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Old 11-04-2017, 03:40 AM   #81
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DroneGuy...can you confirm what kind of boat it was ?
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Old 11-04-2017, 05:27 AM   #82
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Thanks for the update.

Do you know if they have recovered the boat?
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Old 11-04-2017, 08:06 AM   #83
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I guess I need to learn to just accept stuff. This whole thing still seems odd to me but I have nothing factual to base that on except it plowed, rolled, sank. Am I the only one who's skeptical? DroneGuy comes to his defense? Knows all about the owner's 30 year history? Guy is alone, boat looks heavy in the water...just out for a cruise? Huh?
Like I said I just need to accept it I guess.

But I see stories of boats that get swamped, often off the FL coasts, and they don't go down like a stone. There is some air in the hull under the floor and they float around, bow sticking up, etc. for a good while. Even center consoles.

I have a 1976 Aquasport center console, built in Hialeah. That's 41 years ago. It had block foam around the perimeter under the gunnels. I don't know if that would save it but Aquasport thought it would help.

It also has the original transom, which drops down pretty low...first at the gunnels, then lower again at the middle. You might think that was a bad design, and when people rebuild these boats they usually raise the transoms flush with the gunnels all the way across and add a motor bracket such as an Armstrong.
But the low transom had a purpose : theoretically water can't get any deeper than the transom height. And up forward of the console the floor is raised the same height. So there's really not much open volume below that level. Self-bailing floor and with the exception of small openings up high under the gunnels, not much way for water to get below the floor.
I hope it never fills with water but my guess is it would float for a while if I couldn't gun the engine and dump 80% of it out the back.
Rolling over is another story...don't know what would happen. Would it level out? Dunno.
I've run big inlets in the boat with confused seas. It's bow is very buoyant. Not saying I couldn't bury it and I'm super careful but I've never felt I was close.
I did take a breaking wave along the beachfront once with 4 of us on board. Probably 4" of water on the floor until it drained. But really didn't feel like the boat was compromised. Back on the trailer, about 6 ounces of water in the hull.
As you can tell...I like my old Aquasport...

Anyway, sorry I'm questioning this. Nothing personal.
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Old 11-04-2017, 08:45 AM   #84
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I believe its a requirement of boats that are 20' or less to float level with the gunnels even if swamped, but this requirement doesn't exist for larger boats.
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Old 11-04-2017, 09:39 AM   #85
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Benthic2, menzies, CDreamer

Was having morning coffee before going to help a friend with his drone so figured I could come here real quick...

Benthic2: No I don't know what the boat was but I can find out (see below)...
menzies: Don't know that either either...see below...
CDreamer: I won't take anything personal because you don't know me and your obviously speculating/doubting about stuff you have no facts (or contacts) about (don't take that personal)...

I was there when it happened and I've been in contact with the Family...
They seem to be Very Nice People (they found/contacted me)...
I didn't talk details with them, other than we're ALL glad that he's OK...
That's all I'll say/post about them because I do and will continue to respect their privacy (try to imagine how You would feel if this happened to You)...

My hands were shaking when it happened but I continued to fly as smoothly as I could, and I STILL get goose-bumps and thumping-heart EVERY time I watch the video...
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Old 11-04-2017, 09:48 AM   #86
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I don't care if he's been doing it 60 years, he still didn't know what he was doing as he ended upside down. Drone guy overlooks the part about how his boat was sitting and details like that plus the statements regarding water in his bilge. So basically some key elements to the story. I'd understand him not having that information, but he sure had the details of doing it over 30 years. Was very defensive about himself against accusations I wasn't aware were being made.

I don't believe in Lady Luck causing this accident. Perhaps the boater was the victim of a combination of issues, but the conditions were as they were, his boat was as it was and his experience was as it was. There wasn't a whirlpool which showed up to sweep his boat away. He either had some unforeseen issue with his boat or made or was incorrect in his estimation of the situation. It doesn't mean I don't feel bad for him. It's unfortunate.

Accidents don't happen because of luck. They happen because of a combination of conditions and circumstances. There was a cause or a combination of causes of this accident and Lady Luck wasn't one of them. I would think the boater himself would have a description of how it happened and what he felt caused it. It could be all the elements combining in the worst possible of combinations.

I guess I'm just confused because Drone Guy didn't come here to inform us of anything, just to defend himself and the boater (without disclosing his relationship or source of knowledge of the boater) and direct us to his youtube where eventually his video may be found.

One specific too. He states the operator was off throttle when the wave pushed him. Well, off throttle probably wasn't a good choice in retrospect. I would think right now, the boater is both thankful to be alive and also himself thinking of what he might have done differently.
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Old 11-04-2017, 10:26 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Benthic2 View Post
I believe its a requirement of boats that are 20' or less to float level with the gunnels even if swamped, but this requirement doesn't exist for larger boats.
Dont believe the floatation regulation too much, I have salvaged quite a few i thought should have been floating but still were sitting on the botton.

Cant say I checked all to see if the engine was larger than permitted, but many were OK on horsepower. Maybe too heavy with the after market add ons such as second batteries, swim steps, etc....
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Old 11-04-2017, 10:42 AM   #88
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I don’t think it’s very complicated.

A wave snuck up behind him, pushed his stern up high and of course that pushed his bow down into the next wave .. because it was there. He should have been further fwd between the wave crests. Takes throttle control and concentration but that’s the drill.
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:01 AM   #89
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Not always that simple when crest to crest is barely longer than the boat length.

Plus there are standing waves in some inlets and rollers from swell action that make the wave period vary.

If the guy has been running that inlet forever, he should have expected the unexpected better than most, but it could have been a one in a million combo for him and his boat.

Not always easy peazy, but not always that bad either....

Textbook manuevering is good right up until the textbook doesnt cover the situation you are in. Then only experience and quick reflexes might save you.
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:24 AM   #90
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I donít have he experience that move of you do, but in looking at that video numerous times, it sure seems as if the boat was riding too low and my impression is that the stern was lifted, there was a bit of delay in how much the bow dropped. This would be consistent with the possibility of there being a lot of water in the boat.

The owner may have lots of experience with that inlet and with that boat. But if this was the first time he attempted the crossing laden with a bunch of water in the bilge, it would behave very differently than he was used to.

I appreciate droneguy giving us what additional information he was able.

Glad the owner is OK, it could have gone much worse for him.
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:58 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by yachtbrokerguy View Post
Soon after getting my captains license in 1973 I ran a 55' steel crew boat with a pair of Detroit Diesel 12V 71 engines in and out of that same inlet for two summers. I was taking crew to a dredge off the beach for beach re-nourishment, four trips a day, so 8 trips through Jupiter Inlet each day.
The Atlantic Coast pilot then stated that it was not a navigable inlet and there was a big sign post on the ICW warning not to use the inlet. I knew where the shoals were and where the waves would build, but if there was any kind of a big swell I would go south to the Lake Worth (Palm Beach) Inlet. That added a lot of time to the trip but I always has passengers and never wanted to take a chance. The dredge guys would complain about the extra time but none ever had to swim to the beach.
And that sign is still there although if I remember right they took out the part about "Non-Navigable" and it simply says "Dangerous". Before I got the trawler I had a 24' Pursuit CC. Many times I would cruise down the alley to the inlet and just turn around and go play on the ICW for the day. Just not that dedicated. Sometimes I reminded myself that I would have to come back in even if going out seemed OK. More than once I came back to the inlet and didn't like what I saw or felt. Did as you did, go down to Lake Worth and come back up on the ICW. Jupiter Inlet sucks a significant portion of the time and ALL the time with an east wind and ebb tide. Will say that with the trawler it is a different game but still feel like I am rolling dice at times.

After looking at the video again...there were some waves and what looks like an ebb tide but that inlet can be far worse than that.
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Old 11-04-2017, 12:42 PM   #92
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Wow...

Batteries still charging here so:
Good thing I know from 17 years on boards to take things with a grain of salt...lol...

I came here to give facts/details that I "know" and not BS about details I don't know...
There's a reason they (FAA) never call airplane crashes Accidents...
It's because they are ALL "a series of events that end in Tragedy", whether it be operator error, conditions and or malfunction...

It is my opinion not only as a witness but the only person that has HD video (that I have watched many times) that this even wasn't an accident (even thought FWC called it that when I talked with him at the Inlet)...

I can't and won't Blame the Man that lost his boat because it was "a series of events that ended in Tragedy"...
No one thing caused this and it for SURE wouldn't have happened if the Wave Frequency (wave length) vs Boat Length weren't as they were at the moment this Event happened (why I said Lady Luck wasn't on his side at that moment)...
The original TWELVE minute Flight/video shows many things (like how the waves and boat were acting over minutes rather than seconds)...

Thanks to those who appreciate me coming here to share what I "Know" (so far) and it's fine with me if no-one Subs on my channel... I just wanted to let people know how they can be sure to see the video when it gets put up (takes HOURS for me to edit minutes of video) and I simply don't have the time for that (or anymore of this) right now IE read Welcome Mat to see that I'm the Care Taker of my Mother (not there that she has dementia and it's been 24/7 for 22-MONTHS) so far, so you can believe me or not I don't Care

Have a nice weekend folks, a man Racing his Bike hundreds of miles away just now mailed me Data from his last run (1/4-mile = 7.59 @ 169mph) so I can Tune his bike for him
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Old 11-04-2017, 03:15 PM   #93
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Drone / Kawasaki ZRX1200R Turbo Guy:

"...he was off-throttle before he got pushed into the wave."

So let me see if I have this right:

You are on shore, flying your drone around the inlet. A center console appears some distance off shore. For "minutes" you filmed this boat running along with enough clarity to know "how the waves and boat were acting."

Let's say he was only going 15 'mph'. And let's say that you have 3 minutes of the additional footage covering that period of time. So you video'd him running for at least 3/4 of a mile before the crash. That is, honestly, excellent drone-flying.

Anyway he's going along, and you're on shore. Wind is "20+ mph" so there's noise...waves on the rocks, wind noise, people around, seagulls squawking, whatever. You're looking at the screen and keeping him in view. And at the moment he suddenly nose dives, you specifically remember that he "was off-throttle".

Dude, you have an amazing combination of manual dexterity, visual concentration, and long-term auditory memory.

I admit I'm curious: you shot this video, then learning of this thread on Trawler Forum, you registered. You spent many hours editing, in order to bring us "real" information. You said he's a 'Very Nice Guy''. And yet as I read your last post are you saying that in your opinion this WASNT an accident?
Since you have 12 minutes of footage, some of it presumably before the crash, what leads you to say that?
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Old 11-04-2017, 04:07 PM   #94
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CD; not sure where you are going with this. Jupiter inlet is not that wide to not hear an inboard power setting, especially if not a lot of boats around. Are you thinking this is some kind of conspiracy to get more vid views? Who cares if drone guy calls this a non-accident? I suspect he didn't mean to say the sinking was done on purpose. He was trying to give some sort of aviation investigation slant to this

I learned boating at Jupiter inlet, I lived in a house about 500 yards away from the ocean and inlet. After college, most of my small boat inlet transits were done at Boynton inlet, even worse of an inlet, mostly in inboards. After looking at the vid, given the double whammy of a very low bow for whatever reason, and the short distance between crests, (and still reducing), I don't think I would have done better. i would have sunk the boat, if I was driving it. Now, on the other hand, having that low bow (free water?) is not something I would have started that transit with. Lake Worth inlet is a bit of a haul, but he would still have had the boat.
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Old 11-04-2017, 04:53 PM   #95
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DroneGuy,

I also had some initial comments about how, and why.

Your footage was very solid.

I also fly mine over the ocean as well. It is amazing the things that pop up when sitting in front of the computer to edit the raw footage that was not visible on the screen while flying it.

Stick around, and keep posting more vid's.
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Old 11-04-2017, 08:23 PM   #96
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Drone / Kawasaki ZRX1200R Turbo Guy:

"...he was off-throttle before he got pushed into the wave."

So let me see if I have this right:

You are on shore, flying your drone around the inlet. A center console appears some distance off shore. For "minutes" you filmed this boat running along with enough clarity to know "how the waves and boat were acting."

Let's say he was only going 15 'mph'. And let's say that you have 3 minutes of the additional footage covering that period of time. So you video'd him running for at least 3/4 of a mile before the crash. That is, honestly, excellent drone-flying.
diver dave you are correct on aircraft analogy...
IMO this was an unfortunate chain of events = not accident...

Fletcher500 Thank you and I attached my favorite Boat Follow here for you Not sure but I think? you might be able to see the waves better in this HD video???

CDreamer (at risk of getting banned from here)...
You are Utterly Clueless with your Rambling,
(but Thank You, I thought my Flying was OK considering how Windy it was)...
This Sir. will be my last comment/reply to anything you might spew at me in the future...
1: I have powerful binoculars to watch for boats, NOT from ground/water level but from on top of the Jetty so I actually had to wait for him to get closer "before I took off to go out to him"...
2: I met the boat about 1/4 mile out so seeing/watching the waves over and over and over in HD on a 24" monitor = YES you can see what the wave action was/is doing...
3: (lastly) Since the wind was blowing "towards shore" YES myself and several other people "that witnessed this" from the Jetty (and some of us talked about it after I landed) all heard his motor/throttle actions maybe 200 yards offshore... And because the boat went down LESS THAN 200Ft from where I was standing, I can say with 100% confidence that he was Off-Throttle Twice before Surfing down into the swell...

Carry on folks, nothing else to see here

PLEASE forgive me for it saying Sport Fish at the end, rather than Open Fish or Center Console...

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Old 11-05-2017, 07:58 AM   #97
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When I was 11, I caught a 29 lb snook with 6 lb test line off those rocks shown
One day, I saw a snook in the mouth of a large hammerhead shark maybe 10' off the same rocks.
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Old 11-05-2017, 09:57 AM   #98
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CDreamer (at risk of getting banned from here)...
You are Utterly Clueless with your Rambling,
And you are utterly clueless with your lack of knowledge of boat handling and what you saw and choose to build your case by what a nice family he has and other irrelevant side stories. You don't know what size or brand of boat nor the characteristics of such a boat, you totally ignore the way the bow was sitting deep in the water prior to the dive, and you don't know enough to judge what he should have been doing with the throttle.

Basically, your filming is fine. Your analysis rivals any analysis I might provide on a plane crash, seeing as I know nothing about piloting a plane. You defend an operator but you have no knowledge of operating a boat in such conditions or of anything else going on with the boat itself.

I don't know the specifics but I feel certain there was something else in play other than just the waves. There's a reason this boat flipped and sank and it's not just Lady Luck.
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Old 11-05-2017, 10:22 AM   #99
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Boy you guys are tough on drone guy, he posted comments about a video we are all lucky enough to have seen because he was there at the time.. he gives HIS opinion ( he was there or pretty close)... and you guys grill him. If I was him I would tell you all F. U. delete my posts and make sure trawler forum never got any of my drone footage again.
Drone Guy, thanks for the video .. and your first hand observations.
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Old 11-05-2017, 10:59 AM   #100
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Boy you guys are tough on drone guy, he posted comments about a video we are all lucky enough to have seen because he was there at the time.. he gives HIS opinion ( he was there or pretty close)... and you guys grill him. If I was him I would tell you all F. U. delete my posts and make sure trawler forum never got any of my drone footage again.
Drone Guy, thanks for the video .. and your first hand observations.
HOLLYWOOD
He's the one who said CDreamer was clueless. If you like drones, he has nice videos, but he doesn't have any knowledge about operating a boat such as the one in the video. His observations are interesting but he doesn't have the knowledge to interpret what he observed and form conclusions. I could be watching him fly his drone and it crash, and because I know nothing about drones or flying them, I'd have no idea what caused it to crash. I couldn't tell if it was operator error or a malfunction of the drone or flying in conditions he shouldn't have tried. I'm sure he would be able to get to the root of the problem more than declaring it was Lady Luck. Whether his family is nice or not wouldn't shed any light on it. Drone Guy entered defensive before a single post was made by anyone here, defending himself against accusations that hadn't been made and the boat operator as well.
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