Stopping disaster boat porn

[psneeld]

PS you’re absolutely right my sample size is extremely small. However with in that small sample the problematic individuals are way over represented by that group. Now when reviewing and vetting I discount what formal certificates prospective crew have paying more attention to their experience, supporting personal endorsements and direct discussion with them and the references they list. Some of my best crew has been professional mariners such as yourself, prior naval officers and other prior government employees. My go to guy ran fire boats in NY harbor. Close friend ran mega yachts (not deliver but full time). When he’s on my boat he’s captain and I’m crew.
I have not been licensed for over 20y so currently am not licensed. I never worked as a professional mariner. Self attested seatime doesn’t carry the weight that is allowed for lower levels. I’m honest and strict when I was keeping my log. Also when others signed off my seatime. I wonder about others. I have the utmost respect for professional mariners. I was referencing a segment of US captains within a level of captaincy. They are not representative of the group at large. This is a quite distinct group.
Yes good training captains are worth every penny. Unfortunately not all are. Watching and spending time with someone even briefly may tell you more about whether things will work out then a piece of paper.

You routinely use 100T if I recall the usual captain slam posting.

Lower level licenses make up a huge segment of the pro captain fleet.

You almost have to be a pro mariner from the beginning to work you way up to upper levels unless you go through an academy or extensive outside training.

Up to 100 can be obtained through one of the captain mills that abound in the country.

The type of captains I believe you had experiences with and correct me if I am wrong...are not the type that wind up being the backbone of the commercial fleets and are in and out of jobs for various reasons. Usually the same faults you mention are the reasons they don't stay long or last long in a lot of jobs I have worked. The part timers at big dealerships and a lot of delivery guys or wannabe charter guys seem to have littered my existence.

 

[Vanessa]

As a woman who boats and (sometimes, compulsively) watches boating disaster videos, I offer this perspective: observing a worst-case scenario can actually help my confidence. I mean, my single-handed docking may not be pretty on occasion but there's some comfort and amusement in comparing it to others' disastrous attempts.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. (Dr.) H. Re-direction! Your better 3/4 went from obsessing about blue water disasters to near shore/on shore disasters. Maybe if you casually suggest your new abode needs re-decorating. Please see this thread:
https://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/i-hate-hgtv-62906.html
Gently nudge her over to "Oh, my love, I'm thinking we need to paint the master berth a calming pink with grey highlights. What do you think of this..."

Dirt house image but I'm sure you understand my reasoning.

 

[mvweebles]

Usually the same faults you mention are the reasons they don't stay long or last long in a lot of jobs I have worked. The part timers at big dealerships and a lot of delivery guys or wannabe charter guys seem to have littered my existence.

You're right - the issue is there are a ton of passionate dock-siders who finagle an OUPV license. Don't get me wrong, successfully passing the exam is no small feat and it really augments your knowledge, but it's not experience. For anyone who's ever been a hiring manager, my guess is a University diploma was not the only cred you examined. Heck, hire a babysitter and I'll guess you made some referene calls. Yet all too often, people seem willing to let someone deliver their boat showing nothing more than bravado and a ticket.

But back to the topic.....

My wife and I are only now re-entering cruising. Yes, we've taken some decent runs over the past few years, but we are dang rusty. She especially has trepidation. We had planned on 'going out the Golden Gate and turning left' in 2004, before I got a killer job offer and set aside cruising and delivering (it's been a great career - no regrets). We're now older and not as nimble. She especially worries the time may have passed her by to enjoy cruising. Me? I'm ready to head to Panama and up the Caribbean. So we'll find a happy medium, but will have to figure it out for both of us. The good news is we both just enjoy being on the water, both enjoy long spells on the water. She's wary about multi-day runs but is much more agreeable if we have a third person for long runs. On the plus side, we've owned the boat for 23-years and my wife is well-bonded with the boat. She has a lot of confidence in Weebles and believes in her marrow that Wm Garden walks on water and has designed the ultimate safety pod just for her. She's convinced that Garden's hull is a whale's and can conquer the seven seas. Who am I to correct her?

I would think that as the OP's wife develops familiarity with their new boat, her experience will awaken and she'll bond with the boat, come to know her idosyncracies, etc. If needed, you can always put a big list in your boat by pressing the tanks - instead of a list, you can call it a heel.

Good luck Hippocampus.

Peter

 

[psneeld]

If you gonna watch Youtube...watch the complete newbies and not so bright ones at that that buy their first boat and take off around the world...or at least the loop or even just down island. SUCCESSFULLY!!!!!

Blows my mind but goes to show you a little luck can go a long way....

 

[Hippocampus]

Thanks PS and Peter. Once again there’s a difference between the two groups you mentioned. Even in the part time or after retirement group there’s definitely excellent people. Glad we sorted it out.

Last go round “time wounds all heels” was the cure. Just wanted to shorten the process.

Found several things make our boat not my boat.
Make a short list of boats you want. Let her have the final pick of which one.
Bizarrely having her do some of the maintenance with me as the helper has increased her sense of ownership.
Train together. To the extent possible have us have the same skills.
Let her pick all the decor. My only intervention was to limit the number of decorative pillows. That idea has great merit so thanks for the reminder . Already had her pick out the new flooring and she’s excited about getting it in. We’ve had a rule our whole marriage. Whoever cooks the other one cleans. So the galley equipment is by mutual consent.
I’m going to try to use disaster porn as a teaching moment. That’s a great idea!! Thanks.

 

[mvweebles]

Thinking back, Cheryll and I were both pretty active in the TrawlerFest shows before PMM. I was a hired-hand, but she also did a few presentations and attended several. At that time, TrawlerFest had some decent woman-centric seminars and events. I know, it sounds a bit condescending, but it helped. On the east coast shows many of the cruisers were Loopers. Cheryll quickly figured out how much she knew in comparison. Not a competition thing, but she realized she knew a lot, and people with less knowledge were having a great time. She also got some great tips from other women such as, when anchoring, the male should be on the foredeck handling the anchor, wife should be at the helm.

Hippocampus, the little I know of you, my hunch is you're probably not the TrawlerFest type of person, but you may want to look at some of the seminars and consider going. I haven't been to one in a looong time and I am not a joiner at all (and they have changed since PMM took over), but they were definitely fun and was great to see people at all levels of experience. The MTOA has some sort of Rendezvous coming up in a few weeks that is likely more casual. Finally, someone on TrawlerForum occasionally volunteers to organize a meet-and-great. I would think these would all be places to light-touch meet people. Much as I'm not a joiner, I wish I had thought of it earlier - I think it might be a good idea for Cheryll and I.

Peter

 

[FWT]

If you gonna watch Youtube...watch the complete newbies and not so bright ones at that that buy their first boat and take off around the world...or at least the loop or even just down island. SUCCESSFULLY!!!!!

Blows my mind but goes to show you a little luck can go a long way....

^^^ This

A year or so ago I watched a YouTube of a couple who bought a very old and rough small boat and set off from FL for the Loop. The only navigation aid they had was a free app with chart on a phone. Less than an hour off the dock their wooden bowsprit / roller broke off. They proceeded, proudly saying nothing would hold them back.

No clue if they survived the week.

 

[BandB]

Wifey B:

Chiming in.....

Someone above hit the key word, CONFIDENCE.

While you can build some as a passenger, you build a lot more as a driver.

If I was an Admiral (term I hate but if she likes it, that's fine) then I'd never feel like I do as a Captain.

Don't convince, talk, coerce, but encourage her to train. Lessons. Any kind of lessons. These courses offered at various places. Much of boating can be scary if you don't really understand it. My first time in rough water was so revealing but I left knowing the boat was far more capable than I knew and I was far more capable. Compared to the blue water sailing, this seems like nothing, but it's something big that you likely minimize, it's big because it's the unknown.

When she's looking at some of the disasters, you might look with her and explain why that won't happen to you, what your preventative measure is. What they did wrong that you will not.

I would ease her into the gentlest of trips before the more adventurous.

 

[BruceK]

Take a look at Boat Master game. An opportunity to handle a boat at close quarters with no risk of actual damage.
You would need to decide first if it will help or hinder. I appreciate you have a serious problem,I guess it`s only raised directly now as what must have been a potential concern becoming an impending reality. Good luck confronting it.
Another thought, is there anyone on TF who would be the effective adviser/confidante there was in the sailboat situation. I can think of several TF members who could fill that role.

 

[Benthic2]

I'd start with a high level discussion about what Youtube is. Its a way to sell eyeballs. The very essence of an entertaining video is that it conveys an uncommon event. That's why people watch it!! No one is going to click on a video titled "boring walk in the park". The more popular the video is, the less common the event.

Then pick a low risk hobby she enjoys like biking, skiing, excercise, or going to the pool, and do a Youtube search for "biking fails", or "Pool Fails" ( there are even "gardening fails" videos ) Watch them for 15 minutes and ask if she is suddenly reluctant to go to the pool, or work in the garden? It will quickly become obvious that all the people who manage to do someting "youtube-worthy" around a pool have certain traits in common that I doubt you share.

Another point you could make, is that just because a hundred peopole fail at something that a gazillion people succeed at doesn't mean its dangerous. You can watch passenger plane mishaps all day long if you want, but flying is very safe. If she is statistically inclined point out that because of your demographics you are less likely than average to have a mishap. All of the following make you less likely to have an accident in a car: Age, education, marital status, credit rating, experience. I would guess you check most of those boxes so an accident for anyone is a rare event, and for you guys it will be even more rare.

There are also instructional videos of how to dock in various situations. Those may reinforce the skills and knowledge she already has.

Then....as the final hail mary........point out that you dock at low speed, people rarely get hurt and you have insurance.

 

[mvweebles]

I think the missing link in many if these responses is she has something akin to 30k sea miles, majority being offshore. Thars a lot of miles. Circle the globe mileage .

Her challenge isnt boat related per se. Its probably related to gap in cruising time, transition from sail to power, and transition from offshore to coastal. That type of experience often breeds a very conservative approach. Women tend to be more risk averse about safety stuff (my wife says thats why women outlive men on average ).

In short, this is NOT the typical "my spouse doesnt like boating" thread.

Peter

 

[FWT]

There is a reason its men who are featured in "hold my beer and watch this" clips

 

[Miz Trom]

Lee:

Something else for you to consider.

First, please ignore the minority sexist opinions on this thread that completely disregard women who have decades of boating experience and were born with a mariner's love for the sea.

You are a doctor. I can only guess at your age, but knowing you are retired, I would guess both you and your wife are over 65.

Your beloved wife has over 30k miles of boating under her belt. She is not a boating novice by any definition, and I suspect, may be a mariner at heart.

I am six years younger than my extraordinary Hubby Dan. He is in his seventies now. I have observed an ongoing, slowly persistent decline in his cognitive abilities.

I am the original mariner in our marriage. Dan has been enthusiastically along for the ride since we met 40 years ago. About 20 years ago he also developed a genuine love of boating.


But he doesn't NEED to be on the water like I do.


If your marriage is anything like ours, and from your comments I think it is, it would be impossible for Hubby Dan to tell me directly that he has aged out of boating if I were making plans for our next boating adventure.

Both Dan and I only want whatever makes our better half happy... this means we want to be with our spouse wherever they are, no matter what it takes.

It is obvious from your posting history that you are a kind man. Please communicate more with your spouse. She may be done with cruising.

Sincere and Warm Regards,
Mrs. Pea Trombley

 

[Hippocampus]

Miz Throm thanks for your kind words. As with all life decisions we had that chat. When it became apparent she was unsafe on the foredeck after falling off the prior boat when it was on the hard we had several weeks of concentrated talks about future plans.
Tour different countries by air, rail and car.
Tour this one by RV.
Get a second house in a warmer climate for winters.
Give up cruising but get a less complicated boat and keep it locally.
Switch to power and continue cruising. The hard decision was coastal or ocean. It wasn’t whether to continue to cruise.
She chose cruising on power.
Although we both have minor limitations from orthopedic issues we remain basically intact. Her balance is slightly off from her fractured ankle. I have minor osteoarthritis in the digits of my hands and in my left knee/ankle from a fall when rock climbing. A very rare hit of the Motrin suffices for both of us. However both of us are cognitively intact. Believe both of us remain smarter than the average bear.
Key element is this behavior is emotional. She was a seasonal live aboard on a converted Novie hull while she was in grade and high school spending her summers in Martha’s Vineyard and the Elizabethians. But went through the same stuff when we got our first sailboat together (I had many before). Then again when we went off internationally cruising. And now with coastal power. Each time takes about a year of the activity for it to dissipate. Just looking for advice as to how to shorten the time

 

[mvweebles]

. But went through the same stuff when we got our first sailboat together (I had many before). Then again when we went off internationally cruising. And now with coastal power. Each time takes about a year of the activity for it to dissipate. Just looking for advice as to how to shorten the time

I'm a year from knowing if it worked, but my approach to my wife has been to reduce a 4000 nm cruise into digestible chunks of hopefully fun stuff. Mind you, we have cruised a big chunk of the US/Baja coastline and had a great time, so she's not a rank novice here either.

I crafted the attached chartlet to highlight recognizable locations with inland travel potential (we've always wanted to go to Oaxaca); and to minimize multi-day passages. I know it looks ambitious, and it is, but not overly so given our experience levels. While not totally bought-in, my wife is interested in this. Shes not interested in the leg from Panama to Florida which is fine - not sure I am either (wx sucks and geopolitical risk limits options). Can certainly ship from somewhere down there.

So once we get the boat finalized and moving, we'll hang around Ensenada and cruise locally up to the Channel Islands (150 nms north). Another option is to do the Sea of Cortez as that's perceived as a bit more controlled cruising. Plenty of remote anchorages off small villages with good tacos. If the cruising spirit catches fire, we'll head south and meander. If it doesn't catch fire, I'll do a slow-deliver/fast-cruise to Florida with a friend.

At any rate, that's been my approach thus far. Very low key with her. Focus has been on getting the boat refit, and being open to her concerns. In the end, as hard as the refit has been, it's a magic carpet for our lifestyle. We both want roughly the same thing - hanging out on the water. We just need to find a happy place for the time/distance/location between anchorages.

Peter

 

[Hippocampus]

Have a great time Peter. A man with a plan. Brilliant!!!

 

[psneeld]

The go for it crowd, me included sometimes, has always said coastal cruising or looping is usually nothing more than a bunch of day trips strung together, best done without a schedule but a flexible one can certainly be done safely with the right planning and experience.

Therefore not really beyond the capabilities of even pretty novice boaters. As long as they set stricter limits.

 

[mvweebles]

Have a great time Peter. A man with a plan. Brilliant!!!

More of a framework than a plan

The more I thought about your OP, the more I realized my wife and I were quietly having similar discussions (not really challenges). What seemed like a boat and time constraint a couple years ago has morphed into something different that I still can't put my finger on it. But it's something we'll do together.

Thanks for the post Hippocampus. Its been helpful for me too. I look forward to seeing how you and your wife evolve.

Peter

 

[SteveK]

I am wondering if the gyro on the boat was oversold. Making it seem mandatory. What IF it stops working, will we die. I know it is a comfort device for smoother ride, but the boat can handle the water without it, the ride is less comfortable.

 

[Solly]

Watch the videos together. Talk about what's going on. Compare how they do things in the video with how you guys do things. And why THAT will never happen to you guys. Sometimes just sitting together and talking things over can ease the fears. At the very least you'll know what worries each other. And it's OK to have worries.

Make sure your boat handling is impeccable b-4 you both go out. Get to know the new boats handling characteristics. In and out of the slip or dock a bunch of times and different approaches.

Praise and more praise when things go well. Builds confidence !! And things will go well !!

 

[Hippocampus]

Good post Solly. Totally agree.

Soo- she’s been in innumerable line squalls, thunderstorms, and even several multi day gales. She’s no stranger to heavy weather. Having that experience and being the one to go forward to free a line or check a lashing in such conditions is why we stopped ocean passage making after she broke her ankle.
We’ve had one long hop with the new boat (R.I. to VA straight shot). The genset wasn’t working so no SeaKeeper. It wasn’t an issue beyond deciding to use the C&D instead of going outside. Motion isn’t an issue for her although we did stay inside instead of up on the flybridge but that was more for warmth than motion.
However the SK is simply amazing. In 3-4’ put down a open cup and it stays there without spilling or moving. Soo have you ever experienced one?
Actually my concern is that it works so well we’ll go out when we shouldn’t or stay out. The sailboat was fine in a strong gale. This boat isn’t. I’ve gotten my head around that. My concern is with it running we’ll have less perception of degrading conditions. Hubris kills more people than clear thinking. One of the reasons I chose a NT is they have a good reputation for sloppy conditions but they aren’t voyaging boats.

 

[SteveK]

HC, I realize the two of you have been through more than most. But something in the new boat style is a cause for her concern. Like others, looking for a clue.
Having been in rough weather in both type of vessels, I would prefer a boat with fin and mast for the area of your planned travel.
I have not had a stabilizer, I am sure it does soften the ride.

 

[North Baltic sea]

Hi Hippocampus,


My wife said NT is our easiest boat to moor, move in the boat and at sea in rough weather. The previous 2 boats sail and one 40 'planer and NT is definitely the easiest to handle.

I agree when we bought the boat, so the test drive was the only experience with the new boat, before about 600nm transfer trip across the Baltic Sea with a single hand and I was glad how easy it was to do the work at the moor with a long side or med.

The long keel is a great help when the wind from the side, the bow and stern truser makes it so easy to control, the big propeller and rudder give a good prop walk.

Everything goes great when you keep the speed to a minimum maneuver.

Happy tuging!

NBs

 

[Bacchus]

Watch the videos together. Talk about what's going on. Compare how they do things in the video with how you guys do things. And why THAT will never happen to you guys. Sometimes just sitting together and talking things over can ease the fears. At the very least you'll know what worries each other. And it's OK to have worries.

Make sure your boat handling is impeccable b-4 you both go out. Get to know the new boats handling characteristics. In and out of the slip or dock a bunch of times and different approaches.

Praise and more praise when things go well. Builds confidence !! And things will go well !!

Great advice
We have grabbed a refreshment and chair in the afternoon an watched others handle and dock their boats. Watching and observing/ discussing +/- together is a very good, relaxing way to learn w/o any pressure, excitement, etc.
Those incidents make good references as reminders to stay away from taking comments too personal.
Identifying high priority fears and developing a plan to overcome them is also helpful... is it lack of knowledge? Need practice actually doing something? Or knowing when to use a certain technique?

 

[Hippocampus]

Found what’s miserable about sporty weather is fatigue. First you go OMG. Then ‘it’s not so bad…the boats doing great”. Then you’re pissed everything is so hard to do. Going to the head, making a meal, dressing/undressing, moving about. Then you’re dragging your butt and just want it stop. Won’t miss that. Unless I have at least one day more of reasonable weather than expected transit time we ain’t leaving. Totally different mindset than prior where even with the best weather router once you got beyond 5 days it’s a crapshoot. We’re going coastal not ocean. We firmly believe “schedules kill”.
Ocean you see wind waves on top of swell. But coastal you see chop. Find short period chop annoying even though it’s not dangerous.

 

[BandB]

Miz Throm thanks for your kind words. As with all life decisions we had that chat. When it became apparent she was unsafe on the foredeck after falling off the prior boat when it was on the hard we had several weeks of concentrated talks about future plans.
Tour different countries by air, rail and car.
Tour this one by RV.
Get a second house in a warmer climate for winters.
Give up cruising but get a less complicated boat and keep it locally.
Switch to power and continue cruising. The hard decision was coastal or ocean. It wasn’t whether to continue to cruise.
She chose cruising on power.
Although we both have minor limitations from orthopedic issues we remain basically intact. Her balance is slightly off from her fractured ankle. I have minor osteoarthritis in the digits of my hands and in my left knee/ankle from a fall when rock climbing. A very rare hit of the Motrin suffices for both of us. However both of us are cognitively intact. Believe both of us remain smarter than the average bear.
Key element is this behavior is emotional. She was a seasonal live aboard on a converted Novie hull while she was in grade and high school spending her summers in Martha’s Vineyard and the Elizabethians. But went through the same stuff when we got our first sailboat together (I had many before). Then again when we went off internationally cruising. And now with coastal power. Each time takes about a year of the activity for it to dissipate. Just looking for advice as to how to shorten the time

Wifey B: Our emotions change over time and as we age. I say that although I try so hard to deny any aging personally. I feel things today in ways I didn't and couldn't ten and fifteen years ago. Most of it is good, but it can't all be. Hubby and I have recently felt pain from the realization we couldn't compete with teenagers on the basketball court like we could a few years ago. But it's also in how we perceive things. As life shortens, each venture is a larger part of our remaining life. I was recently moved by the wedding of my daughter who didn't even come into my life until she was 18, less than 9 years ago.

I'll make one more suggestion to consider. Make the cruising more about some of the destinations, more about what you can enjoy together from the water, places you'll go, things you'll do, many things life once was too hurried for you to enjoy. Make cruising a vital part of your life, but one of many focuses.

Now, consider this also happening at some point along the way. One of you lying to the other about how you feel toward certain things. Not lying intentionally, but lying to the other because one is lying to oneself. Confusion reigns often in life. Can we admit we don't have the same desires we've always had? I know personally I have so many passions in life, it's hard to place one vs. the other. It can change from day to day. Would I rather go play tennis or go to our music room and sing for a few hours? Would I rather go kayaking or swimming? How long can I stand to cruise and be away from family at home? My niece, Aurora, lives next door now and it's only been a week but I sure miss her and have it on my calendar I'll see her on April 27 but sure do look forward to school letting out for the summer. Somehow it became more difficult to leave home when they moved from SC to next door. Thank goodness for webcams. We all tend to pretend nothing is changing and yet it is every day. Then add in the last two years of Pandemic and the war in the Ukraine and all the shootings taking place still. Our emotions are frayed and anyone who thinks they are not impacted is only deceiving themselves. We're some a little more fragile, and some hardened and closed off. Ultimately, all you can do is keep the door to communication open with the understanding that if at any point, either of you feels it's not right for you anymore, you say it and stop.

I'm watching two newly retired or semi-retired couples right now trying to figure things out. They're both struggling more than they admit. They both loved their professions and work. Hubby use to laugh at job applicants who would ask where they might be in five years. He'd say, "Five years. I don't even know what I'm eating for lunch." Speaking of which, it's lunch time. What should I eat? :lol:

 

[rslifkin]

Found what’s miserable about sporty weather is fatigue. First you go OMG. Then ‘it’s not so bad…the boats doing great”. Then you’re pissed everything is so hard to do. Going to the head, making a meal, dressing/undressing, moving about. Then you’re dragging your butt and just want it stop. Won’t miss that. Unless I have at least one day more of reasonable weather than expected transit time we ain’t leaving. Totally different mindset than prior where even with the best weather router once you got beyond 5 days it’s a crapshoot. We’re going coastal not ocean. We firmly believe “schedules kill”.
Ocean you see wind waves on top of swell. But coastal you see chop. Find short period chop annoying even though it’s not dangerous.

Agreed. The fatigue of running in crap weather is often the worst part, especially if hand steering. Because of that, I always say that the conditions I'm willing to run in vary depending on the length of the run and direction (relative to conditions). I'm willing to run in worse for a quick 30 minute hop than I am if we'll be out there for 8 hours.

 

[mvweebles]

Wifey B: ...... Speaking of which, it's lunch time. What should I eat? :lol:

Well, if you were in Ensenada, I'd suggest Street Tacos. Rez (beef) Pescado (fish) or Carnitas (pork)? Heck, at $1/each, I'd even pick-up the tab.....

Saludos y bueno suerte

Pedro

 

[Hippocampus]

B don’t stop. So we used to love our motorcycles. Between crazy drivers texting and hearing about friende getting hurt gave that up. So we transferred to bicycles but after her ankle injury gave that up. Now have e bikes. Excellent and still ride.
The joy of aging is replacing physical capabilities with wisdom. Accepting limitations, shedding ego and macho while replacing it with experience and wisdom. Get great satisfaction from executing the work arounds which are often better than what they replaced. Never say never.