The reality of moving to FL?

[Bigsfish]

Smart, I wouldn’t trust me either.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by BandB

Dan

I disagree with most of it, but respect your opinion. However, don't presume how someone else will feel. I have no idea how he'll feel. We moved from Lake Norman so as big a change as from Cary and we can't imagine now living anywhere else.

What Caltex says on love and hate is true. I may have met a few who were in the middle but not very many. That's why it's so critical the OP explore the area himself.

As to areas I would or wouldn't go into, I've never seen any city with 50,000 people and I've seen a lot with fewer than 5,000 that don't have an area I'd avoid. The routing from the airport was a nightmare from what I've been told, but rectified long ago, long before we arrived here.

I haven't experienced rudeness here to any significant extent. Less than many places. Right now on the way to NYC. Speaking of rude. However, that's over emphasized too. Many are great people with just different speech patterns. Faster and louder seems rude to Southerners.

To the OP, only you and your wife can figure it out. Is it paradise? Or paradise lost?

I won't tell the OP to avoid SE Florida but I will tell him my experiences and why I won't move back. It is not a presumption how he will feel but since the OP has lived in NC for years moving to SE Florida can be culture shock. I really miss the Cuban food and other great restaurants in SE Florida. There really is a lack of good restaurants up here, especially in Cary compared to SE Florida. I had lots of really nice, family owned "ethic" restaurants where I used to live in SE Florida which I do miss. Cary is a vast wasteland in comparison.

I lived in multiple places in Palm Beach and Broward counties. Worked In Dade, Palm Beach, Broward counties as well as over to Fort Myers and Naples. I suspect you live in a very nice part of SE Florida and not worked with the public like I did. I lived in nice areas to slum areas. Honestly, not much difference in crime or rudeness in either areas.

I have lived from close to I95 to out "west" well past the turnpike.

Rudeness is not speech patterns. One of the things I noticed in SE Florida was going to the gas station. This was back in the day where you had to go inside to pay and the clerks acted like they were doing you a favor to take your money to pay for the gas. The people in the gas stations in SW Florida was nice and polite. Night and day difference. Rudeness was a common topic of conversation when I lived down there. Never seen anything like it before or since.

A family member traveled to NYC on business back then and was surprised that people up there were polite unlike the New Yorker's in SE Florida. He was talking to a guy up there about this, and the New Yorker said they ship the rude a....hats to Florida. Decades later, we were flying out of one of the New York airports and had great service and politeness. Figured that guy was right and the rude people where shipped to FLA. As a surprising aside, the rudest people we have seen at airports have been at LAX and SeaTac. Go figure.

There are areas here in NC that are not so nice to go into but I drive through them without much concern. There are areas in South Florida that going into is a major risk and I would not drive through at all. When I lived in SE Florida there were fairly constant reports of tourists or Snow Birds driving into these areas by mistake or ignorance and getting robbed or worse. Heck, I remember one of the news readers getting robbed when she was doing the zig zag to get on I95 from downtown Miami.

At one apartment, one afternoon, I heard a knock on the door. Got up and looked through the peep hole. Nobody there so I sat back down. Another knock on the door and so I looked out the door to see nobody. Sit down and it repeats but this time I stand and keep looking out the peep hole. After a bit I see a deputy leaning out from cover and concealment at which point I open the door to chat with him. He has on a domestic violence call and got the correct apartment number but wrong building. Domestic violence happens anywhere so this is not about DV... But it was the first time I knowingly had it going on near me. Has not happened since either.

Now, why was I not opening the door in the first place? Well there was a Jamaican drug dealer living next door. I will skip all the crap going on with that guy but I felt carrying a shotgun from room to room in my apartment was a prudent thing to do. If one lived on the other side of the road, it was a really nice area. Not so much where I was living. The people living over at the gate golf course community were not having these experiences even though they were maybe 1,000 feet away.

Thankfully, my lease was soon up and I moved to a nice city, kinda like Cary. Of course lots of bad stuff happens in Cary but they suppress that information but that is another story. In the new city I moved too, in a nice area, we had problems with neighbors using drugs, to some nut calling me by mistake thinking I was at his Ex's house and threatening to come beat my a..., and the best one was early one morning when some lady started yelling at some man to put down the machine gun. Fun watching the PD roll in on that call.

I have lived in quite a few places but SE Florida was the most "interesting."

Maybe SE Florida has gotten better. I don't read about planes landing in the 'glades full of drugs or about square groupers floating up on the beaches. Heck, when I was working on a horse ranch, I saw two twin engine planes flying just above tree top with the engines fire walled and heading west. We assumed one was the drug runner and the other was the Federale's but they both could have been carrying. Maybe the drugs are gone and the law enforcement corruption has stopped too. Got stories about that as well.

Flip side is that a few years ago we drove through on I95 through one of the towns I used to live and I was shocked at the gang tagging on highway signs and walls. That was NOT there when I or my family lived in town.

The OP needs to spend some time in the area he wants to live/work. I would also start reading the local papers, and now a days, check to see if the sheriff and police departments publish crime maps.

Later,
Dan

[BruceK]

Originally Posted by AusCan

Really? You must be talking about American cities only.

I'm in a city of 1.2 million and there is no worry of going anywhere at any time of day or night.

I thought Hindley St had some issues, but that was a while back.
Kings Cross in Sydney is far better since restrictions were introduced on bar entry, re-entry, opening hours, and service, incl selling shots. Requiring the use of plastic instead of "glass"glasses helps prevent "glassings"(face/neck slashing using a smashed glass). More generally, it reduced the incidence of innocent people "king hit" unconscious in the street and falling, often sustaining a brain injury in the process. St.Vincents Hospital sees far less assault victims these days, a good barometer of the success of restrictions.

[Besslb]

Thanks Ya'll! We are really enjoying and appreciating all of your thoughts and comments....both good, bad, indifferent and irrelevant! Moving to Florida has always been a dream we had hoped to plan for, and Miami was never our target. But that is not to say it is off the table. But the timing of this has been unexpected and unnerving. We are trying to consider the benefits versus deficits of making the choice now rather than later when it can be better plannned and budgeted for.

Again...thanks so much for the thoughts and ideas......keep them coming.....

[diver dave]

One last comment, and I will let this go. When I travel to Miami, I need to go into "bad" neighborhoods. As a resident, you don't.

I'm not a field service guy, but I do find myself in various electrical substations around the world. Each utility usually demands a "safety training" session; the usual high voltage hazards, explosions, flaming oil, asbestos, etc. My safety training by FPL, taught by a Miami resident spent a lot of time on security. As in, driving around the substation before entry; if you feel threatened, drive away, call for backup; aways drive your vehicle inside and lock both yourself and the car behind the barbed wire. So, they consider me driving a rental car inside a substation filled with close quarters steel work and ground mounted HV equipment SOLO, 250 to 500 kV overhead safer than parking at the gate. So, yeah, I've been to Overtown, alone, semi-lost looking for equipment in some pretty dicey streets.
I'm sure my trips to places like Guadalahara were more "dangerous". But then, these stations were under 24 hour guard. Miami uses cameras and hopes for the best.

[ranger58sb]

We had a job assigment in Miami (near Doral), commuted from nearer FLL... and we liked it.

Some commuting could be an issue at first, but once learning the best/easiest routes, usually no big deal. Occasional alligators in the lake behind our house, ditto, no big deal (it was easy enough to install a fence to keep the big dogs safe). Afternoon thunderstorms, no big deal... and humidity dropped off afterwards, too. Spanish language issues, no big deal (we'll never starve in a Latino restaurant).

The tax structure was such that we paid quite a bit less overall when we lived down there, compared to our normal "home base" in Maryland. Some of that was because of our normal spending habits (not much).

Helps to have housing conforming to most recent building codes, and ideally slight elevated.

Boating is completely different from what we enjoy here on the Chesapeake. Not better or worse; different. Lots of nifty places to cruise to, though...

-Chris

[BandB]

Wifey B: Things to love about South Florida, my paradise.

-People wear a lot less clothes. Comfy and good for the view.

-Don't have to drive to the coast. You're there already. Beaches year round. Sun and fun.

-360 out of 365 days a year are nice. Even if it rains, it's not a freaking cold rain. You don't worry every morning, what is the temp outside, do I need a jacket, coat, what? You have 12 months of spring and summer, not 3 or 6.

-Diversity. People of all races, ethnicity, sexual orientation, national origin. Less prejudice. To an outsider, even the Hispanic population is seen differently as it's seen as one group. Not from the inside. It's from so many different countries. I know people from (or parents from) at least 30 different countries now.

-Boats, boats and boats. Boating capital of the world. Means also any service you want is here.

-Healthy air. Salt water breeze off the ocean good for breathing and refreshing. Hubby's allergies virtually non-existent. Moisture great for your skin.

-Young attitudes even in the old. And Florida is set for the elderly. They're not housebound in the freezing cold somewhere. They play golf year round. They tend their flowers year round. They go for walks year round.

-Tourists. All those things provided for tourists are here for us. Vacation land year round. Nice restaurants. Recreation.

-Special rates at Disney. Lord knows the way their prices have gone up, they are needed.

-Gateway to the seas of the world. We don't have one island off shore. Hundreds, some as close as 50 miles. Each beautiful and different. Wonderful Bahamian people.

-Shortcut to the west coast of FL and the Gulf or long way around. Either way can get there quickly. Easy trip up the coast. We can enjoy the eastern seaboard in the summer and then enjoy home in the continuation of the summer.

-Great community college system. FL, TX, CA, and NC have the best. I see so many kids get a chance for an education here that might struggle to do so elsewhere. They have the schools and the good "summer jobs" but year round jobs for school kids.

-You can move in and be right at home. Not like some areas where the newcomers stand out. You're just one of millions.

Now as to the negatives, there is crime. Every big city has it and we're no exception. The language. We've never had an issue. Never had problems communicating. I do think it's sad that some third generation families are still speaking other languages in the home, a disservice sometimes to their kids just as it is to live in Latin America and not learn English. Rudeness, I take a strong objection to. I've rarely seen it and less than most places. If you experience it then I'd really rethink how I came across that got me treated that way or to feel I was. I don't care if it's here or anywhere else, if you have a problem with an individual, then I understand, maybe they're a jerk. However, if you have a problem with all the people or a large group or community, whether it's here, NYC, France, Nicaragua, or anywhere else, then the first place I'd look is the mirror and how perhaps I was perceived. The roads, no more than any other large areas. Ever do rush hour in Charlotte, NC? The schools in the cities, like most big cities. FLL suffers as so many go to private school. Like most major areas if you have kids, choose where to live based on school systems. Now some areas have great schools. Jupiter, FL wonderful. I wish the public schools were better.

Now, I know the negatives but prefer to focus on the positives. I guess really I don't dislike anywhere. I try to enjoy every place I visit. We've gone to hundreds of places the last 5 years and not a single one I didn't like and didn't like the people.

Now only the OP can decide if it's right for them. Whatever you decide, be comfortable you did what was best for you and make it best by going in positive or staying where you are positive and focusing on all the positives, not the negatives. We said no to a lot of moves, hubby was always being recruited by head hunters but we remained happy and content where we were and we never thought further of the money passed up. We made one move to FLL and we've loved every minute of life here. Whichever decision you make can work and be good and it will work if you make it do so. You will be happy with it, but only you can control that part.

Reminds me of those who retire to the Caribbean. Fall in love with it as it's so calm and peaceful and "so laid back." Most appreciate that and just accept delays sometimes. However, others get upset when people don't hop to it and do things at the speed they want. What part of "laid back" did they not understand?

Good luck with your decision. Hope, whatever it is, you're as happy with it as we have been with ours. However, ultimately, remember, you control that part.

[smitty477]

Originally Posted by diver dave

One last comment, and I will let this go. When I travel to Miami, I need to go into "bad" neighborhoods. As a resident, you don't.

I'm not a field service guy, but I do find myself in various electrical substations around the world. Each utility usually demands a "safety training" session; the usual high voltage hazards, explosions, flaming oil, asbestos, etc. My safety training by FPL, taught by a Miami resident spent a lot of time on security. As in, driving around the substation before entry; if you feel threatened, drive away, call for backup; aways drive your vehicle inside and lock both yourself and the car behind the barbed wire. So, they consider me driving a rental car inside a substation filled with close quarters steel work and ground mounted HV equipment SOLO, 250 to 500 kV overhead safer than parking at the gate. So, yeah, I've been to Overtown, alone, semi-lost looking for equipment in some pretty dicey streets.
I'm sure my trips to places like Guadalahara were more "dangerous". But then, these stations were under 24 hour guard. Miami uses cameras and hopes for the best.

I do not know much about Miami since I have not been there much. But I know a bit about NY and there is plenty of crime in many areas around the state for sure - surprisingly even in Monroe County as well.

25 most crime-ridden counties in New York State, ranked | NewYorkUpstate.com

[diver dave]

I know city of ROC is bad. There is a very high rate in the so-called crime crescent inner city area. Even so, Miami is 2x.
2488 vs 5400 for Miami.

9. Monroe County
Crimes per 100,000 people: 2,488
Total crimes: 18,652
Violent: 2,475
Property: 16,177
Population: 749,600

MIAMI ANNUAL CRIMES
VIOLENT PROPERTY TOTAL
Number of Crimes
4,497
19,304
23,801
Crime Rate
(per 1,000 residents)
10.20
43.77
53.97

[BandB]

Originally Posted by diver dave

I know city of ROC is bad. There is a very high rate in the so-called crime crescent inner city area. Even so, Miami is 2x.
2488 vs 5400 for Miami.

Well, I will grant perhaps Miami is worse. Fort Lauderdale is, but all the surrounding towns of Broward County are not. However, crime in any of these areas varies widely by smaller communities. And in fairness to Miami, measuring against number of residents can be misleading for a tourist city. Measure against number of people present on an average day and the answer changes significantly.

Still, there's crime everywhere to varying degrees. Parts of all towns I wouldn't want to live in. And if you think your city has no crime, you're just oblivious to it. Why don't you toss in saying no drugs and no disenfranchised or poor.

We know the area we live in so feel safer simply because we know better how to avoid those areas that are most unsafe.

When we were in Grafton, MO, we went to St. Louis and then one afternoon made a side trip to Ferguson. We walked around, as a group, probably areas we shouldn't have, but we wanted to hear from those who call it home. The man on the streets. They were mostly people like any of the rest of us, but just a match tossed on the smoldering fire that lives in every community. Every city has crime, drugs, disenfranchised. Those of us who live in a city, know those areas that are least safe. Others don't. Others accidentally end up as victims, but then some of them do so as well by going looking for things they shouldn't in all the wrong places.

People, like me, are protective of their own home when it comes to comments against it, but a couple of things just to lay out as universal.

Every school in this country has drugs being used.

Every school in this country has guns sometimes present except those with metal detectors and they could sometimes.

Every city has drugs and crime. You can't be immune. No vaccine. You just do your best at minimizing your risk.

We live in Fort Lauderdale. It has one of the highest crime rates in the country. Well, our specific neighborhood of around 350 homes hasn't had a reported crime in years. How do we reconcile those numbers? Here's how. Population of Fort Lauderdale is only 178,000 people. The county has 1.9 million people. The metropolitan area over 6 million. Fort Lauderdale has a downtown area, city center. It also has clubs and bars. It has hundreds of thousands of people in it on any day, many times the number who live here and many of those are better crime targets. By zip code the crime rate in Broward County ranges from 32 to 288 with 100 being the national average. Oh, and our zip code is high even though our home neighborhood is low. Our zip code includes a lot of downtown, a lot of businesses, a lot of robberies. Makes sense then that we're pretty safe in our home but when we drive out and head into town it's a less safe area and if we park on the street much more subject to our car being broken into.

You just have to choose the best you know how. You can find "safe" areas in most cities, but you'll never be completely safe so it's a matter of whether you can live with the comfort level.

[BandB]

One useful tool. There are active crime maps for all neighborhoods in most cities. Before buying or even perhaps renting, go to spotcrime.com. Interesting. I just pulled it up. In our area, there are seven island and canal neighborhoods and not a crime mark on either. That's why we feel safe at home.

I go toward town and see two arrests for burglary of unoccupied businesses at night. I go north a few blocks and a burglary. I move on west and it picks up with more burglaries then I get to a location and find a more serious crime, simple assault on officer, firefighter or emt. I move on a bit and find a couple of domestic disturbances. On to another area and I find, 2 assaults with hands fist feet and teeth as the weapon and an aggravated battery all within one block of each other. All those at night clubs.

I'd strongly suggest this tool. We used it recently helping a young girl looking at apartments.

[smitty477]

Originally Posted by diver dave

I know city of ROC is bad. There is a very high rate in the so-called crime crescent inner city area. Even so, Miami is 2x.
2488 vs 5400 for Miami.

9. Monroe County
Crimes per 100,000 people: 2,488
Total crimes: 18,652
Violent: 2,475
Property: 16,177
Population: 749,600

MIAMI ANNUAL CRIMES
VIOLENT PROPERTY TOTAL
Number of Crimes
4,497
19,304
23,801
Crime Rate
(per 1,000 residents)
10.20
43.77
53.97

Miami-Dade Matters :: Indicators :: Violent Crime Rate :: County : Miami-Dade

Miami looks to be 578/100K and trending down pretty well (not 2X). The point is that looking even at counties does not tell you much about a specific location.
I have lived in some higher crime areas in NY and have lived in low crime areas - it was not a problem with a little awareness and certainly no reason to judge a larger area due to statistics that are very local and change quite a bit over time.
Not a reason I would ever rule out Miami if this was a place of interest for me.
Nor would I rule out Monroe county NY just because it had the same crime rate as the Bronx.
It takes a much closer look to evaluate a neighborhood and or choices such as these.

[smitty477]

Originally Posted by BandB

One useful tool. There are active crime maps for all neighborhoods in most cities. Before buying or even perhaps renting, go to spotcrime.com. Interesting. I just pulled it up. In our area, there are seven island and canal neighborhoods and not a crime mark on either. That's why we feel safe at home.

I go toward town and see two arrests for burglary of unoccupied businesses at night. I go north a few blocks and a burglary. I move on west and it picks up with more burglaries then I get to a location and find a more serious crime, simple assault on officer, firefighter or emt. I move on a bit and find a couple of domestic disturbances. On to another area and I find, 2 assaults with hands fist feet and teeth as the weapon and an aggravated battery all within one block of each other. All those at night clubs.

I'd strongly suggest this tool. We used it recently helping a young girl looking at apartments.

I have found the crime maps typically found online to be unreliable when compared to real stats.
Perhaps there are others which are but I have not found them.

[bayview]

Nowhere in the OP does he say that he must move to S FL. Wife can work anywhere and he is between jobs.

To me that means there are many more options than MIA/FLL. His job opportunities will be an important part of the equation. Personally we passed on S FL and would up in the St. Pete area. Have visited MIA /FLL multiple times since and still think we made the right choice for us.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by bayview

Nowhere in the OP does he say that he must move to S FL. Wife can work anywhere and he is between jobs.

To me that means there are many more options than MIA/FLL. His job opportunities will be an important part of the equation. Personally we passed on S FL and would up in the St. Pete area. Have visited MIA /FLL multiple times since and still think we made the right choice for us.

He doesn't have to do anything, but his specific job opportunity is in Miami and that's what he was asking about. He could move anywhere in the world, but he was asking about Miami because that's where the job is.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by smitty477

I have found the crime maps typically found online to be unreliable when compared to real stats.
Perhaps there are others which are but I have not found them.

I have found spotcrime to be very accurate and it pulls them right from the local governments reports. Certainly indicative. I know there is crime in the business area of Las Olas and I also know that in our neighborhood there hasn't been a break-in or robbery or anything since we moved here five years ago. Now we do have a security person. But the adjacent neighborhoods don't and they're pretty clean of activity.

[cafesport]

We have a condo in Miami as well as a house on the west coast of Florida. Currently we are in NC waiting for invest93L to go by before returning to Fl. I think you'll find Miami very expensive relative to your current standards. If as you say you keep the same income, all other expenses will increase. Dockage and insurance on the boat will probably triple for starters. Food is a controllable expense, but housing expenses, be they rent or purchase prices are a function of the market. Miami's market in spite of the recent storms, crime, traffic, language barriers, rude drivers, lack of parking, corruption etc remains a fire fueled by scared cash from overseas.

[Tom.B]

I want to echo what Bess said... Thanks for everyone's input!

I haven't actually been OFFERED the job yet and don't know if I will. Moreover, even if I get an offer, I might not accept it. Certainly I want the work, but there are many complexities to a relocation. Not to mention the costs associated with the move AND the complexity of just moving the boat.

We have never lived in a metropolis like Miami. We both had short stays in Hartford, CT (that is where we met), but that is a completely different animal, I really take the "crime" element as a grain of salt. It ain't rocket surgery to avoid them or just not look or act like a target. Sure, there is the random element, but that is everywhere. Rudeness? Like Wifey B said, that is usually a 2-way street... and if the population IS generally rude? The town wouldn't be so appealing to so many.

I'd kind of enjoy seeing super yachts and Ferrari's on the road. We might like a bustling large city with good weather. It might take a while to get used to driving, but that will come with time. Still, TBH, I find it unlikely we would really pull the pin on this. We would rather go on OUR terms and have more control on where and when. I like the idea of Jacksonville better... or the west coast, but in THIS situation, that isn't an option. We just aren't in a financial place to take our time picking a perfect option. Besides, there would be house sales, car sales, moving time, storage, boat relocation... yadda yadda yadda... and I doubt an employer wants to wait for me to accomplish all that for a measly little gig like this.

But we will see... Thanks again yall!

[Group9]

I used to work in Miami and live in Pembroke Pines (I was transferred there by my job).
The Pros.
* Weather. It just doesn't get any better than south Florida, 95 per cent of the time.
* Scenery. South Florida is a beautiful place. Even now. With beautiful architecture in a lot of places.
* Boating. Wonderful opportunities galore. The ICW, the Keys, the Bahamas, the west coast alone is a paradise.
* Big city fun stuff. Theatre, symphonies, restaurants, concerts, casinos, resorts, water parks, theme parks, Florida has it all.

The Cons. Big City not so fun stuff.
* People. It is crowded. Like New York City with palm trees.
* Traffic. Some of the worst I have ever seen. A ten mile commute can be horrific in the wrong place. And, some of the worst drivers (a fifty year old with one year's driving experience is like a seventeen year old behind the wheel).
* Cost of living. While housing prices are kind of in the middle, marinas are really expensive. Check the monthly rate to keep a boat at Dinner Key Marina, for instance.
* Crime. Completely dependent on where you are as far as street crime (high end areas have very little, of course). But south Florida does have a lot more scams, credit card fraud, bank fraud, and other kind of organized crime than any other place I ever lived or worked (I'm retired career federal law enforcement).
* Language. Spanish is the language primarily spoken in south Florida. Learn it or feel like a foreigner in your own country.

[diver dave]

Group9: thanks for your service! I was a member of a Fed Grand Jury for 18 months; Miami district, but the WPB courthouse. That was interesting.