Long showers

[O C Diver]

Ted, behave of mild bleach solution aboard which is chlorine as you know. Chlorine attacks seal rings, pump valves & diaphragm, double check-valves, pressure regulator. Moreover chlorine becomes salt when mixed with hot water (in water heater) then generates an oxydation reaction (yes !) in the hot water tank of water heater.

Pilou, the commissioning is a short one time treatment to sanitize the tanks after they had been sitting for 2 years. This was followed by several flushings with municipal (very slight chlorine level) water. There are several threads on this process in the archives. Really no effect on equipment for such a short exposure to a modestly elevated chlorine level.

Ted

 

[HeadedToTexas]

If you are thinking about modifying your boat to get a larger supply, is the cost of that modification more costly than installing a water maker? Cruise RO are not that much, and the parts can be installed where the room will allow.

Almost certainly it would. Excellent point.

Perhaps the right combination of batteries and charging with a DC water maker is the right approach? For me, I don't feel the need for a high volume water maker. Is is practical to run a DC water maker for several hours on solar charged batteries?

 

[BandB]

Surprised Wifey B hasn't chimed in with the suggestion to combine that into one 6-minute shower.

Wifey B: We do shower together. However, 6 minutes doesn't get it done. Probably average 15-20 minutes assuming we don't get carried away.

Highly recommend couples do it, whether or not it actually saves water. I think most of the time it does. If you behave, it does.

 

[Yahoo 1]

Wifey B: We do shower together.

I guess to save water ?

 

[BandB]

I guess to save water ?

Wifey B: Of course, Ms. Innocent Angel Pilou.

 

[Yahoo 1]

Wifey B: Of course, Ms. Innocent Angel Pilou.

Green attitude !

 

[Yahoo 1]

Agree bleach may be a bit harsh, but saying H202 "is water, with an extra O atom" is a stretch. Some molecules can go from benign to deadly with a few atom changes.

Lets not get into a discussion on physical / chemical properties, but since I'm a medical I have never seen someone could die because of drinking hydrogen peroxide treated water, so far...

 

[ksanders]

Almost certainly it would. Excellent point.

Perhaps the right combination of batteries and charging with a DC water maker is the right approach? For me, I don't feel the need for a high volume water maker. Is is practical to run a DC water maker for several hours on solar charged batteries?

Yes you could run a DC watermaker. I had a Katadyne unit that produced 7GPH and used I think 12 or 15 amps DC. A great time to make water was underway.

 

[menzies]

Wifey B: We do shower together. However, 6 minutes doesn't get it done. Probably average 15-20 minutes assuming we don't get carried away.

Highly recommend couples do it, whether or not it actually saves water. I think most of the time it does. If you behave, it does.

But then you need a shower after the shower!

 

[FlyWright]

My shower and both sink faucets have toggling "Navy" valves. On my boat, daily Navy showers are standard. We don't allow the water to run needlessly when brushing, washing or doing the dishes. As Sunchaser pointed out, having a toggle ON/OFF at the shower/faucet eliminates the need to adjust temp each time it's cycled back on.

Last year I did a solo 14 day trip without refilling my 75 gallon FW tank. I returned home with 1/4 tank indicating on my tank monitor. I was solo onboard and took a Navy shower daily. That comes to less than 5 gallons per day total including showers, hand washing and washing dishes.

BTW, I carry another 25 gallons in 1 gallon bottles filled with RO water from home. That water provides for all my rinsing, cooking and daily coffee & ice tea.

 

[Crusty Chief]

Crusty, with a name like that perhaps you should shower longer? 8^)

I resemble that!

 

[BandB]

But then you need a shower after the shower!

Wifey B: That could turn into a circular reference so you can't do one or the other every time.

 

[Fletcher500]

Lets not get into a discussion on physical / chemical properties, but since I'm a medical I have never seen someone could die because of drinking hydrogen peroxide treated water, so far...

H20 is water.

H202 is hydrogen peroxide. Diluted to less than 5 percent, humans can deal with it.

Formulations of H202 are strong oxidizers and have been used for rocket fuel.

Stating water is similar to hydrogen peroxide, except for one oxygen atom is false.

Being an ME major, my chemistry classes ended over 30 years ago, so if someone with more recent chemistry training believes that is incorerect, then let me know.

Facts do matter.

 

[Yahoo 1]

H20 is water.

H202 is hydrogen peroxide. Diluted to less than 5 percent, humans can deal with it.

Formulations of H202 are strong oxidizers and have been used for rocket fuel.

Stating water is similar to hydrogen peroxide, except for one oxygen atom is false.

Being an ME major, my chemistry classes ended over 30 years ago, so if someone with more recent chemistry training believes that is incorerect, then let me know.

Facts do matter.

Just calm down.

 

[Bruce B]

An on off button on the shower head saves a lot of water. That way no re-adjusting temperature by messing with valves.

BTW Bruce B, I bet those dogs will claim your brand new boat real quick. Hopefully you have an aft deck shower for them.

There is a cockpit shower in the boat.
They will learn about it pretty quickly too.
Bruce

 

[Lepke]

Having water and Hot water is no problem on a powered boat of decent size. You need a tank big enough not to go cold on #2 user. And probably a water maker. If money is an issue, a semi manual water maker like Cruise RO sells should be affordable.
I spent several youth years in hot/humid climates and now limit myself to cool/cold climates Having a shower, whenever is a demand.

 

[menzies]

Isn't a dog shower a hose and a bucket?

 

[Dougcole]

Isn't a dog shower a hose and a bucket?

Who needs a bucket? Just hit em with the hose, pour the shampoo right on their back and start rubbing.

I had a lab for a long time who was a sweet, spoiled house dog but also a really good duck dog. I hunted her a lot and when we would get home I'd give her a bath with a hose in the front yard. She would shiver like she was dying, though she never minded breaking through the frozen mud to swim out to get a duck.

My brother bathes his 100 plus pound lab in his master bathroom tub. I can't imagine the hair in there afterwords.

 

[Moonstruck]

My boat holds 300 gallons. If there are 2 people on the boat, I could stretch that out to 15 days with nice showers each day. A significant part of water consumption is also how you do dishes, don't leave the water running. Then there is laundry at 11 gallons per load. I could certainly use less, but it's really not necessary.

Then there is reality on the Loop. How long will you go without stopping for groceries, night out for dinner, laundry (if no washing machine on board), and sight seeing ? There are also some places with free docking and water for the night. Maybe a better way to figure out the water part of the equation is to figure it backwards. As an example : if you stopped once a week for groceries, to do laundry and other general cruising maintenance, you would need water for 6 days. If you and your wife needs combined for everything were 20 gallons per day, then 120 to 150 gallons would seem reasonable. Maybe you need less; maybe you stop more often.

Ted

Ted, we can fill our 160 gal tanks in the Bahamas for about 40 bucks. So, that's about 40 bucks a week at the most for us. I usually take an evening dip, and as BruceK said shower off with fresh water on the swim platform. Prell shampoo will even suds in salt water. For our purposes a water maker is not worth the trouble or expense. If we were cruising full time it could be a different matter.

 

[O C Diver]

Ted, we can fill our 160 gal tanks in the Bahamas for about 40 bucks. So, that's about 40 bucks a week at the most for us. I usually take an evening dip, and as BruceK said shower off with fresh water on the swim platform. Prell shampoo will even suds in salt water. For our purposes a water maker is not worth the trouble or expense. If we were cruising full time it could be a different matter.

Back in the '70s, taking groups on live aboard dive trips often included Joy bathes. Jump in the ocean, get out, lather up with Joy dish washing soap, and then a quick rinse. Joy seemed to keep the salt from the rinse from sticking to your body. .....or maybe it was beer and mixed drinks.

Ted

 

[FlyWright]

Back in the '70s, taking groups on live aboard dive trips often included Joy bathes. Jump in the ocean, get out, lather up with Joy dish washing soap, and then a quick rinse. Joy seemed to keep the salt from the rinse from sticking to your body. .....or maybe it was beer and mixed drinks.

Ted

Now that there sounds like some fun boating!

 

[Dougcole]

Yeah, we mainly cruise the Bahamas as well, generally 3 weeks at a time a couple of times a year. We are debating the watermaker question, but so far the answer is not worth it. When we retire in 5 years or so our plan is to stretch our cruises to about 3 months and to go to more remote areas farther south. I think a WM may be in our plans then.

Anybody seen these?

Rainman Desalination

 

[dhays]

Yeah, we mainly cruise the Bahamas as well, generally 3 weeks at a time a couple of times a year. We are debating the watermaker question, but so far the answer is not worth it. When we retire in 5 years or so our plan is to stretch our cruises to about 3 months and to go to more remote areas farther south. I think a WM may be in our plans then.

Anybody seen these?

Rainman Desalination

As someone who would only need a watermaker occasionally those look promising. As near as I can tell they are about the same price as a Crusier RO system. They have the advantage/disadvantage of not needing to be installed.

 

[Dougcole]

Yeah, they look good to me as well. I like the thought of taking it off of the boat when not in use, frees up space and stuff just seems to hold up better when it is not exposed to salt air, even if it is down in the engine room.

I also like that I could move it from boat to boat or resell it if not needed. No more holes in the hull is nice. No installation saves a lot of hassle or expense too.

I also like the pressure washer end accessory. It would be nice to spray down the boat in a remote anchorage.

 

[O C Diver]

Yeah, we mainly cruise the Bahamas as well, generally 3 weeks at a time a couple of times a year. We are debating the watermaker question, but so far the answer is not worth it. When we retire in 5 years or so our plan is to stretch our cruises to about 3 months and to go to more remote areas farther south. I think a WM may be in our plans then.

Anybody seen these?

Rainman Desalination

If I was going with one of those, it would have to be electric. No gasoline on the boat, and don't want another engine to maintain. More likely that I would have a built in unit.

Ted

 

[User915]

H20 is water.

H202 is hydrogen peroxide. Diluted to less than 5 percent, humans can deal with it.

Formulations of H202 are strong oxidizers and have been used for rocket fuel.

Stating water is similar to hydrogen peroxide, except for one oxygen atom is false.

Being an ME major, my chemistry classes ended over 30 years ago, so if someone with more recent chemistry training believes that is incorerect, then let me know.

Facts do matter.

I don't want to cast doubt on your range of skills, I would never do that, but my opinion is that you are frightening people here when talking about "deadly" risk and Hydrogen Peroxide "used for rocket fuel". Everything is all a question of how much and what sort, it's all about the right concentration.

Why mild bleach solution is safe and useful for disinfection purposes while chlorine operated as a weapon of mass destruction in World War I (90,000 died plus 1,250,000 injuried per chlorine chemical weapons attacks) and somewhere in the Middle East more recently ? Because everything is a question of balance with the right parameters.

In European Union there are many consulting firms in security technologies of fresh water treatment that promote, as well industrial firms who are manufacturing and exporting, Hydrogen Peroxide products for fresh water disinfection, whose Lenntech company (technical note attached) which credibility and professionalism could not been called into question.

Moreover, the European Directorate General for Health, also the French Ministry of Public Health, both carried out with the assistance of a number of scientific experts, regularly remind State parties, public institutions and private-enterprise bodies of their obligation concerning use of Hydrogen Peroxide products for fresh water disinfection (official document attached), in particular in combating forms of legionella bacteria.

As well, the highly skilled US Food & Drug Administration concludes that the proposed use of the additive (a mixture of silver nitrate and hydrogen peroxide) is safe and the additive will achieve its intended technical effect as an antimicrobial agent under the proposed conditions of use [Federal Register: March 18, 2009 (Volume 74, Number 51), Rules and Regulations].

Therefore, Sir, I am sorry to say that you've misled the people here. Balance, in everything, is the important concept once again.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Just the 2 of us most times, 300 gallons of fresh water a water maker and sometimes that isn't enuff. We cruise for long periods and it just requires a bit of work and planning. Run the generator, try and make water, wash cloths, do dishes, showers and you get the drift.
We're not "Camping" and Dont plan too change our habits. Its all a matter of taste.
My suggestion is make more room for holding more water first, water maker second. Enjoy the time onboard with comfort and you'll enjoy the trip more.

I'm with Crusty. We have a nice shower and like to shower. 11 gallon hot water heater. Crusty's use of his water maker has convinced me to install one, especially after he filled my boat twice. And yes being down wind he does need a shower more than once a week.....

 

[bayview]

water makers work best in clear clean sea water. In muddy rivers or ICW areas the filter clog quickly. They also don't remove bacteria so in anchorages or downstream from towns they may not be ideal. So IMO a watermaker depends on where you plant to cruise .

For The ICW and loop with marinas readily available why bother?

 

[BandB]

water makers work best in clear clean sea water. In muddy rivers or ICW areas the filter clog quickly. They also don't remove bacteria so in anchorages or downstream from towns they may not be ideal. So IMO a watermaker depends on where you plant to cruise .

For The ICW and loop with marinas readily available why bother?

A couple of clarifications of things you've posted. Any watermaker I've run has always included a sterilizer to remove micro-organisms including bacteria and viruses. Our tests have shown the water equal to our home city water in that regard. Also, there are various filters available to handle clogging conditions and to handle fuel and oil conditions. There are oil water separators, plankton filters, commercial pre-filters, multi-media filters and more. A watermaker isn't simply the reverse osmosis unit but when installed and used you must also include the other associated equipment.

On the ICW and loop can save trips to marinas, can provide more water for cruising, for consumption while underway.

I'm not saying everyone needs one but saying I like having one and as to water quality I'd rather have it than a substantial percentage of marinas.

 

[Larry M]

water makers work best in clear clean sea water. In muddy rivers or ICW areas the filter clog quickly. They also don't remove bacteria so in anchorages or downstream from towns they may not be ideal. So IMO a watermaker depends on where you plant to cruise ....

I believe RO systems do remove bacteria and viruses. Isn't that one of the selling points? That applies to home and marine RO units.

West Marine's Web Site:

How they work—Reverse osmosis

Reverse osmosis watermakers produce fresh water by pressurizing salt water to around 800psi and forcing it through a semi-permeable membrane. Water molecules can pass through, but practically all contaminants (such as salt, bacteria, viruses, grit, etc.) are left behind....

Parker Viilage Marine's Web Site:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5) So I don’t need a UV purifier if I have watermaker? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Even though the water leaving an RO unit should be free of any biological contamination, the same can’t be said for the water once it comes in contact with a water tank that is frequently filled with tap water from the dock – so a UV purifier is still a good idea.[/FONT]