I "close" around July 8th

[Ducatihottie]

THANKS IN ADVANCE. I've been hiding as I didn't want to jinx myself before I got financed. Well here I am to bug you now and forever.

As some of you know, I'm buying a boat! My name is Brian in Auburn, WA. My boats a 1987 CHB 42' Ponderosa Tri-Cabin $77,000. Below are some estimates of costs I might have. Does this sound about right?

1. Do I need all of this, (especially the yearly costs #9).
2. Can any of you teach me how to ride my boat for less than #8 below:?
3. Did I over or underestimate any items below?
4. Xtra engine photos, maybe you can tell me more about
my Cummins 6BT5.9M 210hp main and everything around it?
5. I know I'm a handful.

Below are my estimated boat purchase & post expenses.

1. Pacific Maritime Title closing fees: Around $1,000-$1,200
2. Marine Survey: Around $850 "CALE MATHERS"
3. Mechanical Inspection: Around $700
4. Survey Haulout and potential pressure wash: $1,000
5. Sales Tax: 10.1%= $7,777.00
6. Registration fees for boat and tender= 2019 Registration $358.46 for the vessel & $25.25 for the tender
7. Yearly Geico Marine Insurance with Holly $1488
8. Captain to get signed off: $400- $500 per day(may be several hours at a time). May take a week, several weeks or longer depending on the individual
9. Post sale maintenance. 1. Moorage at Fishermen’s Terminal is $619 plus electricity 2. 1-2 boat washes per month is $200-$300 3. Annual exterior buff and wax around $2,000-$3,000 4. Annual engine service around $1,000 5. Fuel depends on the usage

Brian

 

[Comodave]

Congrats on your new boat. Have a great time with it.

 

[Spinner]

Nice boat!

Registration fees: fees decrease yearly on a schedule. The registration fee paid by the previous owner may be different because your purchase resets the clock, so to speak. Check with WA DOL.


Boat wash frequency: twice a month seems a bit excessive, IMHO! Monthly is plenty and usually cheaper than a one-time wash.

Post sale maintenance: you will need a diver at least semi-annually to check and replace your “zincs.” (They might be aluminum anodes, but don’t mix them). Local conditions in your marina might dictate shorter intervals. A local diver can advise you!
Plan to haul the boat for bottom paint every two to three years.

Boating education: you will need to get your WA state boater card. It can be done online, cost is negligible. I would suggest some basic boating classes also. Check with Power Squadron and the local Coast Guard Auxillary. You don’t want to pay a Captain $500 per day to teach you what you can learn in a very cheap class. Use the Captain’s time to get hands-on boat handling instruction.

Other things: do you plan to take your boat into Canada? Go online and start the application process for a Nexus card! It’s a real time saver when transmitting between the US and Canada. Be advised that the process can take a long time. It’s a trusted traveler program administered jointly by US and Canada. Look it up.

Get a current copy of the Waggoner Guide and Ports and Passes. The Guide is a great resource to boating between Olympia and Ketchikan. Ports and Passes covers all of the tides and currents between Olympia and Glacier Bay, as I recall.

Your Cummins is a good engine :-D

 

[ScottC]

From what I can see in the pictures, it looks really clean and well maintained! Congratulations!! Don't forget to check to see if you need to update your digital charts. These can be surprisingly expensive. Furthermore, depending on where & how you cruise, you might want to have some back-up paper charts...which can also be surprisingly expensive.

 

[ranger58sb]

4. Annual engine service around $1,000

Much of the annual service is just oil and fuel filter changes, perhaps impeller changes. Maybe $150 or less.

Suggest you get a Cummins manual for that engine, and then do yourself what it says (mostly) on the schedule it says.

If you're unsure about how, you can usually hire your first service done with proviso they tech also teach you what to do and how to do it. Extra $$ up front would be well worth it...

Don't forget to check to see if you need to update your digital charts. These can be surprisingly expensive.

Or free, depending.


-Chris

 

[DavidM]

In addition to the comments above which I agree with:

1. You will spend more on engine maintenance as you find things that the engine surveyor didn't find. It is almost inevitable on an older boat. Another forum member just went through this after purchasing a boat with twin Cummins 210s. All of the deferred maintenance probably cost him a few thousand $ during the first month.

Significant things that could add money during your first year are raw water system cleaning and repropping. The last two boats I helped deliver were both slightly over propped.

2. As noted above use a paid captain to teach you boat handling not book learning. I have done this for a few TF members over the years. We first went out and practiced docking for a few hours. Later during the delivery we practiced more docking plus anchoring. I think that the average small boat owner could learn how to dock and anchor a large trawler like yours in a day of instruction. Ask on TF and see if someone nearby would be willing to teach you.

David

 

[GH41]

If I remember correctly, when you first started your boat hunt you wanted to live part time on it. Make sure that marina allows living aboard.

 

[ranger58sb]

1. You will spend more on engine maintenance as you find things that the engine surveyor didn't find. It is almost inevitable on an older boat. Another forum member just went through this after purchasing a boat with twin Cummins 210s. All of the deferred maintenance probably cost him a few thousand $ during the first month.

Assuming we eventually find and buy a new-to-us boat, the engines will most likely be initially unfamiliar...

And in any case, I'm assuming I'll maybe hire a whole engine-baselining project, where the local dealer/certified tech/etc. does pretty much everything right up front. Normal stuff plus new impellers, coolant flush, new thermostats maybe, aftercooler and heat exchanger service, new belts and tensioners, valve adjustments, new hoses as necessary...

Also assumes I'll be having other stuff to deal with, don't want to have to at the same time argue with engines myself immediately...

-Chris

 

[Pete Meisinger]

I don't think you need to buff and wax a 30 year old boat every year, especially in Seattle where the sun won't 'eat" it alive. Just buy an automotive polisher and do it yourself once a year. Or hire a kid to do it for $200.

The lift for the survey shouldn't be over a few hundred dollars.

I really think you have budgeted too high on most items.

Your flybridge looks pretty bare. Are there electronics in the cabinet below or will you have to add some? Radio, depth finder, gps?

pete

 

[Kapn]

Surveys and the estimates they generate will be very important. Walking away from a boat after survey might be the best money you save.
Engine maintenance isn’t just an annual number. Most have larger maintenance items on a 2-5 yr basis, so some years it’s an oil change and others need valve adjustments, and salt water components serviced.
Some mechanics like working on engines and not interacting with customers and others are good at teaching. Find the kind that teach for your survey, buy the surveyors lunch, and it will be money well spent.

 

[timb]

wow i looked at your budget and i know know i can't afford one of those . it's a very nice boat

 

[ktdtx]

Nice looking boat-congrats.

That list is a good start and a way to get used to writing big checks.


As said above--$1,000 sounds like a lot for a survey haulout.
Don't know that you need it washed twice a month BUT--good maintenance is never a bad thing

 

[slowgoesit]

I don't think you need to buff and wax a 30 year old boat every year, especially in Seattle where the sun won't 'eat" it alive. Just buy an automotive polisher and do it yourself once a year. Or hire a kid to do it for $200.

The lift for the survey shouldn't be over a few hundred dollars.

I really think you have budgeted too high on most items.

Your flybridge looks pretty bare. Are there electronics in the cabinet below or will you have to add some? Radio, depth finder, gps?

pete

Is that even POSSIBLE?:lol: Better to plan for it and be pleasantly surprised IMHO!


To the OP, Good luck, and I hope things work out for you!

 

[firehoser75]

Good job Brian, and welcome to "trawler style" boating!!
Lots to learn. If you plan on paying for having everything done for you, it could get expensive. Mechanics charge $100+per hour, and other marine workers (depending on how you contract them) charge as much. These are approx. and vary by area, whether contracted through a yard, etc. Maybe you would be better served to take a coarse on engine maintenance to save a bit by doing things like oil changes, fuel filter changes, cleaning the air filter, etc. yourself, plus having a basic understanding of your engine is never a bad thing !
Like others have said, hire a Captain to teach boat handling like docking, anchoring, etc.(hands on). One person I know who does this in the Seattle area is Capt. Linda Lewis. Take a course (or more) like Power Squadron or some "certified" charter schools offer to learn about safety at sea, tides and currents, basic navigation, etc. Definitely buy some "guide books" like Wagoner and/or the various volumes by Douglass (broken into regions) and Ports and Passes for tides/currents available on line or from a local marine store. You might download (parts of) the Government book "Coast Pilot" and/or Canada's "Sailing Directions".

That engine is a great engine and it looks to be in pretty good condition (at least visually). Check out sbmar.com for TONS OF INFO on this engine! Tony runs a forum there where you can ask questions, but post good photos there to accompany any questions, and he offers Tony's Tips on what and how to do things. Great resource.
Your engine is not aftercooled and that saves a lot of maintenance, and means if looked after your engine should go 10,000 hours (or more) before requiring a rebuild (assuming previous owners looked after it).
Things to consider and/or ask the engine surveyor about:
The exhaust. It looks like the exhaust elbow is a stock Cummins double jacketed elbow that is just "raised" above the turbo. I wonder if this (especially if the elbow is old or has already failed 'inside") could lead to saltwater in the turbo. Ask to have this checked out. Take photos of the exhaust side of the turbo (with the exhaust off - inside the turbo) so we can see, or ask Tony. Be prepared that the elbow or maybe that whole "pipe and elbow" setup may need replaced/redesigned?? Ask the mechanic.
Unless the owner has complete maintenance records/receipts, I would plan on a complete service of the engine's cooling systems. That means changing the coolant, thermostat, rad cap, taking the fuel cooler, gear oil cooler and heat exchanger off the engine and sending them to the radiator shop for cleaning and most importantly pressure testing. For piece of mind and to potentially save future "big problems", I would add a raw water flow alarm (Aqualarm) and a Borel exhaust hose overheat alarm. These are not expensive, easy to install (so only a couple of hours labour), and could save you from what could be a very damaging overheat, or even from needing to do an emergency impeller change.

A weak point on this engine is the stock raw water pump. These are usually "Sherwood" pumps. If it shows any sign of leaking, replace it with a new SMX pump from sbmar.com. A much, much better pump, and easier to replace the impeller. The pump costs about $800 plus about 2 + hours labour. If you want, you can rebuild the Sherwood to keep as a "spare". If you don't replace the pump and don't know when the last impeller change was, change the impeller.
Depending on the hours (and records) on the engine, you might get the valves adjusted. Ask the mechanic.
I have some additional suggestion for "improvements' to your engine and setup, but will stop here. These are the most important things for now (assuming you complete the sale).
You did receive good advise earlier about other aspects of boats and boating. Remember, sometimes even though you spent a lot of money on 'checking out" the boat, if it is not "right" (meaning big problems are discovered), sometimes it is best to walk away from the deal. Hopefully (and most often) it doesn't happen in this case.
Good luck.

 

[Ducatihottie]

All great info. I cut and pasted questions for my boat mechanic and surveyor.

If a few of these items need addressed. How much should I expect the owner to pay for? Or are they "usually" all my charges?

Does the costs I'm paying for the engine survey include any maintenance if they see something that they can fix?

 

[JohnEasley]

Great looking boat! Congratulations.

 

[Ducatihottie]

If problems, how much should I expect the owner to pay or deduct from cost of the boat.

Or am I just throwing the price of a cheap skiing boat with my engine!, surveyor, and pull out.


Does the engine inspector

1. break down the costs of repairs needed
2. Do they gather receipts and routine maintenance that was done?

If they find engine problems, would I require the owner to do them or take cash off the deal.

 

[DavidM]

Generally a survey mechanic will not do even simple repairs, except maybe reconnecting a loose wire or something trivial. You hired him for a survey so keep it to a survey.

Afterwards if you have issues, like an overheating engine, then negotiate either a price reduction or a fix by the owner- but only if the fix can be verified as fixed.

For example, several boats ago, the engine overheated at wot during the seatrial. The cause could not easily be determined without some step by step diagnosis and the fix could have been as simple as a barnacle fouled thruhull or a badly corroded and fouled heat exchanger. So seller and I agreed that I would accept the boat but the overheating must be fixed at his expense. The seller subsequently spent a few thousand $ on stupid parts replacements until he finally found that a collapsed $20 hose was causing the overheating.

I sent my surveyor back twice, once when the seller and his mechanic thought they had found the problem- a fouled water injection elbow but had not sea trialed it. The surveyor did and it still overheated. The last time it did not overheat after the seller replaced the main heat exchanger and finally the collapsed hose.

So in that case it paid to make it the seller's responsibility to fix the problem. But usually a selling price reduction is better way to go. You get the money and you fix it the way you want to.

But at the end of the day it is whatever can be agreed between the parties

David

 

[GH41]

The engine survey will be as detailed as you are willing to pay for but I doubt the owner will let him take it apart. Most of what the others are saying is plan to renew everything considered consumable up front if the owner cannot document with receipts it has been done, when and by who. Nothing on a boat last more than 10-15 years and that boat didn't get 33 years old without being worked on. I'll use the elbow/riser mentioned a couple of times already.... If it fails the engine comes out! I commend you for admitting you cannot/will not do the even basic maintenance. Most of the guys suggesting you learn don't have anything to. In your case, working in the medical field, your overtime rate is likely more than what a boat mechanic charges. I used to have a client that payed me $50 to change a light bulb. His time was too valuable to learn to do it himself.