Tow Boat US boards my boat without my permisiom, knowledge, approval and now wants 9K

[Shaunc]

I had no idea Boat US was a business based on ripping boaters and Insurance companies off.

I am so over business that say we will bill your insurance company so you wont have to pay.
WE ALL PAY FOR THIS!!

I left my boat at a Marco Island Florida marina and flew to Maine for a 5 days over the 4th. During this time it appears as if my original sentry 12v batter charger said no more and died.

It also appears as if my ac line developed a small leak and in the course of the time filled the bilge and I assume, water initially pumped out until batteries died. My high water alarm went off about 24 hrs before I was due to return.

I got a voicemail from the dock master to say the alarms were going off and he will check it out. I then go a second voicemail to say he found high water in the one bilge and he had someone help him pump it out. Maine does not have a lot of great cell coverage.

I called the dockmaster from the airport on the way home and he said it was under control and I would need to pay the person helping him to clean out the bilge. I thanked him and said i would be back on the boat the next afternoon as I was flying back.

It takes about 3-4 shop vac loads to empty the bilge and if i do it myself its about 15 min max. when the high water alarm goes off.
I figured he got one of the dock hands and a few hundred dollars to help as he did not want to run it through the books. They are a full service marina and the oil pit is about 200 yards from where i was docked.

While in the air Tow Boat US leaves me a message stating he had to go onto my boat with a team of guys to remove hazardous contamination water in hazmat suits, gloves and masks and the contaminated fluids had to be disposed at a industrial contamination site. There was a film of oil on top according to the dock master. They are DD 871's that drip a little, so yes there is a oil film on top.

I called they guy pissed as hell, I was asked for my insurance information so he could file a claim for 12K with the insurance company. I told him dont be ridiculous, I never authorized you to do anything on my boat. He then said he would settle for 9K if I gave him the insurance company and if in the chance they did not pay he would work with me to be "reasonable" if I had to pay it myself.

I hung up and called my insurance broker who suggested I put the insurance company on notice as to the incident, which I did. He then said I need to ask the the Tow Boat US owner for a copy of the contract, proof of disposal of the contamination. proof the contamination was a risk to the environment as all the oil/water was in my bilge and CONTAINED in the boat.

The next discussion with Tow Boat US resulted in there being no contract by me or the marina authorizing him to board my boat to perform any work. No proof there was any disposal and no reason as to what hazard the oil/water in my boat posed to anyone or anything. I asked if any spillage booms were deployed and I was told no.

I told him without that I was not going to contact my insurance company with such BS and it is all a scam. He offered to settle directly with me for 5K and I told him there was no way in hell I was going to give him 5K.

He then said he would sue my insurance company and told him to go ahead.

I had heard nothing more about this until I got a letter this week from Tow Boat US Maritime attorneys threatening to sue me for 5K for services performed.

What a @#$^%&* scam, I know maritime law can get quirky, but this is not right.

Has anyone ever dealt with such a scam before?

 

[rwidman]

re: "I had no idea Boat US was a business based on ripping boaters and Insurance companies off."

Well, it is not. You are mistaken.

 

[Don L]

Send the whole thing to your insurance company!

 

[johnrupp]

re: "I had no idea Boat US was a business based on ripping boaters and Insurance companies off."

Well, it is not. You are mistaken.

Although I think I see where you’re going with this statement, would you care to elaborate?

John

 

[Shaunc]

re: "I had no idea Boat US was a business based on ripping boaters and Insurance companies off."

Well, it is not. You are mistaken.

You are welcome to elaborate but I have since spoken to a few folks I know, and most agree its a scam. One contact, who I had no idea actually worked for them about 10 years ago, and he said the entire business model is on billing excessive amounts to insurance companies, knowing they will renegotiate the bill, but it is always excessively high.


He said they always try get any situation into a salvage situation, lending a boat owner a pump for 5 minutes is salvage, they then can charge based off the value of the boat rather for services provided. Most times the boat owner has no idea that he is being scammed until a bill is presented.



Scamming boat owners and then their insurance companies.......


What would you call it then.

 

[TJM]

Unfortunately, it is his word against yours. He could say that if he did not come along the boat would be "submerged". Basically, his intervention saved your boat. He would not be wrong.

 

[jleonard]

Not all TowboatUS companies are the same. I’ve seen vultures who try to claim salvage every time and I’ve seen ones who are more than fair and do what they can to help.

 

[SteveK]

My job involves contractors that bid a job and ask for the deductible amount. Knowing what to expect in cost of repairs I challenge them to justify the bid. The answer is always, when the amount is close to the deductible that we would charge you, we inflate it since insurance will pay the higher amount wihout questions.

 

[jgwinks]

TowBoatUS is a franchise operation. All of the local operators are independent businesses. Like all local businesses, some are really good, others not so much. I worked for a local operator about 20 years ago and for the two or three years I was there, we didn't do one "salvage". There were a couple I thought should have been, but the owner just didn't do those. All cases were billed by time and materials only. Then again he never seemed to have much money and his boats weren't in great shape, so maybe he was "too honest".

 

[psneeld]

The OP is just POed because he is a boater that really doesn't know all the ins and outs of boating.

The advice on different franchise operations is accurate. And yes many even legit operations charge top dollar when they can because all too often they DO have to sue and pay lawyers to recover money that IS fairly earned.

The PO will be lucky if he doesn't get hit with a way higher bill than the $5K he might have gotten away with.

For all he may know but didn't mention it, that if the USCG was notified that a tiny sheen from the bilge pump (when it was working) may have been all that was necessary for them to contact BoatUS to go aboard and secure the source of pollution. That alone can carry a huge fine so yes.... I would be calling my insurance company to clear up the obvious misunderstanding.

 

[Comodave]

But if the CG fines you for oil spillage that fine isn’t covered by insurance. And they can be hefty fines. Better to spend a few bucks for oil absorbing pads.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. S. So what's the issue here? YOU have the oily bilge, the leaking engine and the sinking boat. The dock master IMO acted quite responsibly in attempting save YOUR boat and to mitigate oil pollution from YOUR boat. HE would be on the hook to the CG IF he had not done something about it. He not only saved your boat he may have saved you a hefty fine as well.


Might be "Tow Boat US" is the dock master's "go to" in the event of a potential pollution event. Never had to use tow services yet but ANY tow boats I've observed appear to be professionals at their trade.



As suggested, put it in the hands of your insurance company. THEY know what questions to ask to ascertain scamming. I'm fairly sure they deal with this sort of stuff all day long.

 

[psneeld]

But if the CG fines you for oil spillage that fine isn’t covered by insurance. And they can be hefty fines. Better to spend a few bucks for oil absorbing pads.

What? Last few insurance policies I had covered environmental damages to the tune of over $900K. Not having spill insurance would be insane considering cleanup and disposal costs.

https://www.unitedmarine.net/boat_insurance/fuel-spill-pollution-coverage.aspx

Pollution has always been covered under the liability section of boat insurance policies. In recent years we have seen boat insurance companies providing a separate limit for Pollution/Fuel Spill coverage. Most companies do not make pollution/fuel spill coverage dependent on a covered loss, but some do. This is an important difference.

We have one market that provides a separate limit of $800,000 and does not make it a requirement to be a covered claim.

We have one market that does not provide a separate limit. They provide coverage within the liability limit and will increase the pollution/fuel spill to the legal limit of $939,800 if your liability limit is lower. This is not the same as having a separate limit, having a separate limit is best. This market does not make it required that it be a covered loss.

 

[tiltrider1]

This is an interesting legal situation. I am not sure how maritime law works in this situation. I would contact a maritime attorney on this. There is a very good one who writes for The Log newspaper out of San Diego.

The boat owner did not contract with the Tow Boat for services. Saying the boat would have sunk is not proof and does not give the tow company any rights. The marina appears to have contracted the services of the Tow Boat and would be obligated to pay the bill. What recourse they have against the tenant can only be determined by reading the moorage contract.

Since we can’t read the contract we really can’t comment on where this argument might go.

I don’t believe anyone can use salvage rules in this case.

 

[SeaDogAK]

Absolutely put your insurance company on notice. You pay insurance premiums to protect yourself from claims. If they sue somebody, they won’t be suing your insurance company, they’ll be suing you.

 

[Fletcher500]

I am not going to comment about a specific case I know nothing about. Also, people slamming others on the internet for perceived transgressions is not my cup of tea. With that said, I have had nothing but good interactions with both Boat US and Sea Tow in my area. I have personally witnessed, and heard them on the VHF save many peoples bacon over the years.

 

[Comodave]

What? Last few insurance policies I had covered environmental damages to the tune of over $900K. Not having spill insurance would be insane considering cleanup and disposal costs.

https://www.unitedmarine.net/boat_insurance/fuel-spill-pollution-coverage.aspx

Pollution has always been covered under the liability section of boat insurance policies. In recent years we have seen boat insurance companies providing a separate limit for Pollution/Fuel Spill coverage. Most companies do not make pollution/fuel spill coverage dependent on a covered loss, but some do. This is an important difference.

We have one market that provides a separate limit of $800,000 and does not make it a requirement to be a covered claim.

We have one market that does not provide a separate limit. They provide coverage within the liability limit and will increase the pollution/fuel spill to the legal limit of $939,800 if your liability limit is lower. This is not the same as having a separate limit, having a separate limit is best. This market does not make it required that it be a covered loss.

The pollution insurance covers cleanup and mitigation but if you are fined it doesn’t cover the fines. At least that is what mine says.

 

[psneeld]

https://www.charlesriverinsurance.c...g-boat-insurance-for-my-boat-in-massachusetts

"Fuel spill liability coverage generally protects boaters from these potential expenses. If a boater spills fuel or oil, this coverage might help pay any associated cleanup costs, environmental costs, legal fines and court fees the policyholder is faced with."

I guess read your policy and upgrade if necessary. My experience shows that as long as the spill wasnt intentional and you acted to mitigate and insurance pays for the cleanup...you probably won't be fined anyhow.

 

[sunchaser]

SC
Your insurance company may not be too happy. I can hear them now -----

"So you left your AC running while you were away from the boat for a week or so. The boat was unattended during this period. The faulty AC piping was leaking. The bilge pump malfunctioned. The marina didn't want a sinking or pollution issue. They requested professional help. Help arrived and took care of the owner negligence issue."

Me. I'd not inform my insurance company and just pay the charges. Marine insurers in FL are looking for the slightest of reasons to cancel policies.

 

[SteveK]

SC
Your insurance company may not be too happy. I can hear them now -----

"So you left your AC running while you were away from the boat for a week or so. The boat was unattended during this period. The faulty AC piping was leaking. The bilge pump malfunctioned. The marina didn't want a sinking or pollution issue. They requested professional help. Help arrived and took care of the owner negligence issue."

Me. I'd not inform my insurance company and just pay the charges. Marine insurers in FL are looking for the slightest of reasons to cancel policies.

The OP said cell service where he went is spotty. Suppose the marina made even just one call which was unanswered, if there is a record of that incomplete call then I am sure your laws will allow boarding on your behalf.

 

[BruceK]

A service provider who starts at 12K, drops to 9K and to 5K when challenged raises eyebrows. Especially where the amount they now claim is the 5K.

You might have a problem, you seem to have acquiesced in paying whoever was doing the work after making incorrect assumptions about what was being done and by who.
What does your Marina contract say about paying people they call in and their authority to call in trades in an emergency?
Was Seatow the right contractor to call in on this occasion?
I suspect you do have a liability, but how much.Your boat was pumping out oily water until the pumps ran out of power. Think about your relationship with the Marina. If you end up saying they engaged the wrong people at the wrong price they may not want you there anymore.

 

[psneeld]

Not atypical for an assistance tower to drop significant amounts when the client balks at the charges. I have seen my 2 different bosses do it often enough to know it is worth mentioning.

On the other hand if it goes to arbitration, it can come back to haunt the client if there was enough inferred negligence that could have ballooned way past the circumstances had the marina and assistance tower not have gotten involved.

 

[O C Diver]

There are two sides to every story.

I would contact the company and say if you have no proof of cleanup materials, hazardous disposal of contaminated materials, or authorization or contract from myself, marina, marine police or USCG, I will make you an offer of $2,500 with a signed invoice indicating that is the total compensation for whatever you may have done.

I see the owner somewhat culpable ( a simple alarm system would have notified you by text or email to the battery voltage diminishing or the bilge pump being activated) for the chain of events. IMO, I would rather make it go away without the insurance company canceling my policy, raising my rates, or requiring an out of water insurance survey.

Ted

 

[Insequent]

There are two sides to every story.

I would contact the company and say if you have no proof of cleanup materials, hazardous disposal of contaminated materials, or authorization or contract from myself, marina, marine police or USCG, I will make you an offer of $2,500 with a signed invoice indicating that is the total compensation for whatever you may have done.

I see the owner somewhat culpable ( a simple alarm system would have notified you by text or email to the battery voltage diminishing or the bilge pump being activated) for the chain of events. IMO, I would rather make it go away without the insurance company canceling my policy, raising my rates, or requiring an out of water insurance survey.

Ted

My thoughts as well. Reading the first post I could not help thinking the boat is poorly maintained or at the very least has a backlog of deferred maintenance items. That can happen all too easily, and all too often. It is after all a fairly sizeable boat to maintain.

I see Ted's suggestion as a pragmatic solution to the immediate issue. But I would then get an insurance survey carried out to identify any other things that need attention. Report is just for OP, no-one else. Get anything found fixed. There may be none, but next time the OP needs to leave the boat for a week there would be a lot more peace of mind.

 

[luna]

"Fuel spill liability coverage generally protects boaters from these potential expenses. If a boater spills fuel or oil, this coverage might help pay any associated cleanup costs, environmental costs, legal fines and court fees the policyholder is faced with."

Don't underestimate the ability of the underwriter to deny a claim. They have had lots of experience with claims and have teams of lawyers writing the insurance policy to remain legal, but weighted heavily in their favor.

The 500 lb. gorilla in the room is the word "might" in the above clause.
It implies that conditions exist on the coverage.

My underwriter, LLoyds, requires you to "Use reasonable care in the maintenance of the vessel."
Is an absent owner, a leaking engine, a failed original charger and a ruptured AC line all at the same time, "reasonable care"? I would not expect to win that argument.
Only once that hurdle is passed will my underwriter pay for the cost of the clean up/spill mitigation.

With respect to the fines for beaching pollution laws, my underwriter will pay, but (there are always conditions) the pollution cause must be "accidental or caused by your crew's independent, deliberate actions or omissions."

Let's conclude that you, like me, have no crew.
Is the leaking Detroit and the ruptured hose (the source of the pollution) an accident or failure to use reasonable care? Again, a tough argument to win.

Further, the fact that the contractor initially requested $12k. if paid by the underwriter, but would settle for $5k from you (and sued you for the $5k) speaks to the integrity of the operator, nothing else.

There is a cost in dealing with insurers, likely about 15%. Why wouldn't the contractor charge the underwriter something like $5.75k?
An upcharge of 240% simply means that the contractor knows full well that the underwriter has no time to deal with these small claims and will more than likely pay the bill to make it go away. They are looking for a windfall.
Meanwhile the underwriter will simply increase your future insurance rates so they get their money back, plus some.
You pay in the end regardless, it's just a matter of how much.

The contractor has all but admitted that the legitimate bill, including legal fees is $5k as that is the value of the suit. To believe otherwise would mean that to recover their cost, a profit and pay their lawyers pales in comparison to the cost to deal with underwriters, (likely where they get a good portion of their revenue) to the tune of 240%

I would move to settle this issue without my underwriters involvement.
You pay the deductible anyway.

Then fix the leaks, change the hoses, get a new charger and move on.

 

[Comodave]

https://www.charlesriverinsurance.c...g-boat-insurance-for-my-boat-in-massachusetts

"Fuel spill liability coverage generally protects boaters from these potential expenses. If a boater spills fuel or oil, this coverage might help pay any associated cleanup costs, environmental costs, legal fines and court fees the policyholder is faced with."

I guess read your policy and upgrade if necessary. My experience shows that as long as the spill wasnt intentional and you acted to mitigate and insurance pays for the cleanup...you probably won't be fined anyhow.

Fuel Spill Coverage

Pollution has always been covered under the liability section of boat insurance policies. In recent years we have seen boat insurance companies providing a separate limit for Pollution/Fuel Spill coverage. Most companies do not make pollution/fuel spill coverage dependent on a covered loss, but some do. This is an important difference.


Check out the last line.


We have one market that provides a separate limit of $800,000 and does not make it a requirement to be a covered claim.

We have one market that does not provide a separate limit. They provide coverage within the liability limit and will increase the pollution/fuel spill to the legal limit of $939,800 if your liability limit is lower. This is not the same as having a separate limit, having a separate limit is best. This market does not make it required that it be a covered loss.

We have a market that includes pollution in the liability limit and they do make it a requirement that it be from a covered loss.

Another interesting point regarding fuel spill coverage is that most insurance companies do not pay fines or penalties.

 

[psneeld]

I can't be sure, but the two "markets" being referred to may be the difference between a "yacht policy" and "boat policy".

I would be interested in what an insurance pro or maritime lawyer has to say on the matter

I did just read this when I just got a new policy for my new skiff...

"Progressive pays for fuel spills, no matter how the spill happened: sunken boat, leaking tank, or a mishap at the fueling station.

Example: Your boat sinks in a nature reserve and the government issues you a fine-claiming your fuel spill threatens marine life and makes the water unsanitary. Progressive will pay the fine up to your policy’s limits."

Progressive advertises they are the largest USA boat insurer.... if that isn't a tangle of numbers to mislead us. But that printed statement would make it pretty hard to wriggle out of paying something.

 

[ranger58sb]

It takes about 3-4 shop vac loads to empty the bilge and if i do it myself its about 15 min max. when the high water alarm goes off.
I figured he got one of the dock hands and a few hundred dollars to help as he did not want to run it through the books. They are a full service marina and the oil pit is about 200 yards from where i was docked.

I'd have maybe guessed a bilge full of water in a Hatt 53 MY might be a bazillion gallons or so? Nothing like "3-4 shop vac loads"?

Were the engines covered, at some point? Carpeting in living quarters wet?

-Chris

 

[Shaunc]

Thanks for all the response and great info.


Just to fill in a few blanks.....


My insurance was issued July 1st 2023 after a survey where the boat was found to be " condition is well above boats of similar age and is meticulous maintained" in the words of the surveyor.


The dock master and the live aboard neighbor said there was zero evidence of any spillage or sheen in the water as I asked them and there was no coast guard report. There was also zero chance of the boat sinking. The way my bilges work is that if thr one gets to high. the water will seep into the other engine bilge and that was dry and clean so no chance of sinking. TBUS agreed the boat was not sinking or in any danger of sinking.



My bilges have drip pan under the motors with oil rags and this is where the sheen/oil on the water came from.



yes, what are the chances of a battery charge failure and a dripping ac pipe at the same time. Been boating 45 years and yes, crazy stuff happens. the transformer on sentry battery charger fried and was unforeseen.


The dock master was horrified when he heard the cost and was so apologetic as he said he had no idea what the cost would be. He agreed there was no danger of the boat sinking or anything like that and shut down the ac that caused the high water alarm so there was no chance of the problem getting worse.


He said he should have left it for me to deal with as he knew my return dates. its a transient marina we have used for the past 5 years and we know each other and have a history with them. He just wanted to make sure the ac was the problem and that's why he decided to remove the water.



It was my hope that someone might have had to deal with something similar and have some advice to pass on.


Yes, I can contact my insurance company but then thats what TBUS wants so he can extort me and my insurance company and this type of practice is just so wrong on all accounts. We all end up paying for this and its not okay.

 

[Shaunc]

I'd have maybe guessed a bilge full of water in a Hatt 53 MY might be a bazillion gallons or so? Nothing like "3-4 shop vac loads"?

Were the engines covered, at some point? Carpeting in living quarters wet?

-Chris

Thats true but my high water alarm is set well below max levels. its set to 3-4 shop vac loads.