Oh Joy.... for outboard gasoline storage

[OldDan1943]

https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvi...mc&utm_medium=em_mktg&utm_campaign=power_test

No doubt with California'a influence.
Better buy an extra one now before the forced update

 

[rslifkin]

https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvi...mc&utm_medium=em_mktg&utm_campaign=power_test

No doubt with California'a influence.
Better buy an extra one now before the forced update

Some of those features could be a pain if implemented poorly, but there is a definite advantage to better sealed fuel systems: gas lasts longer with less air exposure. Think about how long a modern car can sit before the gas in it goes bad. So for those who don't go through a lot of gas in their dinghies, this may reduce fuel related issues over time.

 

[psneeld]

I already have the tank and sprayless connectors...not big deal.

The valve only make sense now as in the old days it just put fuel/fumes into the environment....now that it's changed...having pressurized fuel flood my outboard to me is way more of a problem.

unless it's a huge expense or needs to be replaced all the time... no big deal to me.

 

[BandB]

https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvi...mc&utm_medium=em_mktg&utm_campaign=power_test

No doubt with California'a influence.
Better buy an extra one now before the forced update

You site a 2019 article on a change effective January 1, 2011 and then act as if there is something new and horrifying. Really.

Perhaps you've never seen all the leaks on outboard boats on the lakes, all around just the points addressed by the EPA with this requirement. When I was growing up, outboards with portable tanks commonly had fuel leaks. They did two things. Put fuel in the bilge and shut down or drastically hampered the engine performance. Neither of those is good.

 

[diver dave]

The EPA tanks are not a big deal. I"ve been running one for a couple seasons. Actually, since the tank is no long "free breathing", ethanol laced gas should last longer. The tank keeps out the back and forth flow of air, and air contains water...

 

[Gdavid]

You site a 2019 article on a change effective January 1, 2011 and then act as if there is something new and horrifying. Really.

Perhaps you've never seen all the leaks on outboard boats on the lakes, all around just the points addressed by the EPA with this requirement. When I was growing up, outboards with portable tanks commonly had fuel leaks. They did two things. Put fuel in the bilge and shut down or drastically hampered the engine performance. Neither of those is good.

These new EPA above deck gas tank caps are a hazard as far as I'm concerned. Trusting a plastic tank to perform as a pressure vessel containing gasoline vapor in a harsh environment (such as an open boat) is a recipe for disaster. These new caps are far worse than what used to occur, in the past if a vent was left closed on a tank in the sun, it would pressurize the tank and gas would leak once (past the carb's float valve or the weakest point in the fuel line connections). After the tank cooled down, the tank would be below atmospheric pressure and then the next day it would expand back out but probably not leak any more because it purged the previous day and the vent is sealed. With the new EPA caps, it will occur day after day because the cap has a check valve in it allowing air to flow in when the tank cools at night, therefore it will continue to leak every day until the tank is empty.

We don't have pressurized tanks for permanent, below deck tanks, they also don't experience the same temperature swings. It would make more sense to require that above deck tanks are shaded.

The easiest solution I've found is just leaving the cap a little loose, just like having an old vented cap.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

I have a Walker Bay Rib and its a few years old. I have this EPA crap on my dinghy. One is a limiting valve (for lack of a better word) that will only allow me to fill the fuel tank at a really slow rate and only about 80% capacity. On the tank vent there is a charcoal canaster.

Needless to say these items are no longer are on the boat.

 

[jleonard]

The EPA tanks are not a big deal. I"ve been running one for a couple seasons. Actually, since the tank is no long "free breathing", ethanol laced gas should last longer. The tank keeps out the back and forth flow of air, and air contains water...

I agree. I had one for my 15 Yamaha for 8 years maybe and I never had a problem with it or the engine. Tank sat in the sun most of its life during the New England boating season. It would expand and look like it was going to blow but never did. And never forced fuel into the engine as far as I could tell.

 

[AZ2Loop]

I have a Walker Bay Rib and its a few years old. I have this EPA crap on my dinghy. One is a limiting valve (for lack of a better word) that will only allow me to fill the fuel tank at a really slow rate and only about 80% capacity. On the tank vent there is a charcoal canaster.

Needless to say these items are no longer are on the boat.

Along those same lines, it is often the case that the best of intentions have the opposite effect when it comes to the EPA and attempts to be more environmentally friendly. ASD, your dinghy not wanting to take fuel other than VERY slowly is extremely common on today's boats. Stop by a fuel dock and watch how hard it is for many newer (last 3-4 year or so) boats to accept fuel. It all has to do with the venting and attempts to make things better environmentally. I'm sure they were trying to do something good, but it's having the opposite effect. You will see some people splash fuel in the water 10 or 20 times just trying to fill up their new bowrider. It's ridiculous. One can safely say that whoever is engineering these "environmentally friendly" fuel systems has never tried to to put fuel in them. On some boats, it is nearly impossible. Trying to get just 20 or 30 gallons in some of these boats takes 10 or 15 minutes and a dozen splashes into the drink. Meanwhile, some other boaters are circling, burning more fuel, trying to get to the gas dock because it's taking so long. It's bad, and it's really common.

 

[rslifkin]

Along those same lines, it is often the case that the best of intentions have the opposite effect when it comes to the EPA and attempts to be more environmentally friendly. ASD, your dinghy not wanting to take fuel other than VERY slowly is extremely common on today's boats. Stop by a fuel dock and watch how hard it is for many newer (last 3-4 year or so) boats to accept fuel. It all has to do with the venting and attempts to make things better environmentally. I'm sure they were trying to do something good, but it's having the opposite effect. You will see some people splash fuel in the water 10 or 20 times just trying to fill up their new bowrider. It's ridiculous. One can safely say that whoever is engineering these "environmentally friendly" fuel systems has never tried to to put fuel in them. On some boats, it is nearly impossible. Trying to get just 20 or 30 gallons in some of these boats takes 10 or 15 minutes and a dozen splashes into the drink. Meanwhile, some other boaters are circling, burning more fuel, trying to get to the gas dock because it's taking so long. It's really bad, and it's really common.

Some of that isn't necessarily the required systems being bad, but some manufacturers doing a poor job of implementing them. It's shocking how many boats have poorly thought out fuel fill and vent setups.

 

[catalinajack]

Just buy an in expensive aftermarket cap. No more pressure. Just like the old days.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Along those same lines, it is often the case that the best of intentions have the opposite effect when it comes to the EPA and attempts to be more environmentally friendly. ASD, your dinghy not wanting to take fuel other than VERY slowly is extremely common on today's boats. Stop by a fuel dock and watch how hard it is for many newer (last 3-4 year or so) boats to accept fuel. It all has to do with the venting and attempts to make things better environmentally. I'm sure they were trying to do something good, but it's having the opposite effect. You will see some people splash fuel in the water 10 or 20 times just trying to fill up their new bowrider. It's ridiculous. One can safely say that whoever is engineering these "environmentally friendly" fuel systems has never tried to to put fuel in them. On some boats, it is nearly impossible. Trying to get just 20 or 30 gallons in some of these boats takes 10 or 15 minutes and a dozen splashes into the drink. Meanwhile, some other boaters are circling, burning more fuel, trying to get to the gas dock because it's taking so long. It's bad, and it's really common.

True statement. The issue I was having was the pump would shut down as the tank fill would backflush, thus spilling fuel, even when the pump fill rate is slow. Once I removed the EPA crap I didn't have an issue.

In fact I change the way I refuel the dink. I use a 5 gallon gas can with an approved pump. I transfer the gasoline from the gas can to the dinghy tank. It also shuts down when the dinghy tank is full. I carry 20 gallons on board. When I go ashore I refuel the 5 gallon cans.

 

[rgano]

True statement. In fact I change the way I refuel the dink. I use a 5 gallon gas can with an approved pump. I transfer the gasoline from the gas can to the dinghy tank. It also shuts down when the dinghy tank is full. I carry 20 gallons on board. When I go ashore I refuel the 5 gallon cans.

I cannot access the diesel fills on my silly little boat with a five-gallon container due to the arrangement of the handrails on the skinny side decks. My solution for refueling from a bunch of containers was to use a siphon made from clear vinyl tubing. It was not one of those rigs using a built-in hand-squeeze thingy like sold in auto parts stores. I just pushed the hose into the bottom of the container and used a second short piece on tubing to initially pressurize the container by blowing through it while holding a rag around the two tubes where they ran into the container's mouth the plug it for a couple of second. As long as the bottom of the container is above the fluid level in the tank to be filled, the flow will continue as in any normal siphon. An electric pump may be handier in some cases but never safer.

I finally gave up on the small containers and now use a 30-gallon wheeled container with rotary hand pump which I roll down a ramp onto my pier from the back of my pickup. It won't start a siphon, but it is still easy to use and empties in about ten minutes of easy pumping. If I wished, I could use the two-tubes method above running them through the big filler tube of the wheeled container, but with the rotary pump, not a single drop of fuel ends up on a rag after cleaning the vinvyl tube which was submerged in the refuel container.

I never bothered messing about with such small amounts of fuel with the 640-gallon Grand Banks which I just took to the fuel docks, but the cost difference using off-road diesel instead of fuel dock-priced diesel makes it worthwhile for this smaller boat.

 

[AZ2Loop]

True statement. The issue I was having was the pump would shut down as the tank fill would backflush, thus spilling fuel, even when the pump fill rate is slow. Once I removed the EPA crap I didn't have an issue....

Oh, I know. It's pathetic. Hang around a marina fuel dock and you will hear the choice words boat owners have for their fuel systems on many new boats. Even at a very slow fill rate it goes a little something like this: Barely squeeze the trigger, trickle in some fuel, backsplash, splash fuel into the water, say a few four letter words, repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Twist the pump angle around and see if you change the angle of the dispenser going into the fuel system will help. Sometimes they find the magic angle and get a gallon or even two in before it clicks off and backsplashes more fuel into the drink. They look at you say something like "my last boat never did this, I'm sorry I'm taking so long". It is this way for MANY new boats. 18 minutes later, and 42 splashes of fuel into the water, they have maybe 17 gallons (they wanted 30) of fuel and give up. Meanwhile 2 or 3 older boats filled up on the other pump without a single drop going overboard in the time the new boat was trying. Nice work, EPA. Well done.