Older+Refit vs. Newer/Better

[janice142]

However, because we know that this is going to be our forever home, we agreed that we were not even going to keep track of what we pay for repairs or changes we make. It's just a cost of living how we've chosen to live.

This is the way. What I put into my home is in lieu of rent. I have an amazing boat with critters that visit, and a life that few are able to enjoy. I am so fortunate. Here is Buddy who visited me as soon as Idalia had passed by:

When underway recently:

These things are priceless. I do not have the fanciest boat. Seaweed is one of the smallest here on TrawlerForum, however for me she is perfect. Whatever OP choses, if he invests the time and attention can be better than imagined at purchase.

A while back I wrote about this very thing. This is the article: Inadequate Boat (Gulfport too) article on janice142

 

[Erik]

Another point in favor of buying the small/temporary/cheap boat is that it can allow you to climb up that learning curve so you're in a situation a bit closer to PierreR when you get the second boat.

Yup, I’m now sold on this approach. Everyone has been so helpful and the “sanity check” has likely saved me tons of dough and headache. Thanks!

 

[PierreR]

Yup, I’m now sold on this approach. Everyone has been so helpful and the “sanity check” has likely saved me tons of dough and headache. Thanks!

We are talking boats here yah know. I bow down to your sanity.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

You would be surprised, maybe even SHOCKED to learn how many boats are out there which have recently undergone near complete refits and in a very short time end up on the market. Often at a substantial loss to whoever did the refit.

I know of a twin engine cruiser which recently sold for about half of the cost of the new engines recently installed, my own boat is an example of "my loss is your gain", a 36 foot cruiser at my marina was recently purchased for less than $10,000, it was very dirty but that is about all. I personally know of a 25 foot Sea Ray (a 1996), with an aluminum trailer and 700 hours on the 454 which sold for under $4,000. I know this to be true because I bought it!

So the bargains are out there, the trick is to find them.

pete

 

[PhilPB]

We are talking boats here yah know. I bow down to your sanity.

Boats and sanity? Never thought about having both of those words in the same sentence.

 

[Xlantic]

As noted above I’m leaning strongly to starting with something smaller and more temporary.

I also agree with this approach.

In the last 25 years I have bought and used three boats: a 6 year old 9 metre Apreamare, a 25 year old 42 Grand Banks and a 45 year old Grand Banks 50.

So, progressively bigger yet older boats, at similar prices.

The first one I sold at a similar price that I paid for with no major work done. The second one was sold somewhat below the purchase price in spite of significant aesthetic improvements. My current boat has absorbed many boat units that I don’t expect to recover upon sale.

Sí, I would begin with something you can safely sell with no loss as you decide what you eventually want.

 

[Delta Riverat]

This is where I started -

Yeah, nasty expensive hobby!

 

[Don L]

If someone does a "refit" and then sells the boat is it possible they know something?

Kind of like some engine "rebuilds"

 

[Barking Sands]

If someone does a "refit" and then sells the boat is it possible they know something?

Kind of like some engine "rebuilds"

Definitely possible. It seems there are several categories of why a boat may be sold not long after refit, at least from my observations.

1) they discovered a fatal flaw late in the game and they dont have the will, stamina or bank account left to deal with it.

2) They did finish the refit, but once underway life was nothing like they expected and not nearly as fun as they had hoped..lol. Youtube VS reality:lol:

3) Some people live to fix and alter and work on "things" and when the refit is done they are now bored. They must have a mission in front of them with this type of work and now that mission has dried up.

4) Sunk cost: The owner is halfway through a refit and discovers he is tired of it and decides to sell. But due to the vessels current condition its nearly unsellable. So he is practically forced to finish just so he can sell...even if for a loss.

Obviously there are many more reasons such as illness, financial, relationship and any combination etc.

When I was doing my search I found a small Cheoy Lee trawler that fit into category 3. It was amazing. The guy did an entire refit including a new small Yanmar, new AC, all electronics, some interior, Bimini and aft cover etc. Unfortunately it was a bit too small and we didnt like the layout. Someone else bought it and used it for a time and it has now sold again.

The boat we eventually purchased fell into category 4. It sat at Marine max for 2 years while they overhauled the Perkins 6.354.4 and trans and refit it with new coolers, driveline, all hoses, starter, batteries, had two custom fuel tanks fabbed up and installed etc etc. During this process the Dr. who owned it was just DONE with boats and the delays. Marine Max stated "no problem, we will sell it for you when we are done and you can recoup your cost". So Marine Max listed it for him. When the boat was done he paid the $42k bill and Marine Max promptly sold it to its next owner for around $30K (the exterior and upholstery needed attention)

The new buyer fell into category 2. He added some new electronics and tried his hand at some exterior upgrades. During this time he took the boat out about a dozen times and tooled around Boca Ciega Bay in St Pete and managed to put less than 50 hours on the engine. Probably closer to 30 hours by looking at his history in the Garmins. From the reports of the slip neighbors he did not enjoy it very much and by their description "had no business owning a boat" He had it about two years and sold it to us for $20k.

I am now in process of "fancying up" the interior, exterior, comfort and capabilities.

 

[SteveK]

5) While making the boat my own and pouring cash into the hole we were using said boat and came to realize it was not big enough for our wants and needs, that could not be fixed without selling. My loss your gain sale.

 

[Barking Sands]

5) While making the boat my own and pouring cash into the hole we were using said boat and came to realize it was not big enough for our wants and needs, that could not be fixed without selling. My loss your gain sale.

Good one! Defiantly have seen a few of those.

 

[Mark Laurnen]

Hello Erik, welcome to this wonderful world. Someone more experienced than myself once posted here “everything on your boat is broken … you just don’t know it yet”. I purchased a 15 year old 31’ boat which was well maintained and very clean … yet I had to fix minor defects found on survey, and numerous other ones I subsequently found myself. Saltwater is hard on everything. One question you need to ask yourself; do you enjoy projects and fiddling about? I do myself, and the boat has provided abundant bounty … just realize it will take you three times as many hours as it would take a professional and savor your successes.

 

[stephenbandi]

I agree exactly with Phil. I purchased my 1979 Marine Trader Europa 40 for $25k, which was 1/2 asking price. Great engines but everything else was suspect. My budget was $50k to refit with me doing most of the work. My estimated time was 6 months. I'm more than double the $50k on repairs with probably $30k to go and I'm past 2 years. She is a work of art, but even so, if I sold her when finished I get maybe $125k. The problem I have is I'd do it again if I could. It's an addiction I think.

 

[ronobrien]

I would look at MVWEEBLES post and build a spread sheet based on his numbers. Then you could quickly add in what is needed as you look at older boats and come to a pretty quick and fairly accurate estimate of what a refit might cost. I think we might see some prices drop over the near future and that may apply more to older boats that need work. Agree with another post that the decision would hinge on your own skill set. One consideration is the storage costs over time. I am doing my own refit on a part time basis, so it is taking time and the yard storage costs are adding up. Does that add up to cost savings over paying someone? Don't know but my own satisfaction at the work completed is worth something. Best of luck.

 

[SteveK]

I agree exactly with Phil. I purchased my 1979 Marine Trader Europa 40 for $25k, which was 1/2 asking price. Great engines but everything else was suspect. My budget was $50k to refit with me doing most of the work. My estimated time was 6 months. I'm more than double the $50k on repairs with probably $30k to go and I'm past 2 years. She is a work of art, but even so, if I sold her when finished I get maybe $125k. The problem I have is I'd do it again if I could. It's an addiction I think.

I once thought I could get more on a sale for the added improvements/repairs.
Market value, asking prices of similar, supply and demand will eliminate the money input for hidden repair costs on a well maintained boat.

 

[ronobrien]

I agree exactly with Phil. I purchased my 1979 Marine Trader Europa 40 for $25k, which was 1/2 asking price. Great engines but everything else was suspect. My budget was $50k to refit with me doing most of the work. My estimated time was 6 months. I'm more than double the $50k on repairs with probably $30k to go and I'm past 2 years. She is a work of art, but even so, if I sold her when finished I get maybe $125k. The problem I have is I'd do it again if I could. It's an addiction I think.

Agreed. My project is over time & (estimated) budget. There is great satisfaction in doing all the work yourself though. I know that what I've done is right and new. I also have the added benefit of knowing every nook, cranny, wire, nut, bolt, screw, hose etc. so any future work will be that much easier.

 

[Barking Sands]

Lol...mine isnt really over budget. Its more of an expansion of the things I wanted to upgrade and the level of fanciness And capability I want the boat to have. I wonder if you can get so fancy with Lithium, Victron, AIS, Garmin suite that you might restrict the poole of potential buyers.

But then again if I use the boat over the next 5 to 10 years it will be outdated, and the 5 to 10 years of use is the actual goal.

 

[PierreR]

Lol...mine isnt really over budget. Its more of an expansion of the things I wanted to upgrade and the level of fanciness And capability I want the boat to have. I wonder if you can get so fancy with Lithium, Victron, AIS, Garmin suite that you might restrict the poole of potential buyers.

Oh, no, you will increase the number of potential buyers, but you will not increase the resale value. You will sell faster and increase you own losses.

 

[TBill36]

You want to buy PHILPB's boat, or someone like him. Most of us on here realize that we're never going to get out what we put into the boat. It's a disease where you get to spend a lot of money working on something that you will never get your money back out of. So find one of us that's selling and join the club.

 

[bumpkin]

Option 1

Hi All,

Looking to make my first purchase, doing lots of research, and zeroing in on my wants/needs. I am planning for live aboard in 40-45 footer. I have a budget of $150K USD (max $200K) and the delta on sales price is dizzying between different vessels.

Welcome aboard.

If you buy a good 15-20 year old used boat you will have a chance at recouping your purchase price should you decide to sell and you will have a reliable boat while you own it. I can't stress reliability enough. It is interesting to see how many boats are stuck at docks waiting on parts or service people of one kind or another.

The ultimate bummer is the unscheduled reliability issues. Once you have a reliability issue it affects your confidence when you want to go out again. I went to the Bahamas for a month mainly because I have not had an unscheduled stop. Plenty of scheduled stops for maintenance but no unscheduled stops.

I, similar to you, started out with no skills.

Mike

 

[Slo-Mocean]

Hi All,

Looking to make my first purchase, doing lots of research, and zeroing in on my wants/needs. I am planning for live aboard in 40-45 footer. I have a budget of $150K USD (max $200K) and the delta on sales price is dizzying between different vessels.

So, was wondering is it better to spend $50-100K on an older boat (1970s-1990s) and then do a big refit…or spend closer to the $150K on something newer and then fix/repair as needed?

I know the cost of a refit is going to vary dramatically based on what is required and the upgrades selected, but is $50K a good ballpark?

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1982-grand-banks-36-classic-8904890/