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Old 06-14-2018, 04:49 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
That's an interesting comment. We have an inverter and can power the TV with it... but then I'm usually on the bridge driving... with the TV in the saloon off.

It'd be easy for us to be moving out of range of a broadcast station, and of course that would mean the signal would disappear... but within range, I'd have thought the OTA signal would be fine...

-Chris
https://blog.solidsignal.com/tutoria...tv-moving-car/

In my boat going 6 to 8 knots, the signal was dropping out and choppy.
It is just the way ATSC OTA TV works. May I ask how anyone gets a signal to work in a moving vehicle, cause when I had the problem, I looked it up and found it does not work, which is my experience.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:11 PM   #22
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Shakespear round for $75 or RCA at Walmart $29....amplified antenna...

Get solid signals from major cities when 30 or less miles from the antenna ( not necessarily near city). Maybe 50% of the signals do drop in and out, but some are rock solid for many miles. Terrain and obstructions can be an issue.

Works bettter than I thought it would on our annual trip.

Obviously large areas are either devpid or thin on signals, but again suprising there os TV as much as tthete is along most of the ACIW.
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Old 06-15-2018, 05:59 AM   #23
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In my boat going 6 to 8 knots, the signal was dropping out and choppy.
It is just the way ATSC OTA TV works. May I ask how anyone gets a signal to work in a moving vehicle, cause when I had the problem, I looked it up and found it does not work, which is my experience.
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Shakespear round for $75 or RCA at Walmart $29....amplified antenna...

Yep. Our antenna is Glomex, but usually that's all it takes... if you're in range at all.

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Old 06-15-2018, 09:07 AM   #24
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Yep. Our antenna is Glomex, but usually that's all it takes... if you're in range at all.

-Chris
https://www.atsc.org/newsletter/celebrating-mobile-dtv/
Maybe you are watching a mobile ATSC A/153 Tv station, supposedly 130 are now broadcasting a mobile version of ATSC. Because regular ATSC broadcasts otherwise fails to be watchable in a moving vehicle, that is a proven fact. I am not going to argue with what is a well known limitation of ATSC, something ATSC version 3.0 fixes, but that is not around at all anywhere. Maybe your not giving me all the details of why you can watch mobile ATSC broadcast or maybe you don't even know, sorry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC-M/H
" The ATSC transmission method is not robust enough against doppler shift and multipath radio interference in mobile environments, and is designed for highly directional fixed antennas. To overcome these issues, additional channel coding mechanisms are introduced in ATSC-M/H to protect the signal."

Exactly MY experience and a proven problem with ATSC. But not going to belabor this known proven limitation with any further posts, it works for you but mostly it does not work for almost everyone which is why they are working on a mobile version that does work.
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Old 06-15-2018, 10:19 AM   #25
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Works for every boater I know.

You are correct that I have no clue and no intetest in the tech details.

We plug in an antenna, turn on the TV, scan for channels and watch.

Getting local weather and news in many places is nice while underway.

It wouldnt be the end of the world if it didnt work as long as it works at anchor and at a dock.

It is annoying that sometimes it does work better underway as we are in open water where docks and anchorages might have too many obstacles.
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:39 PM   #26
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Motors are usually pretty happy on square wave. Universal motors are happy on no wave at all. Microwaves can be pretty unhappy on square wave, putting out about half the power and heating the power supply and magnetron with the difference. Also anything with a switching power supply (like most modern electronics) can be pretty unhappy - it will work, but the power supply will heat significantly more, while producing significantly less power.


+1
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:32 PM   #27
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If you guys want, we can split the TV discussion to its own thread.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:57 PM   #28
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Why shouldn't I purchase a 2500 watt puresine inverter from Home Depot for $549 with 3 year warranty?? My Westerbeke 7.7 kw genset died and I can't afford a replacement. I have a 2200 watt puresine Honda knockoff that works great but isn't enough for my ac fridge. Just looking to power the fridge and maybe an ice maker.. I have a bank of 6 trojan t105s and 390 watts of solar panels.. Living on the mooring ball in Boot Key Harbor.. Gradually restoring my Formosa 42 trawler after a few years of neglect and Hurricane Irma damage.. Not to mention the damage my recent rat caused.. Ate through lots of stuff. Replacing the entire freshwater plumbing at the moment sans tanks which he didn't get to.... Thanks for your thoughts!
What kind of fridge requires that kind of wattage?
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:48 PM   #29
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If you guys want, we can split the TV discussion to its own thread.
Just killing time till he comments or answers.......
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:09 PM   #30
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Psneeld, we are still talking about inverters, types and size and things that might use the inverter. And yes, a little side venture on antenna, to support the TV.

I don't think we have every stayed on subject.... but we always seem to come back to the original subject.
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Old 06-16-2018, 06:31 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
https://www.atsc.org/newsletter/celebrating-mobile-dtv/
Maybe you are watching a mobile ATSC A/153 Tv station, supposedly 130 are now broadcasting a mobile version of ATSC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC-M/H
" The ATSC transmission method is not robust enough against doppler shift and multipath radio interference in mobile environments, and is designed for highly directional fixed antennas.

Not that I know of; just every station within reach at any given area...

Our antenna is NOT uni-directional. It's omni-directional...

Not arguing; just describing our experience...

-Chris


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Old 06-18-2018, 01:15 PM   #32
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Marine air conditioning

you already got a Westerbeke 7.6KW with Problems, a portable Ohio Force inverter generator, 2200W generator, a 2500W economical inverter, expensive batteries, Solar panels..
I see that several friends now use the same power arrangement but they added a small Mini Marine self contained 4200 BTU 3.0 amp unit for their room, they get heat and cool, they are able to run their Vitrifrigo AC/DC refrigerator, small Ice Maker, and recharge the batteries. I was impressed to see that small unit was keeping a 48 Sail boat comfortable and running 8 hours on few batteries.
The advantage of a good inverter is the fact that they have an automatic transfer switch, battery low voltage protection, and most important an excellent battery 3 stage charger with Battery monitoring.
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Old 06-18-2018, 06:37 PM   #33
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It ain't all about sine wave

Ok so Home Depot has a good price on a pure sine wave there a bunch on the market these days a lot cheaper than a marine one,,,,,,,,however not to get tooooo technical but cheaper ones basically have a floating neutral if you plug one of the out let testers in that tell you if your misssing a ground it most likely will illuminate all three lights if your handy with a multi meter check voltage from hot to ground and neutral to ground than scratch your head.with out a unit that derives its own neutral you may find you get a tingle grabbing the railing on a wet deck, this can be cleaned up with an isolation transformer but the cost is well DOH! So use with cation I turn mine off when we go swimming, in salt water it's not as much an issue with fresh water, but how can one not love these my 1000 watt runs a small freezer and a small fridge while on the hook for a weekend.
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Old 06-19-2018, 03:11 AM   #34
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Inverters

Sine wave inverters are the best if you can afford them. They will not run some DVD players, microwaves, and some appliances will create a large hum with a square wave inverter. Starting motors of any sort with any inverter need the inverter to be sometimes 10 times the capacity depending on the starting current of the device.
An even bigger issue is that the inverter will really decimate the battery if you are taking 200 amps out of it for a 2KW load. So a big issue is how can you recharge the battery and protect it from large discharges! You will certainly need a smart charger of some sort, leisure style batteries at the very least, and if you are using wet cell batteries you will need to get in a lot of distilled water and monitor them carefully.
Boating always seems to involve many compromises, and there is never just one solution.
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:17 AM   #35
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"Not to mention the damage my recent rat caused.. Ate through lots of stuff. Replacing the entire freshwater plumbing at the moment sans tanks which he didn't get to."


I hope you installed flaired copper tubing , rather than rubber or plastic rat food.
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:47 AM   #36
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Ok so Home Depot has a good price on a pure sine wave there a bunch on the market these days a lot cheaper than a marine one,,,,,,,,however not to get tooooo technical but cheaper ones basically have a floating neutral if you plug one of the out let testers in that tell you if your misssing a ground it most likely will illuminate all three lights if your handy with a multi meter check voltage from hot to ground and neutral to ground than scratch your head.with out a unit that derives its own neutral you may find you get a tingle grabbing the railing on a wet deck, this can be cleaned up with an isolation transformer but the cost is well DOH! So use with cation I turn mine off when we go swimming, in salt water it's not as much an issue with fresh water, but how can one not love these my 1000 watt runs a small freezer and a small fridge while on the hook for a weekend.
I have a 3000 watt MSW wired into the boat system. I installed a 20 amp GFCI outlet and distribute power to the entire boat through that outlet. The GFCI works, brand is Leviton with no buzzing. Other good one is Hubbell.
Those 2 manufacturers are the only ones that work well with an MSW. I tried couple other makers and they made weird sounds running off MSW inverter.

So if you were going to get a tingle, well it can not, since that 5 ma current flow would trigger the GFCI to turn the power off. I get no nuisance tripping. The MSW inverter has an ungrounded neutral, so you should not get any tingle anyway unless your electric wires are miswired. Even in a standard grounded neutral ( at the electrical source) sine wave power system, all power flows through the neutral as well as the hot, power is flowing through the neutral similar to how it works in an MSW inverter. It has to return to its source. If you were to break open the neutral and use your body to complete the circuit, you would be electrocuted with sine wave power.

! use several 4 pole double throw 35 amp relays to switch power automatically from shore - gen- inverter, and on demand from the helm I have switches to turn relays on and off too.
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Old 06-19-2018, 08:04 AM   #37
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I know that adding "marine" to a product description makes it more expensive, but in the case of inverters, isn't there a real difference? Something about how the ground (s) and meutral (s) are tied together, because of sometimes being connected to shore power?
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Old 06-19-2018, 09:06 AM   #38
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Sine wave inverters are the best if you can afford them. They will not run some DVD players, microwaves, and some appliances will create a large hum with a square wave inverter. Starting motors of any sort with any inverter need the inverter to be sometimes 10 times the capacity depending on the starting current of the device.
An even bigger issue is that the inverter will really decimate the battery if you are taking 200 amps out of it for a 2KW load. So a big issue is how can you recharge the battery and protect it from large discharges! You will certainly need a smart charger of some sort, leisure style batteries at the very least, and if you are using wet cell batteries you will need to get in a lot of distilled water and monitor them carefully.
Boating always seems to involve many compromises, and there is never just one solution.

Mikeó I was with you up to the distilled water. A good charging system should keep the water dissipation to a minimum. I have flooded cell batteries in my boat, my car and my van. Rarely do any require water. My boat has 8 golfcarts to create 2 each 12v banks.

I am really impressed with the way my Victron 70-150 controller charges the boatís batteries. Important to keep the float voltage to what is recommended by the manufacturer to retain the water.
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Old 06-19-2018, 12:34 PM   #39
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"A good charging system should keep the water dissipation to a minimum"


The depth of discharge , the frequency of discharge vs the frequenct & rare of charge is what determines water consumption.
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Old 06-26-2018, 08:34 PM   #40
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Okay, one simple question for the inverter experts,,, I need one for the computer, some 110 LED lights and a coffee pot. So what size and type can I get by with? I have duel 27 series AGM batteries to run this expected purchase. TIA
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