Stopping disaster boat porn

[Hippocampus]

On or about April 14th the refit of our new to us NT42 will be completed and Hippocampus will splash. Before we went long term cruising on our prior boat the admiral consumed any and all disaster porn concerning blue water sailboats. Any rescue, sinking, heavy weather, collision or other major mishap. Finally a fellow cruising friend sat her down and told her to stop. She pointed out I had a modicum of experience and was competent, we were on a excellent boat for that activity, events were extremely rare as was heavy weather, and my bride has a brain so will figure it out. Finally she said the fixation on international sailboat disaster porn was counterproductive and could cause unnecessary stress making her a less safe and effective cruiser.
Now we are shifting paradigms. The admiral is watching docking accidents, groundings and other mishaps of coastal power cruisers. Unfortunately I don’t have the network of coastal power cruisers friends I had when doing sail. I have no one to sit her down and get her to realize how counterproductive this activity can be. That girl to girl talk was huge coming from a third party living the life. Wife thinks I’m always starry eyed whenever we embark on a new challenge.

Any suggestions on getting her to stop watching this stuff. Or at least watching it critically so she learns from other’s mistakes.

 

[diver dave]

She should burn out on this at some point. At least she knows the risks. The important part of this is to translate that visual knowledge to YOUR boat and YOUR process'. So, make sure to convert these teaching moments to targeted practice on the boat.
But, agree that watching mega yacht and ship disasters may have little relevance.

 

[Hippocampus]

The latest is watching boats 40-60’ banging around while docking.

 

[Gdavid]

For the docking anxiety, you can go through some practice with an experienced third hand when the boat re-launches, someone she respects who is capable of coaching and/or pitching in to help as the two of you increase your familiarity with the new boat. Not only does this give her the ability to step back and observe, but also see an impartial mariner praising the skills of both of you. This goes a long way in instilling confidence.

When I taught cruising sailing classes, the biggest value that many students got from the class was close quarters maneuvers under power in a well structured setting and unapologetic repetition of evolutions. A group setting worked well, rotating positions, gaining perspective and comfort, it was the process that really worked, not my guidance.

I rarely see anyone practice docking their own boats in such a way although I frequently see people that could use the practice. I'm not implying that you need practice, but that she would almost certainly benefit from it.

 

[Hippocampus]

We practiced docking for a week with a captain onboard before going RI to VA. We will do additional training once the boat splashes again. Gentlemen I know what I don’t know and have little ego impeding my ability to learn from others nor does she. Both of us had a continuous program of learning in order to maintain our professional skill sets and licensure. We both (MD/RN) know supervised experience is key as regards learning. She has been and will be trained.
That’s not the thrust of my inquiry. Spent the last 8 years long term cruising a sailboat with a underpowered bow thruster and a small auxiliary engine with a feathering prop. Docking in new to us harbors just about every time. Wind often made the bow thruster useless. Current boat has stern and bow thrusters and big engine. Yes it’s a new skill as it’s a new boat and each handles differently. But it’s more like learning to hit a driver when you know how to swing a iron than learning to play golf from scratch.

 

[TBill36]

I'd be willing to bet that most of what she is seeing with "40-60' banging around while docking" is driven by wind and current. You can assess the conditions and either go somewhere else or wait until conditions subside. Some dock hands will be inconsiderate of conditions and assume you can thread your way through a maze of boats and pilings with a 15 knot wind and 4 knot cross current to put you in the slip in the corner. Ask if you can stay tied up to the outer dock until the tide turns or the wind subsides and don't be afraid to ask for a different slip.

 

[psneeld]

Docking is mostly about awareness of the external factors affecting the boat and planning by the helmsman to get the boat into where you want it to be throughout the manuever.

The second is how maneuverable the boat really is.

The distant third is the actual skill of the helmsman.

If you were pretty good with sailboats, the trawler shouldn't be a hard or steep learning curve.

Deck and dock hands are almost a non existent fourth if the first three are solid.

The less able at the first 3, then make sure there is a capable deck hand and a dock hand available for anything more than the easiest of docking.

As far as groundings go...depends where and what hull type you have. East Coast ICW where mostly sand or goo and a keel protected prop.... pretty benign grounding. Add rocks or hard bottom....best to avoid grounding like the plague.

Best way to avoid grounding is avoid the ICW much of the time and only go where vessels drafting much more than you go. I know not practical, but works at least until your staying in channels comfort level increases.

You probably already know all this so let the newer people absorb it.... convincing fearful and worrisome people is difficult. My military training forged a path of learning/confidence that helped a lot. I am sure learning to become a surgeon had to be similar. I got better at recognizing that some never really get it....my mom is the queen of worry worts.

So other than starting slow..... go to fuel docks and critique landings with her. Many people at marinas have done the same and if there, I usually mutter under my breath something like.... "they should do this" at a point often seconds before the skipper does ...or something like "should have waited or come in the other way"..... then often on the second approach, they do and the landing is good. The comments back to me are "how did you know that?" And the explanation is as simple as "didn't account for this or that like current" or it gets more into complicated answers... doesn't really matter as the critique group gets the different levels I mentioned above. So by doing this with her, she may be more confident in you and start to build it in herself as she agrees as you mutter along.

 

[Gdavid]

We practiced docking for a week with a captain onboard before going RI to VA. We will do additional training once the boat splashes again. Gentlemen I know what I don’t know and have little ego impeding my ability to learn from others nor does she. Both of us had a continuous program of learning in order to maintain our professional skill sets and licensure. We both (MD/RN) know supervised experience is key as regards learning. She has been and will be trained.
That’s not the thrust of my inquiry. Spent the last 8 years long term cruising a sailboat with a underpowered bow thruster and a small auxiliary engine with a feathering prop. Docking in new to us harbors just about every time. Current boat has stern and bow thrusters and big engine. Yes it’s a new skill as it’s a new boat and each handles differently. But it’s more like learning to hit a driver when you know how to swing a iron than learning to play golf from scratch.

I apologize in that case, I certainly don't know how to change what's on a woman's mind.

 

[koliver]

It isn't about the skills, the training or the practice. It is about the messenger. You want someone else to tackle giving her the message that both of you have or will quickly develop all of the skills, practice or training necessary. Without outside help, you have to be that messenger.
Similar to answering the age-old question "do these shorts make my butt look fat?" . You never want to be that messenger, but sometimes there is nobody else to be him.
First, a plan. then, a message. Last, delivery.
Good luck. I am sure that you will find a way to deliver a gentle message that she will accept, allowing her to ease off on the big boat disaster stuff. Your new boat is NOT very big, after all.

 

[hollywood8118]

Take her for a boat ride and don't hit anything


HOLLYWOOD

 

[Alisske]

Well, tell her the she is creating a self fulfilling prophecy. (Where we think of something so much it happens, lmao). They call it “Pygmalion” effect. https://www.simplypsychology.org/self-fulfilling-prophecy.html


In this case, by watching crash videos, she will subconsciously cause a crash.

One time i was doing a solo trip from Long Island to Bermuda in October via the northern route in a 26 down east. A week before I left, I watched (stupidly in retrospect) a documentary on white tip shark attacks during shipwrecks

That haunted me the whole trip, lmao. Sorta took some fun out of it.

 

[twistedtree]

You need a new girl to administer the girl-to-girl talk. KOliver described it as a new messenger, and I agree. Anyone want to volunteer their wife?


What about a woman training captain? Or a couple training captains?


I love looking at the same sort of stuff, but it's about learning whatever I can about how to stay out of such a situation, or how to best deal with it. It's not obsessing over it, or at least that's what I tell myself . But what I'm getting at is that you might consider posing that question to her. Is she learning from this, or is she obsessing over it and digging herself into a hole? Then let her think about it.

 

[Shrew]

We LOVE spending hours watching video compilations of boating mishaps and catastrophe's on You Tube. Especially docking and boat ramp stuff. It's hysterical, but it's also a way to learn.

I look at it from the other perspective. From the safety and comfort of my living, desk or salon, I can watch situations and think about how to avoid the situation, what the person did right or wrong in that situation and then what they could have done.

It's a mind exercise that gets your mind repeatedly going through scenarios and possible outcomes. Then, when you're in a situation, your brain has gone through the necessary exercising to more quickly and effectively react.

 

[bshillam]

Confidence

There will always be accidents and now with our phones in our pockets there will always be accidents to video. Many of them great teaching tools as to what not to do or what can be done differently. However, many of them are so far fetched that under normal operating terms will never happen. Such as the one right now around the net where the guy hits the dock backs up and turns around and hits another. Yeah, he stole the boat and was driving it as such. That will be the exception.
Several things I would suggest to help with handling, confidence and helping any significant other.

1. Buy a set of head phones. Everyone talks with each other and doesn't need to yell over the engines, or because they're on the stern and you can't hear from the fly bridge. Just that one thing will lower everyones level of stress coming and going.
2. If needed, hire a captain for half a day. Practice as a team coming and going. After all that is the most stressful time of boating. Make sure you know who's doing what and that each can handle the helm. Emergencies do happen and everyone aboard that normally travels with you should know how to dock in the case your not able.
3. Safety, make sure everyone knows where the safety items are on the boat.
4. Practice, practice, practice.
5. Be aware that nothing anyone does by accident can't be fixed. (Other than that stolen boat) A grounding, a knock against the dock, etc can be fixed. Boat long enough it's going to happen.
6. Another suggestion, always make sure to have both sides of the boat rigged to dock. Coming into moorage you never know you may have to tie up to the opposite. I have seen many mishaps because of having to change sides of the fenders, not having fenders out at all, no lines ready, etc. Don't cheap out on small fenders, they are super inexpensive insurance. I typically will over size my fenders because of this. I also make sure I have minimum three per side and a free fender for the deck hand to assist if needed.
7. When you and your partner have a mishap and damage the boat, dock it, secure it (make sure there's no water coming in) and pour a great drink. You'll laugh about it later and the enjoyment of the experience will outweigh the expense of fixing the prop.

 

[socalrider]

We LOVE spending hours watching video compilations of boating mishaps and catastrophe's on You Tube. Especially docking and boat ramp stuff. It's hysterical, but it's also a way to learn.

I look at it from the other perspective. From the safety and comfort of my living, desk or salon, I can watch situations and think about how to avoid the situation, what the person did right or wrong in that situation and then what they could have done.

It's a mind exercise that gets your mind repeatedly going through scenarios and possible outcomes. Then, when you're in a situation, your brain has gone through the necessary exercising to more quickly and effectively react.

I agree - some of the most impactful lessons we learned in undergrad engineering classes were studies of failure. Most of the coastal boat disaster porn is comically bad piloting (versus the offshore stuff where it can be terrible luck or much more ephemeral errors like weather routing or boat prep). Poor docking is a heck of a lot easier to understand and correct than offshore weather routing!

Maybe there's a way to turn it into a positive - spot the first, second & third error, figure out how it should have been mitigated.

My wife's gotten more confident over the past year, but she's still terrified of docking. Working on it.

 

[O C Diver]

First rule of docking: Never travel faster than your willing to hit an immovable object.

Clearly you have demonstrated to her through years of docking and picking up moorings, that you have the ability to control a boat in slow motion. While every boat has a learning curve, the safe procedures and techniques don't change. Start with what you know, and add the thrusters use later.

My trawler had a bow thruster issue. I nicknamed it Lucille. " You picked a fine time to leave me Lucille ". So I docked my 45' single engine trawler without a bow thruster. Docking a 35' single engine charter boat without a bow thruster for 20 years wasn't an issue, after a little practice. The issues with my bow thruster were resolved during the refit. While I like and use my thruster, I routinely dock without it to stay in practice. You never know when Lucille will leave again. Start with what you know and build from there.

Ted

 

[FWT]

Following. I get it. It isn’t about how to be safe. It’s about spousal mania with fear of impending doom.

A year away from delivery mine has not yet shifted to boat disaster porn. She is content with airplane crash videos. So far.

 

[mvweebles]

Thoughts:

1. Despite her obvious experience, may want to suggest an all-women's multi-day training course. SeaSenseBoating.com (seems to be Facebook these days, which I don't have). Would be a proxy for your 'network of sailing friends.'
2. OCC - I see there are a small handful of power-boaters there. And at least a few sailors have transitioned to Power.
3. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should she be allowed to watch "Haulover Inlet" videos (an example HERE)

When I was teaching a lot (including several all-woman's classes, which were super-fun), I noticed women have much different priorities.

In general, men worry about (decending order)

• Ego - looking like an ass
• Damaging their boat
• Damaging someone elses boat

Women are reversed - and add-in concern about being stranded. Suddenly-Alone syndrome - what happens if husband gets injured?

I hope some of the few women on TF chime in.

Peter

 

[mvweebles]

You need a new girl to administer the girl-to-girl talk. KOliver described it as a new messenger, and I agree. Anyone want to volunteer their wife?


What about a woman training captain? Or a couple training captains?

It's been a while, but I recall Capt Linda Lewis had a good reputation, though I think she's in PNW.

But I agree about woman-to-woman. Again, when I was teaching, women have a much different response. I typically did weekend classes - 6-7 hours each of Saturday and Sunday; 3-students. Men watch each other and build a plan in their head - and mentally, they correct what the other guy is doing. Women are much more supportive and learn from each other's mistake. When they get it right, they are hugely enthusiastic and encouraging of one another. Men congratulate themselves quietly.

Hippocampus, given your wife's experience, she's unique in that she has more understaning of what she doesn't know. I guess what I'm driving at is to develop comfort and confidence to displace her 'what-if' training.

Peter

 

[FWT]

Its an emotional thing. Men try to respond to that with logic. Which doesn't work.

 

[psneeld]

Thoughts:

1. Despite her obvious experience, may want to suggest an all-women's multi-day training course. SeaSenseBoating.com (seems to be Facebook these days, which I don't have). Would be a proxy for your 'network of sailing friends.'
2. OCC - I see there are a small handful of power-boaters there. And at least a few sailors have transitioned to Power.
3. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should she be allowed to watch "Haulover Inlet" videos
   
   When I was teaching a lot (including several all-woman's classes, which were super-fun), I noticed women have much different priorities.
   
   In general, men worry about (decending order)
   • Ego - looking like an ass
   • Damaging their boat
   • Damaging someone elses boat
   
   Women are reversed - and add-in concern about being stranded. Suddenly-Alone syndrome - what happens if husband gets injured?
   
   I hope some of the few women on TF chime in.
   
   Peter

1. 
   
   I really agree with the "damaging someone elses boat" as possibly a major factor.
   
   After 15 years of assistance towing...and being in situations where it was going from bad to worse when close quarters maneuvering with a boat in tow.... your instincts are to protect your boat.
   
   But in my case (per bosses understanding).... better to sacrifice the workboat in some way than to inflict any damage to the tow.
   
   So, it became important to not only learn to handle 2 boats at a time but to ensure those external factors when docking would put the tow in the better position to avoid damage.
   
   I have always felt similar in all aspects of life...and can see where others can feel that. Not sure how much of a woman vs man thing it is... but certainly a point to discuss in a casual manner.

 

[FWT]

Its hard for a logical man to think like an emotional woman. We are who we are, they are who they are.

But when you can, respond to their emotional concern on an emotional level. When you can find the right path it works. It isn't easy.

Example: "What's the #1 fear?" "What if I fall overboard, or you fall overboard." "Well dear, WE are going to do what almost no one ever does, so WE will be safer than others. WE are going to do a MOB drill every once in a while. And here's how we are going to do it ... throw a life jacket overboard and retrieve it. Once with me at the helm saving you, and then with you at the helm saving me." Its an effort to a) acknowledge and validate the fear (not dismiss it), and b) replace fear with knowledge.

I'd love to say it always works. Its hard to find the right levers on all such fears.

 

[Shrew]

..... and add-in concern about being stranded. Suddenly-Alone syndrome - what happens if husband gets injured?

My wife confidently handles the boat in open ocean and running inlets, channels, navigation. The only thing she won't do is dock.

We have standing orders......If I am incapacitated, skip the dock and aim for the boat ramp. Run it right up the boat ramp. At this point, the priority is getting me into the ambulance. Boats can be fixed.

 

[Hippocampus]

Some useful thoughts and thanks for that. Several things were pointed out.
She needs a girl to girl talk. Appreciate any ways to facilitate that occurrence. Thanks for prior suggestions.
It’s purely emotional. She has 30,000+ miles under her keel. She knows what’s she doing and consistently downgrades her skill set. On the prior boat we often switched jobs. Found it was good to do that for two reasons. First it’s important to do the other job so you understand the difficulties of that job. Be it picking up a mooring, anchoring or docking. Second if you switch who’s at the helm then you have two people who know how to do it should the need arise.
Find all to frequently both she and I are more experienced and skilled than the certified instructors in many schools. Both of us have found learning from yard hands, fellow cruisers, and professionals who work boats more effective. Classic for this is MOB drills taught in various sailing schools. All to often totally ineffective if just a 3’ sea is running or it’s a mom and pop boat. So the guy who moves around boats in the yard we’re at is lined up for docking sessions. He moves all kinds and sizes of boats in all kinds of weather on a daily basis. Easy going guy who communicates well. Watching him to date see he’s highly skilled.
We’ll take turns. Her session/my session one on one. Gets rid of the spousal dynamics. Fortunately we’re still desperately in love with each other so who’s the boss isn’t a issue.
We’ve been using headsets for over a decade through several boats. We also have a set of hand signals we’ve worked out. Found using both quite helpful. Two boats ago she would listen to line handlers on the dock. But for a decade now she knows to ignore them and only listen to who is helming.

As an aside for newbie crew much prefer women to men. Worst crew I’ve ever had was men with US captains licenses under 100t. Think they know what they’re doing when they don’t. Don’t listen. Don’t learn. Take or create unnecessary risks. Newbie women listen, learn, and do exactly what you tell them. When they don’t know they ask. They don’t try to muddle through. Much better crew.

 

[psneeld]

A couple experiences with 100T or less captains is a GROSS generalization.

A large number of those guys have exactly why you chose the yard guy who moves around boats.

Do you have a captains license? Sorry if it has been posted and I forgot.

Otherwise if you do have one or get one..... does that erase everything you learned?

 

[grahamdouglass]

For cruising, it's the docking maneuvers that are most stress building. I have both wind and current. The wind is easy to figure out since there is a big flag right in front of me above the club house. Current can be a little more subtle. I find that stopping right in front of my berth and seeing how my boat reacts at that moment helps a lot. Although I have a pretty good idea how the current should be flowing via the tide in the harbour, actually seeing how the boat moves when it shouldn't while sitting in front of your berth is pretty important.
And I'm not talking about river current of 3 to 6 knts. I'm talking about tidal current of less then 1 knt. Just enough to add an additional foot or two one way or another. This combined with propwash can make for a tricky landing.
I have a single screw, with a 2 foot keel and an aggressive left hand propeller that kicks the boat to starboard in reverse.

 

[guy with a boat]

A couple experiences with 100T or less captains is a GROSS generalization.

A large number of those guys have exactly why you chose the yard guy who moves around boats.

Do you have a captains license? Sorry if it has been posted and I forgot.

Otherwise if you do have one or get one..... does that erase everything you learned?

Most criticism of the value of licenses is from people that don’t have licenses.

Who knows if the dock guy has good skills, with or without a license? However, the good training captains have communication and teaching skills that are equally as important as seamanship skills. They also have demonstrated the experience (sea time) and knowledge to get the license. Good ones are worth whatever they cost.

 

[Hippocampus]

PS you’re absolutely right my sample size is extremely small. However with in that small sample the problematic individuals are way over represented by that group. Now when reviewing and vetting I discount what formal certificates prospective crew have paying more attention to their experience, supporting personal endorsements and direct discussion with them and the references they list. Some of my best crew has been professional mariners such as yourself, prior naval officers and other prior government employees. My go to guy ran fire boats in NY harbor. Close friend ran mega yachts (not deliver but full time). When he’s on my boat he’s captain and I’m crew.
I have not been licensed for over 20y so currently am not licensed. I never worked as a professional mariner. Self attested seatime doesn’t carry the weight that is allowed for lower levels. I’m honest and strict when I was keeping my log. Also when others signed off my seatime. I wonder about others. I have the utmost respect for professional mariners. I was referencing a segment of US captains within a level of captaincy. They are not representative of the group at large. This is a quite distinct group.
Yes good training captains are worth every penny. Unfortunately not all are. Watching and spending time with someone even briefly may tell you more about whether things will work out then a piece of paper.

 

[Lollygag1]

In our relationship I am considered the valet. I dock the boat and get it off the dock and she is free to drive it elsewise although she prefers not to drive in traffic. My wife will not dock the boat due to an experience with our little boat where she slipped and jammed the throttle forward about 10ft from the dock smashing the bow and almost my hand. Instead she is my eyes at the stern providing directions so I rarely have to look back (we back in).

She is however in charge when getting to a mooring as I need to be the one in the bow with the hook. This took some practice and communication w hand signals but we have it down pretty well.

If you want to build her confidence go find some empty early season slips and have her pull in and out of them. Warwick cove is where we did this as there is a decent current and variable winds to practice. Go to the consignment show and buy a bunch of fenders if you or she is worried.

 

[diver dave]

Seems like a job for a shrink, rather than an expert boat driver. Similar cost i will bet