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Old 09-24-2021, 10:57 AM   #1
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Modifying the Jones Act Cruise Ships Exempt

https://gcaptain.com/senator-murkows...eid=5b70bcca05
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Old 09-24-2021, 11:15 AM   #2
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A blind man could see this coming
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:23 PM   #3
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I love the large cruise ship companies! They build and register offshore to avoid paying US and domestic shipyard rates... Along comes covid and they apply to US to "bail them out" (we didn't}. Now they want to be Jones act exempt....sheesh! Talk about wanting it all...except paying there fair share to the country of their target market...
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:32 PM   #4
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They also overrun their small destination ports, demand huge commissions from local vendors of tours and activities to get their guests' business, and largely monopolize the passenger spending for themselves.

They are a blight on sustainable travel imho.

Also a big factor in the initial spread of COVID...
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Old 09-24-2021, 01:01 PM   #5
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They also overrun their small destination ports, demand huge commissions from local vendors of tours and activities to get their guests' business, and largely monopolize the passenger spending for themselves.

They are a blight on sustainable travel imho.

Also a big factor in the initial spread of COVID...
People who love cruises also seem to enjoy extolling the joy of cruises to everyone they meet especially if they know you spend time on boats. My mother in law is determined to convince us that a cruise would be the perfect vacation and it could not appeal any less to me. Following a set itinerary that is completely out of my control, with throngs of people trying to do the same thing at the same time is the exact opposite about everything I enjoy running my own boat. I am glad for the people that enjoy them but it is the antithesis of small boat cruising as far as I can tell.
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Old 09-24-2021, 01:05 PM   #6
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They don't need an exemption and shouldn't get one. I have cruised Alaska and really liked starting in Vancouver with a final stop in Victoria.

Jones Act is important for US Shipbuilding, the Cruise lines are just getting greedy

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Old 09-24-2021, 01:21 PM   #7
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People who love cruises also seem to enjoy extolling the joy of cruises to everyone they meet especially if they know you spend time on boats. My mother in law is determined to convince us that a cruise would be the perfect vacation and it could not appeal any less to me. Following a set itinerary that is completely out of my control, with throngs of people trying to do the same thing at the same time is the exact opposite about everything I enjoy running my own boat. I am glad for the people that enjoy them but it is the antithesis of small boat cruising as far as I can tell.
Yet, despite that not being the scope of the discussion, you spent a paragraph extolling your disdain for something you've admittedly never experienced.

We love both boating and cruises. They would be like comparing apples and oranges. You can avoid the throngs easily.
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Old 09-24-2021, 01:31 PM   #8
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Of course the Jones Act has been hotly debated for decades. The cruise line implications are just one distorted, twisted angle of the whole byzantine thing. The Wall Street Journal's opinion page has been hammering on it lately, although I won't post any links because they're all behind a paywall and I don't want to get into politics anyway. It was a blatantly protectionist law since its adoption of course, just like sugar or agriculture or lots of other areas, and we can have a public policy or economics debate on that forever -- although not here. Politics aside though, just as a practical matter, over the decades and as the world changes, in my view the Jones Act has become a relic that's become more and more contorted and produces absurd results that are increasingly illogical and downright silly. Again, I'm just talking practicality for anything that moves on the water. It's gotten to the point where the law irrationally protects domestic shipping even though we no longer have the domestic ships or shipping capacity or even the merchant marine personnel to protect anymore, or at least not enough to meet the country's demands. Like this for example, this is what I mean by absurd results as a practical matter. Severe market distortion:

https://www.cato.org/blog/east-coast...eged-jones-act
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Old 09-24-2021, 01:33 PM   #9
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Yet, despite that not being the scope of the discussion, you spent a paragraph extolling your disdain for something you've admittedly never experienced.

We love both boating and cruises. They would be like comparing apples and oranges. You can avoid the throngs easily.
You are right on all counts
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Old 09-24-2021, 02:06 PM   #10
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I wonder if the cruise industry is pushing for this ONLY as a workaround should they be locked out of Canada in the future. I am sure if it were passed, the cruise industry would still stop in Vancouver and Victoria as restocking may be cheaper, and the demand is/was here.
I only took one cruise to Alaska so only experienced a crowded boarding terminal once, the demand was there then.
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Old 09-24-2021, 02:22 PM   #11
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I hate those giant floating petri dishes. I just had to say that.
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Old 09-24-2021, 02:31 PM   #12
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For my wife and me it's the best way to travel away from our local waters. Certainly not taking my Albin to the Med transatlantic.
The whole world is a petri dish to some extent. Wash your hands, don't touch your face. Repeat.
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Old 09-24-2021, 02:42 PM   #13
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I have less than zero interest in taking a "cruise" on one of these leviathans, but until he died this year I had a good friend who enjoyed them a lot, and he very seldom left the ship unless it was on his own terms to hire a taxi to drive him to whatever sights he wished to see. One of his favorite routes was a trans-Atlantic run between Barcelona an Ft Lauderdale which he took several times because he enjoyed being at sea so much. He was a gregarious but solo cruiser who took several trips a year and enjoyed meeting new people aboard.

I personally think it is a matter of time before there is a major terrorist issue with one of these ships.

On the tax issue, while I have no clue what fees these foreign flagged and crewed vessels pay, it would seem simple enough to enact any directed tax law the US deems appropriate (note I do not say "fair") to wring more money from them.
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Old 09-24-2021, 03:24 PM   #14
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Big picture, I see the Jones Act as more of a national security thing. We've already lost so much capability in other areas. Ship builders and mariners are resources we probably shouldn't let totally die domestically. Yeah, I know. I'm all for cheap stuff too. And you can't go protectionist for everything. But we've all seen the problems with outsourcing other capabilities (computer chips for cars come to mind.)

There are no easy answers. It's a nuanced issue.
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Old 09-24-2021, 04:00 PM   #15
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Just reading this thread you see the debate and multiply that by many and you'll quickly gather the fact that congress is highly unlikely to do anything. No one doubts the Jones Act needs looking at but everyone has different ideas on how to fix it.
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Old 09-24-2021, 05:39 PM   #16
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I hate those giant floating petri dishes. I just had to say that.
Succinctly said. I agree.

Too much dna in one place.
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Old 09-24-2021, 06:11 PM   #17
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Just reading this thread you see the debate and multiply that by many and you'll quickly gather the fact that congress is highly unlikely to do anything. No one doubts the Jones Act needs looking at but everyone has different ideas on how to fix it.

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Old 09-24-2021, 06:24 PM   #18
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I think the Jones Act is fine as is. The purpose is to ensure a shipbuilding industry, maintain trained mariners, and ships in US waters meet our standards. It was written 8 years after the Titanic disaster.
Coastwise shipping means ships traveling between US ports and ships leaving and returning to the same port, Like fishing boats and oil rig supply boats.

Without the Jones Act we could have ships from any nation moving people and cargo between US ports. Most yards that build yachts or commercial boats would close, and large shipyards not doing military work would probably disappear.
You could have Bangladesh or Philippine ships for ferries. At least one capsizes every year. Without the Jones Act shipping would go to the cheapest operator.
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Old 09-24-2021, 06:37 PM   #19
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I don't mean to touch off a debate about the Jones Act provisions per se, that debate may never end, but here's the fundamental problem:

https://www.citypopulation.de/en/wor...erchantmarine/

...In a country of 330 million people. Or look at the per capita column. There's the fundamental absurdity. It's like a protectionist act for ice delivery guys after refrigerators, or horse carriage drivers.
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Old 09-24-2021, 07:23 PM   #20
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Just reading this thread you see the debate and multiply that by many and you'll quickly gather the fact that congress is highly unlikely to do anything. No one doubts the Jones Act needs looking at but everyone has different ideas on how to fix it.
Well they also said the Alaska congressional team had no chance getting the temporary provision through Congress. Critics were proven wrong.
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