks don't move, and are on the charts.

Therefore, any grounding you might experience will not be a result of errors in water levels or lack of control.

Go for it!! Have a wonderful trip!

 

[Comodave]

I got curious and found levels for Canal Lake.

https://www.pc.gc.ca/apps/waterlevels/donnees-data?Id=80&lang=en&siteId=100419

In that section they deliberately lower the levels in the winter and spring then bring them up for navigation season. Any fluctuations after that are going to be due to big storms rather than seasonal effects.

We had a problem in Canal Lake, weeds choking the lake and lying on the surface. We could go about 100 yards and then had to stop and give the engines a shot of reverse to clear the props. The day before us a boat got literally stuck in the weeds and couldn’t move. They sent in a tow boat and it burned up their engine. Second tow boat got them out. We met the stuck boat at the last lock before Georgian Bay. They said it was really bad.

 

[Comodave]

YES!

We spent 3 months back and forth on the Trent-Severn in 2023, and will do so again in 2024 (DV), adding the Seaway, Ottawa River, and the Rideau Canal to the trip to make it 5 months.

All official information is going to be a derivative of what Jeff posted. What Captain Michael posted is a case in point.

Some have suggested anecdotal sources of the AGLCA (speeding through on a mission to somewhere) or local Facebook groups (mainly local boaters in runabouts and PWCs blasting into town from cottages for groceries, drinks, and ice cream)



YES!

Flatswing is correct because if you get to know the lock staff they will give you information about what's really going on. It takes them a while to warm up. Some have told me that boaters can get very abusive.

They communicate via cell phone between adjacent locks to give information about traffic expected between locks, and the competency and demeanour of the boats coming through. They have implied that they have a Facebook group that discusses the boats and the reputation of the captains. Get into their good books by giving them respect to get first-hand information. They certainly discuss water levels. Share any info you have about conditions on the waterway and the information gets passed around quickly.

They might invite you into the lock house for coffee in the morning before the lock is officially open. They love hearing about boater experiences in other locks to confirm their own impressions, and compete with one another for their internal reputations and boater appreciation.

They have told me their 3 mandates; water level control for the multitude of dams and waters in the system, customer service, and navigation. We experienced a 4 hour delay at one point, because the water level was out by 6 inches on one of the lakes. We saw less draft than normal at the bridge just east of the entrance to Lake Simcoe, where a small river enters the canal. (there's a warning on the charts) We reported it, and a day later there were survey boats there checking levels. Sometimes a lock can be closed for an hour when the lock staff has to make adjustments to the dams and weirs.

I think the staff does a professional and contentious job, but can't predict and control everything in the waterway all the time. In the 3 months we were on the canal last summer, we didn't hear of anyone hitting the bottom without deserving it by being out of the channel. Rocks don't move, and are on the charts.

Therefore, any grounding you might experience will not be a result of errors in water levels or lack of control.

Go for it!! Have a wonderful trip!

I can’t imagine acting bad towards the staff since they were wonderful when we went through the waterway. Except for one lockmaster every one was awesome. And that lockmaster did have a bad reputation even among the waterway staff. They offered to stop the water flow for us since it was really cranking but we were stopping for the night so I thanked them and declined the offer.

 

[Captain_Michael]

I contacted the Trent-Severn staff at the Waterway website. Received a reply saying they had turned over my query about depth and if it is higher at certain times to the water level specialists. Given the holidays, I do not expect to hear immediately.

I have done the Rideau Canal twice, albeit in the rental boats of LeBoat Company. The lockmasters and assistants were indeed most helpful to transients in every respect.

 

[Barrie]

Winter snow accumulation in Ontario is your guide to success to water levels and traveling the Trent-severn. It is currently raining today. I'm in Ottawa and there is already concerns that the Rideau will not freeze for skating this year.
we traveled the Trent-Severn last year both ways and there were spots where it was shallow. I draw 4 feet.
STAY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MARKERS is your best rule of thumb.
PS I would be interested in your travels down Lake Huron to Lake Erie and beyond. Always wanted to do that.
Barrie

 

[slowgoesit]

I am concerned about the depth in the Waterway because my boat draws 5'6" and the Waterway website says while the draft is 6', if one draws 5'6" or more, one must sign a statement that one recognizes that the depth may be less, necessitating a turn-around. Sort of a message there.

We also draw 5'6". We will be in that neck of the woods in a few years. We would LOVE to cruise the TS waterway, but it's just not in the cards. A few inches more or less can make all the difference in the world . . . .

Question: You say you draw 5'6"? Is that MEASURED draft? Is it manufacturers specs? And, perhaps most important of all, "Is that 5'6" draft in SALT WATER? If so, you will draw more in fresh water.

For our boat, when we are drawing 5'6" (full fuel and otherwise fully loaded as well), we actually draw 5' 8 1/2 inches in FRESH Water. Measured after taking on fuel in Lake Union, WA (fresh water), then heading through the Ballard Locks into SALT water, the draft decreased 2.5" once we were in Salt water, and away from the fresh water outflow from Lake Washington/Lake Union . . . .

For us, 5'6" would have been "IFFY", 5'8.5" would be "NO GO".

 

[Davil1]

I've done the TSW twice but wasn't close to draft limit so little experience w/ problem times / areas. Both times we backtracked through TSW to Lk Ontario.
FYI canal and mooring passes are discounted if purchased before end of March.
2019 was an extreme high water year for the Great Lakes and entering / exiting the 1st / last locks was challenging. Once in the system levels were very well maintained but flows around dams created some abnormal turbulence.
I agree that early season levels should be more predictable as a low precipitation summer can lower levels.
I think I would be contacting the canal authorities to ask how often they have had boaters with draft issues that prevented passage. I understand they will work with boaters to maintain / raise levels in extreme conditions... I'm sure they just don't want to guarantee it so require the sign-off

Another good source might be AGLCA. We certainly observed many vessels looping that Were significantly larger than us.

Georgian Bay is absolutely spectacular cruising ground. We traveled the Inland Small Craft Route from Port Severn to N of Parry Sound. There are a few but limited passages from the open water of GB that connect w/ the small craft route. The narrowest section(s) are the southern route into Parry Sound but even the large tour boats pass through there. It is essential to announce intentions via a "Securite" call on the radio to avoid any passing situations.

Our 2019 cruise log w/ pics is available on my Bacchus website - Cruising Notes - 2019 GB Cruise
The Great Lakes Cruising Club has some very useful & detailed info & localized charts in you want to venture off the marked channels and explore the many beautiful anchorages.

Happy to provide info if you have specific questions.

====================================
Checking your log
wonderful
thank you very much

this lock has a significant drop, is it possible for a single hand in a smaller boat (considering a power boat range 26 to 28 ft)? transit the locks' system?

"Ranney Falls Lk # 11/12"

Have a Cape Dory 30 sailboat and cruise every season, however is not suitable and looking at smaller trawlers/power.

thanks
David

 

[Still Boating]

====================================
Checking your log
wonderful
thank you very much

this lock has a significant drop, is it possible for a single hand in a smaller boat (considering a power boat range 26 to 28 ft)? transit the locks' system?

"Ranney Falls Lk # 11/12"

Have a Cape Dory 30 sailboat and cruise every season, however is not suitable and looking at smaller trawlers/power.

thanks
David

How large the drop is doesn't matter. Usually people for any size boat has a person bow and stern to loop a line around the PVC pipe covered cables that go up the sides of the lock walls. It's all about keeping the boat close to the wall and away from the other boats.

The lock staff will help you, especially if you call ahead, but how do you plan to throw a line and loop it, tie it off, and then go to the other end of the boat and do the same? The staff expects you to be able to release a line at any time if required.

I have given this a lot of thought over the years and have concluded that I wouldn't be able to do it alone, unless I get a PWC if the Admiral goes before I do.

Keep in mind that the greater the length of the boat that has parallel sides the better, and a walk-around rather than having to go through the cabin and up a hatchway to get to the foredeck. For example, the Admiral at the bow likes to attach a line ahead of the forward fender and pull the boat in, this makes the stern of the boat pull away from the lock side, pivoting on the forward fender, while I'm still at the helm positioning the boat and shutting the engine down.

Having said that, there was a couple in their 80's with a 50' boat with fully remote controls like a Drone transiting the Trent-Severn. They positioned the boat and moved it to the lock wall with the thrusters.

And then there are the loopers that position their boats in the locks using only thrusters. pushing all the other boats around. Maybe they don't want to touch the lock walls with their fenders. This really annoys everyone.

 

[Still Boating]

====================================

"Ranney Falls Lk # 11/12"

PS. A double lock isn't a big deal. Once you have moved the height of the first lock, just pretend you are on a lake and about to enter any old lock to enter the second lock. Same thing.

 

[Davil1]

Thank you Still Boating

"

"I have given this a lot of thought over the years and have concluded that I wouldn't be able to do it alone, unless I get a PWC if the Admiral goes before I do."


==========================================
Yes, agree, must recognize need to come to terms with my age related “issues”

Will stick to my trailer power boat plan and do the Georgian Bay.
Locking is no longer feasible,but again, happy can still “keep up boating"


Having said that, there was a couple in their 80's with a 50' boat with fully remote controls like a Drone transiting the Trent-Severn. They positioned the boat and moved it to the lock wall with the thrusters.
=================================
82 y/o noticed had some “issues” locking at the Great Bridge lock this summer and was not fun.

Thanks

PS
Age in itself is just a number.
But, arthritis, hips replacements, balance: are the problems.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. SB. Your post #19: "...loop it, tie it off,..." NOT recommended at all!!!! The line should be looped around the rope and IF wrapped around your cleat, should be able to be removed immediately if necessary. Meaning NO knots, NO loops.
Some lockages can be stopped and/or reversed but others, once the process is started it goes until finished.


I watched a rental houseboat tie hard to the vertical lines, get hung up and end up at about a 40 degree angle to the water. Thankfully the drop was only about 4'. Could have been serious if it had been 8' to 10'.

 

[Still Boating]

Greetings,
Mr. SB. Your post #19: "...loop it, tie it off,..." NOT recommended at all!!!! The line should be looped around the rope and IF wrapped around your cleat, should be able to be removed immediately if necessary. Meaning NO knots, NO loops.
Some lockages can be stopped and/or reversed but others, once the process is started it goes until finished.

Obviously. But that's what you would have to do at one end of the boat if trying to do it single-handed.... Please don't jump to conclusions....

Lockmasters are all over this. They will stop the water drop if there's a problem. In what case can the process not be stopped/reversed? Can you give an example?

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. SB. As I understand it any of the hydraulic locks cannot be stopped once initiated. The manually operated (crab controlled) can be interrupted anywhere in their cycle. I think the set of locks on the Rideau are all manual save Black Rapids and Newboro.
The houseboat incident I mentioned (post #21) occurred at Newboro.

Pretty sure the lock master at Newboro advised me of this "quirk" regarding hydraulics.
Can't remember the differences on the T/S.
I qualify the above and ALL my posts with my memory sucks!

 

[Bacchus]

Fact check...
I know of at least one lock on the TSW (#43 Swift Rapids) that states it can not be reversed once filling or draining has started. Lockmaster here insist on not tieing off lines. This is critical at #43 as it is a 47 ft lift/drop.

I think this is unique to this lock and not common to other locks.
I recommend using cleats for control when locking, especially in winds and turbulent condition but I qualify it to limit use of cleats to only engaging one horn and applying tension for control.... no full wraps and no looping using a criss-crossed line.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. B. You've explained the cleating/looping/slippage/applying tension exercise much better than I attempted to. Thanks.


I've been trying to figure out just how many lockages we've done in our 40+/- years of canal travel and best I can figure is probably close to 1500+ chambers. By far the vast majority have been done on the Rideau. Throw in the St. Lawrence Seaway (HUMONGOUS locks), Ottawa River, Trent-Severn, Erie Canal, across FL several times via the Okeechobee, ICW, Dismal Swamp and probably a few I've forgotten.



Once you've done a few AND taken the advice of the lock masters it becomes quite straightforward.


I remember one of our first transits with our first "big" boat (1950 34' Chris Craft Commander) we locked through with 12 other boats in a chamber. Butt puckering-BIG time.

 

[Cargile]

No mention of cost/fees on this well heeled forum, so..........I went to the TS website and there was a long list of fees for different things. Do they offer an all inclusive pass for a one way transit?

 

[Bacchus]

No mention of cost/fees on this well heeled forum, so..........I went to the TS website and there was a long list of fees for different things. Do they offer an all inclusive pass for a one way transit?

Yes they do offer a one way passage pass.
Also worth repeating... loack and mooring passes bought before end Mar are discounted.5% & 10%... forget which is which but worth considering if planning a summer cruise. Also thecseason passes are good for all systems TSW, Rideau and Chambly.

 

[Bacchus]

RRF... I checked my logs a few years ago and totalled up just under 1,000 lockages.

As I recall about half +/-;were in Canada... Rideau, TSW Chambly and St Lawrence. Balance NY

 

[Comodave]

They also have a season pass for docking at the locks. Don’t remember exactly how much it was. I think the breakeven was about 10 nights or so.

 

[Flatswing]

They also have a season pass for docking at the locks. Don’t remember exactly how much it was. I think the breakeven was about 10 nights or so.

Also, if you miss the presale discounts but are not sure if you need the full season pass, just keep your receipts for each day. If you are within 1 day’s cost of the season pass, present the receipts to the dock master . He/she/ they will happily convert it to a season pass for the difference left. Works for either of the dock pass or season pass.