Grounding Video

[FWT]

Sad tale.

Mooring ball for a lunch stop. Ball gave way.

Possible total loss.

 

[motion30]

That is heartbreaking. Looks like it is reparable but take a bit.
It may be me but I am much more comfortable on my own gear that I am familiar with and are able to inspect regularly. I have seen too many cases where the boat floats away the mooring ball still attached

 

[psneeld]

That is heartbreaking. Looks like it is reparable but take a bit.
It may be me but I am much more comfortable on my own gear that I am familiar with and are able to inspect regularly. I have seen too many cases where the boat floats away the mooring ball still attached

True...one thing to trust town/marina mooring balls that have a great reputation for being inspected....another to trust a restaurant's mooring balls on a lee shore that has surf and rocks.

I thought the video was going well till he tried to compare a "live hollywood director" not being able to fail and what happened with the boat. If he truly believed what he said about his "can't fail" role....I would refer him to my above paragraph. The old adage of "well others just like me do it all the time" and that satisfies his "not able to make a mistake rule"...that's when I stopped watching.

 

[Serene]

[SNIP]

I thought the video was going well till he tried to compare a "live hollywood director" not being able to fail and what happened with the boat. If he truly believed what he said about his "can't fail" role....I would refer him to my above paragraph. The old adage of "well others just like me do it all the time" and that satisfies his "not able to make a mistake rule"...that's when I stopped watching.

If you watch a few of his videos you will see a pattern.

Buy your first boat brand new for circa. USD$2.75m, have no experience and rely on paying people to do everything. Marina hop from bar to bar and put it on Youtube. Allow the generator to overheat multiple times due to blockages in the raw water intake. There is more, but I can't be bothered typing!

He has also blown a transmission on one of his Volvo diesels, ripped off the skeg under one of the hulls, dropped the keys to start his dinghy overboard, etc.

It is literally an example of somebody who has more money than brains!

I personally detest the flying of a Texas Rangers flag instead of the US flag when the vessel is US registered and operating in a foreign country.

 

[Blissboat]

Having anchored in Trunk Bay several times, this is a sad story but honestly, the skipper has to own it, and no sniveling. He could have put his own hook on the bottom. As far as I can tell from the NPS website, unrestricted anchoring areas are within easy reach of the beach by dinghy. Taking an unknown mooring on a lee shore with a swell running, and then leaving the boat unattended? In my book, that's just flat-out begging for trouble.

https://www.nps.gov/viis/planyourvisit/virgin-islands-marine-visitor-use-information.htm

Sorry for what happened to a nice power cat, but no one got hurt and the loss is insured. If this gentleman intends to continue captaining, he'll learn from his painful, expensive experience and move on.

 

[hollywood8118]

That boat deserves a better owner. He obviously is insured so fix the boat and move on. The BVI moorings are always iffy, he chose poorly and is paying the price. Honestly I skipped through most of the drama to get to the meat of the story.. some of it made little sense, swimming to the beach, the boat catching up unnoticed, not immediately setting a kedge (or two). Obviously the prop(s) contacted the rocks while spinning. The boat is repairable but it will take a bit and cost.
You tubers like this guy thrive on this kind of drama. Non boaters and wannabes love this king of crap.
Hollywood

 

[Delta Riverat]

Yeah.

I saw him as a pumped up blowhole.

 

[Benthic2]

How long before his GoFundMe page is up and running?

 

[STB]

I'm certainly no expert, and never been in this situation, and don't have a boat that expensive or complex, and don't really know the details of the sea conditions that the vessel was experiencing.

But, I have left boats unattended at municipal mooring fields, at anchor, and at restaurant docks.

I don't think I'd grab an unknown ball -- I'd rather be on a known anchor.

But, I don't think I'd think twice about leaving my boat unattended for a small few hours on a major restaurant's ball under reasonable sea conditions, after verifying with them that the ball was available to me and suitable for my use.

Seems to me like he may have made a bad call in trusting whatever random person answered the phone. But, it also seems to me that the restaurant failed in their duty to maintain it or, at the least, to properly describe its suitability for use.

...all, according to what he said, which may or may not be the only story.

But, based upon what he's said, I am a lot less critical of him than most here, I think. Other decisions would have avoided the event, but that can be said about almost any adverse event. 20-20 hindsight.

 

[Serene]

[SNIP]

But, based upon what he's said, I am a lot less critical of him than most here, I think. Other decisions would have avoided the event, but that can be said about almost any adverse event. 20-20 hindsight.

Lee shore. That's all that needs to be said.

When I was a young Midshipman, I was put in command of a 24' sailing vessel at the Naval College, while a Lieutenant was in charge of a larger vessel. I was given instructions to follow him on the cruise, but on the last day he tried to anchor on a lee shore. I decided I was not going to follow, so sailed back to the port.

When I had finished berthing, the Commander came down to the wharf and asked who was in charge of the vessel and when I identified myself he asked in a stern tone why I had not followed the Lieutenant's orders and anchored near the other vessel.

I said sir, "that is a lee shore and I would never anchor on a lee shore". He responded with, "good decision Midshipman".

As it turned out the Lieutenant had issues getting his anchor to hold and started dragging onto the beach. The Commander had to mobilise a number of power vessels and dispatch them to tow the Lieutenant back into deeper water.

I have never forgotten that lesson.

 

[STB]

I get that for a sailing vessel. If there is a problem, options can be much more limited -- dramatically so withbthebwind toward shore and close in.

And, I'd get that on anchor. If one knows the bottom, has the right gear, has the right experience, and has good anchoring skill, the risk can be dramatically reduced. But anchors always have some measurable risk. I wouldn't want to be gone and unable to pull anchor and go or reposition.

But I think of a mooring ball owned by a major restaurant as an engineered and maintained device. It didn't show up at that location yesterday. And, unless those winds and seas were uncommon in direction or force, I'd have expected the mooring ball to have been suitable for the use. Or for the restaurant to have told me, "it is only suitable for vessels under 50' in LOD, 16' in beam, 3 foot in draft, and 45,000lbs dry, and in winds less than 20kn", or whatever.

I'd feel differently if one didn't check, one didn't get an unconditional affirmative answer, or the maintainer wasn't a professional marine business.

Indeed, the captain is responsible for the vessel. But, I guess I wonder -- why wasn't the ball engineered and maintained for that purpose or the captain properly advised upon asking -- if either turns out to be the case.

 

[Serene]

IMHO the Captain is ultimately responsible for his vessel and all souls on board and cannot transfer his/her risk to another party. Full stop.

Mooring balls are known to be notoriously in all different states of repair.

1. Mooring ball of unknown quality/suitability
2. Lee shore
3. Vessel left unattended
4. Swimming to shore
5. An activity that was not critical


Even if the vessel was not grounded, how risky is it for middle aged men to swim back against the weather after spending time drinking/eating in a restaurant?

The whole scenario reeks of inexperience and a lack of judgement!

 

[STB]

1. Mooring ball of unknown quality/suitability
2. Lee shore
3. Vessel left unattended
4. Swimming to shore
5. An activity that was not critical

Okay. But 3, 4, and 5 are commonly accepted risks, at least under some circumstances, right? There are all sorts of vessels anchored outside of sandbars around Florida from which folks have gone swimming around and to the sandbar. Happens by the dozens. And many unattended boats in anchorages.

Even if the vessel was not grounded, how risky is it for middle aged men to swim back against the weather after spending time drinking/eating in a restaurant?

Depends upon the men, the water, and how much drinking and eating, right? Reasonably fit men after a modest meal and with minimal alcohol in their system might be fine. Unconditional, sedentary, folks with limiting health conditions who over ate and are plastered. Well, not so much. In this case at least some of them did seem to swim out there okay.

It seems like the big question here, ubder the hypothetical fact picture we are discussing, is whether the restaurant should have been trustable w.r.t. the risks attendant with a leeward shore and the type of vessel in question.

I don't want to disagree that there are risks for anchoring or mooring with a leeward shore and that these risks are amplified by the character of the vessel and the unattended nature of the vessel.

But, there are sizeable attendant risks to defying gravity by 30,000 feet, yet I do that all the time without a thought, as most do, because I trust the engineering, manufacturing, and the operators (insert Boeing and 737 Max comments here).

I guess I just wonder was this an unlikely bad ball, or is the failure of a commerical mooring ball commonly understood to be a higher risk than I've estimated.

 

[Serene]

[SNIP]

Depends upon the men, the water, and how much drinking and eating, right? Reasonably fit men after a modest meal and with minimal alcohol in their system might be fine. Unconditional, sedentary, folks with limiting health conditions who over ate and are plastered. Well, not so much. In this case at least some of them did seem to swim out there okay.

If you watch some of the other videos you will see the level of drinking and some health/fitness issues. The swim to shore was ok, but I am talking about the swim back into the weather and after the drinking/eating.

It seems like the big question here, ubder the hypothetical fact picture we are discussing, is whether the restaurant should have been trustable w.r.t. the risks attendant with a leeward shore and the type of vessel in question.

I think this is the crux of the matter. i.e. it is not the restaurant's responsibility to determine operating parameters for a seagoing vessel. That is the Captain's responsibility. Even when you listen to his commentary, there is an inference that the restaurant has some level of responsibility. I strongly disagree with this. Modern society is always looking to blame somebody else. Being the Captain of a vessel is somewhat the last bastion of self-responsibility, which I don't think this guy has come to terms with!

I don't want to disagree that there are risks for anchoring or mooring with a leeward shore and that these risks are amplified by the character of the vessel and the unattended nature of the vessel.

But, there are sizeable attendant risks to defying gravity by 30,000 feet, yet I do that all the time without a thought, as most do, because I trust the engineering, manufacturing, and the operators (insert Boeing and 737 Max comments here).

I guess I just wonder was this an unlikely bad ball, or is the failure of a commerical mooring ball commonly understood to be a higher risk than I've estimated.

A heavily regulated industry such as commercial aviation is not an apples to apples comparison. In my experience mooring balls are all 'use at your own risk'. At least with your own ground tackle you know the condition and suitability for your own vessel.

Anyway it is obviously not a great outcome and of course we all have 20:20 hindsight, but in my opinion the lee shore should have precluded that location for leaving the vessel unattended, no matter any of the other circumstances.

 

[Pascall]

How long before his GoFundMe page is up and running?

That was also my first thought, pathetic figure, better play in a theatre group.

Mvg,

Pascal.

 

[psneeld]

I guess the million dollar question for me here is..... who is responsible for the mooring balls and how are they advertised?

As I first posted, unless the responsible party has a published maintenance schedule and ball rating...AND a good, long term safety rating (like the airlines)...theen I consider leaving a boat unattended at a ball without that info available risky (especially in that particular situation).

While I often accuse TF threads of prematurely judging accidents...the basics here without that first question answered would be the same.

Another key factor in a persons experience bag is I have never come across anyone that works in a restaurant that answers the phone or is "the manager" that has a clue about the docks/mooring balls/water depth, etc.....they have knowledge of the "policy" concerning using them but not anything else. Sometimes they are not even clear on just the policies. Soa call for me would be about policy only, not suitability.

I also would not trust the "similar boats use it all the time" yardstick as we all know that doesn't equate to "proper use" or expected durability.

So there is a bit of hindsight making criticisms more easily here, but these are pretty common knowledge items amongst seasoned well informed cruisers.

Lots of people thing that responsible people can learn everything they need to get a big boat and go about cruising in relatively short order....I am just glad I did it old school and climbed the ladder over a lifetime of serious boating. There may be a substitute, but others keep proving the newer way to not be great for everyone.

 

[Mac G]

We rent moorings all the time. But only from marinas and towns who are in the business of providing those and hence properly maintain them. When making the reservation I always ask - when was it last serviced, how often do you check them, etc.
And then I make sure they know my dwt and aware of my size and draft so they can point me to a proper ball.
Those are always typically in protected harbors too, not lee shores.

 

[Mac G]

have also dropped a mooring and requested another or put my own pennant on if it seemed sketchy

 

[Xlantic]

I have also left my boat unattended in a restaurant mooring ball for lunch but certainly would not do it with these swells on a lee shore.

They swam ashore because the swells were too large to use the dinghy

(Screen shot from video during salvage operation which, I believe, was the same day.)

 

[psneeld]

I have also left my boat unattended in a restaurant mooring ball for lunch but certainly would not do it with these swells on a lee shore.

They swam ashore because the swells were too large to use the dinghy

(Screen shot from video during salvage operation which, I believe, was the same day.)

Have been there for a few anchoring situations.... but only saw it from a helicopter or the seaward end of a towing hawser.

 

[GoneFarrell]

This whole deal says "non-renewal" insurance-wise.

 

[hollywood8118]

A cascading effect of bad decisions.
Seems from his comments the actual owner of the restaurant may not be the owner of the mooring.
With few exceptions none of the BVI moorings I have been on were probably "rated" by anyone more qualified than the local guy who set it.. and that could have been years before and with no maintenance since.
I place my trust in My gear that I set.
HW

 

[STB]

I have also left my boat unattended in a restaurant mooring ball for lunch but certainly would not do it with these swells on a lee shore.

They swam ashore because the swells were too large to use the dinghy

(Screen shot from video during salvage operation which, I believe, was the same day.)

Yeah. I saw that, too. And that did have my attention. I wasn't sure if that was what it was like at the balls, or just where it was breaking nearer the rocks.

If it was doing that by the balls, I wouldn't have taken one or anchored there.

But there was another scene, in between the beaching and the salvage in time, where the other large cat eas at the ball, and seemed reasonably steady.

It was thst scene that made.me think conditions super shallow by the sore and a bit farther out at the ball were different.

As for the dinghy...it and a large boat can operate in different conditions, obviously. And I can swim in conditions I wouldn't take a dinghy into. A dinghy broaches way more easily than me.

 

[psneeld]

All shores become super shallow at some point...but that's not THE point.

To have big breakers anyplace, you have to have big swells. They just don't look big in deep water but they are still powerful and will drive things ashore unless there is a strong breeze coming from the shore which will blow a boat away from shore but would stack up the swells too.

So the real question isn't all the drivel of how big the surf/swells, or should you swim in or dinghy in...it's whether the conditions (combination of wind, swells, current) plus a mooring or anchor issue that will drive the boat ashore or seaward and how fast. That allows one to determine whether an unattended boat is prudent seamanship or not.

 

[Hippocampus]

Some general observations.
Not infrequently anchoring is not allowed inside a mooring field. It also carries the risk of entanglement of your chain with the existing moorings as you shift with wind and currents.

Not infrequently you cannot achieve a safe scope anchoring inside a mooring field. It’s there to be able to put more boats in a confined space. Anchored you may hit other boats.

So not infrequently you’re stuck using what’s there. Personally prefer screws to blocks and chain to line. But you’re stuck with what’s there. So I check integrity to the degree possible. I’m not adverse to picking up the ball and looking at the chain.nor even diving it after mooring. I’m not adverse to ignoring their pedant(s) and rigging my own. I’m not adverse to backing down on the mooring after using my snubbers for attachment. Doing the same protocol I would if anchored and going to loads I would expect for predicted weather and conditions. You don’t leave a moored or anchored boat until you’re absolutely sure it safe to do so.

Although I don’t run a dry boat the boat is dry whenever we are moving and whenever we get into the water. Don’t want to live with that don’t get on my boat.

It’s common for there to be a significant onshore swell in the Caribbean. You quickly learn to have decent ground tackle on your dinghy. You come into shore (or dinghy dock) and drop an anchor and swim in from there. You pay it out as suitable to conditions and situation. Against a dock you may use shorter scope and be on the lee side but enough off the dock as to not destroy the dinghy. With a shore first person in takes floating line and brings it in to the beach. Then stakes it into the sand. That gives you a line to help you get back to the dinghy. You don’t swim in unless you know everyone can swim out. Period.

Sometimes it just isn’t made to be. Going to that dinghy dock or beach just isn’t safe. You just suck it up and live for another day.

This guy violated every principle of a safe skipper. He placed his boat at risk. He placed his crew at risk. He accepted an unsafe mooring. He didn’t check things for himself and just accepted assumptions. PS is correct. He wasn’t a prudent skipper.

 

[STB]

All shores become super shallow at some point...but that's not THE point.

To have big breakers anyplace, you have to have big swells. They just don't look big in deep water but they are still powerful and will drive things ashore unless there is a strong breeze coming from the shore which will blow a boat away from shore but would stack up the swells too.

So the real question isn't all the drivel of how big the surf/swells, or should you swim in or dinghy in...it's whether the conditions (combination of wind, swells, current) plus a mooring or anchor issue that will drive the boat ashore or seaward and how fast. That allows one to determine whether an unattended boat is prudent seamanship or not.

No doubt.

 

[Bradenvlp]

In our area the parks departments in WA and BC do a great job deploying and maintaining moorings but they typically post a maximum length of 40ish feet, no rafting of boats over x etc. The only place I have seen moorings designed for a boat my size is in Princess Louisa because of the difficult anchorage and they are Stout and posted clearly.

Don’t know that area but to me “restaurant mooring” is somewhere I tie up a 20’ day trip boat for a few hours.

 

[Mac2]

I thought it interesting the hollywood director didn’t film the most important detail-the point of failure. He filmed the mooring ball on the beach, which he stated was still attached, but didn’t film where the failure point was (or I missed it). That seems telling to me. With to short a scope, he could have been yanking the mooring ball clear out of the water in those large swells.

 

[STB]

I thought it interesting the hollywood director didn’t film the most important detail-the point of failure. He filmed the mooring ball on the beach, which he stated was still attached, but didn’t film where the failure point was (or I missed it). That seems telling to me. With to short a scope, he could have been yanking the mooring ball clear out of the water in those large swells.

True that.

 

[Serene]

I thought it interesting the hollywood director didn’t film the most important detail-the point of failure. He filmed the mooring ball on the beach, which he stated was still attached, but didn’t film where the failure point was (or I missed it). That seems telling to me. With to short a scope, he could have been yanking the mooring ball clear out of the water in those large swells.

Apparently, all of the footage got 'washed out to sea'!