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Old 08-05-2018, 01:40 AM   #21
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.. Now they're not going to let us wash the bird poop off the deck!
Bird poop should be carefully collected, aged, and used to fertilize the organic vegetables and herbs we should all be growing onboard. (Actually, I know people who grow herbs onboard,but if they use bird poop as fertilizer, it`s processed chicken stuff.
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:40 AM   #22
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When I brought Libra home from Europe she had only one 250 gallon holding tank with mixture of black and grey water.

USCG regs make it illegal in the US to combine black and gray water in the same tank. A reg that's often ignored, however.

--Peggie
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:42 AM   #23
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Peggie!!!! Now they're not going to let us wash the bird poop off the deck!

There's always a good heavy rain. At least till they figure out how to ban using it wash boats.


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Old 08-05-2018, 09:07 AM   #24
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This ‘no grey water discharge ‘ must be and must have been the case in Europe for some time. When I brought Libra home from Europe she had only one 250 gallon holding tank with mixture of black and grey water. No way to discharge grey water anywhere except thru the pump out.
Klee Wyck was built over there a couple of years before Libra and has sumps that discharge showers and sinks directly overboard with no holding.

You learn to pay attention and get used to it.
Why the E.U. is well loved worldwide.
They decided to add Grey water, but don't make anyone retrofit black water tanks.

In 4500 nm of cruising in Europe, I saw one pump out.

When governments make unreasonable regulations, then more people ignore them.

Some of you may remember Nixon's 55 mph speed limit. I was living in Denver at the time. Speed limit on the interstate thru the city was 55, and 70 outside.
Before the 55, traffic would noticeably slow up going thru Denver. After 55 was imposed for the entire state and country, no one slowed anymore and just cruised thru at 70, which is the speed they'd been doing outside city limits.
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Old 08-05-2018, 11:03 AM   #25
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Plumb the gray and black water into the raw water pickup, and blast it out the exhaust back of the boat.

I had the boat at a proudly green marina couple of years. They also had installed a collector for when you haul to hold the runoff from power washing the hull. And upcharged their fees to you because it was 'good for the environment'. I wonder what they did with all of that stuff, probably went to a landfill. They also did not like you washing your boat in the slip. Maybe the soap is toxic they thought. And absolutely no filling the boat from a fuel can in your slip, claimed you would spill it in the water.
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Old 08-05-2018, 11:08 AM   #26
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They also said they don't have a way of pumping out grey water even if you have a holding tank for it.

Irritating when our "Leaders" impose rules and regulations and then don't any way to comply with them.provide
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:09 PM   #27
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Plumb the gray and black water into the raw water pickup, and blast it out the exhaust back of the boat.

A good way to destroy an exhaust system, if not an engine! But it's not exactly a new idea.


There have been at least two attempts to market a system to use engine exhaust to incinerate toilet waste. The first was in the RV market in late '70s. It didn't last long 'cuz not only did the animal fats in sewage and the grease and oils in gray water destroy catalytic converters and clog up exhaust pipes, the exhaust STANK...making life miserable for vehicles who had to follow an RV up a hill.

There were two attempts in the marine market..the first was in the late '80s. A couple of Spaniards who quickly discovered (but not until after they'd spent buckets of money producing the systems and advertising em) that it only works in dry exhausts--but clogged 'em up and had the same odor issues RVs had....and besides, in the recreational boat market, at least 90% of boats have wet exhausts, which don't get hot enough to incinerate the waste. So it didn't last long.

A second system was tried in the '90s...even won some kind of "innovation" award. I bookmarked their site, but it seems to have disappeared...and a google search didn't turn up it or anything else either.

So I'm pretty sure that disposing of black and gray water via engine exhaust is an idea whose time hasn't come yet and prob'ly never will. But that won't stop someone else from trying it.

--Peggie
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:22 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by HeadMistress View Post
When I brought Libra home from Europe she had only one 250 gallon holding tank with mixture of black and grey water.

USCG regs make it illegal in the US to combine black and gray water in the same tank. A reg that's often ignored, however.

--Peggie


I didnít know that. And here I was thinking that if this grey water ban continues I may need to plumb the sinks and showers into the holding tank... Oh well.
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Old 08-05-2018, 01:53 PM   #29
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Head Mistress

Just downloaded Peggy's book on Kindle. Tons of info. Excellent read
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:11 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by HeadMistress View Post
Plumb the gray and black water into the raw water pickup, and blast it out the exhaust back of the boat.

A good way to destroy an exhaust system, if not an engine! But it's not exactly a new idea.


There have been at least two attempts to market a system to use engine exhaust to incinerate toilet waste. The first was in the RV market in late '70s. It didn't last long 'cuz not only did the animal fats in sewage and the grease and oils in gray water destroy catalytic converters and clog up exhaust pipes, the exhaust STANK...making life miserable for vehicles who had to follow an RV up a hill.

There were two attempts in the marine market..the first was in the late '80s. A couple of Spaniards who quickly discovered (but not until after they'd spent buckets of money producing the systems and advertising em) that it only works in dry exhausts--but clogged 'em up and had the same odor issues RVs had....and besides, in the recreational boat market, at least 90% of boats have wet exhausts, which don't get hot enough to incinerate the waste. So it didn't last long.

A second system was tried in the '90s...even won some kind of "innovation" award. I bookmarked their site, but it seems to have disappeared...and a google search didn't turn up it or anything else either.

So I'm pretty sure that disposing of black and gray water via engine exhaust is an idea whose time hasn't come yet and prob'ly never will. But that won't stop someone else from trying it.

--Peggie
I was not exactly serious.

You could simply slowly inject it into the exhaust downstream of the engine using a small pump as the engine runs to get rid of grey water. Glad I boat in an area where I can pump directly overboard using my Lectrasan, which still works fine, old as it is. I have rebuilt it once since owning the boat. Collecting gray water is as dumb as it gets.

Those promoting all these things do not want you on the water with a hydrocarbon engine either. Such an engine does pollute the water with noxious engine exhaust and they want to stop all of it at really any cost. The furor over copper bottom paint is another example of extremism on their part. They have already ruined the durable oil paints market. And water paints don't flow out very well anymore cause they ruined it by mandating a tiny VOC content. They are about to do away with R134a refrigerant in favor of a new hugely expensive refrigerant R1234yf that if it gets hot can kill people in the car..
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:05 PM   #31
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I hoped you weren't, and also didn't think you knew that it's actually been brought to market at least twice. And I wouldn't bet against somebody trying it again. Just glad to know it won't be you!
They are about to do away with R134a refrigerant in favor of a new hugely expensive refrigerant R1234yf that if it gets hot can kill people in the car..
And I don't know where it's ever gonna end. Not likely to in my lifetime....

--Peggie
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Old 08-05-2018, 06:40 PM   #32
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We just need Mr. Fusion (like in Back to the Future). Your waste goes into the reactor and powers the 10 Gigawatt power plant for a year.

I often wonder how they enforce these regulations on the birds and fish in the marina.
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Old 08-12-2018, 04:34 PM   #33
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sdowney - you're so right. And R134 exists because it has way higher profit margins than ozone hole causing R11/12. The intersection of Dupont and environmental regulators. See (if you're really bored) https://eng.ucmerced.edu/people/awes...gnments/DuPont .

R1234yr is nothing to worry about according to the manufacturer. And even if it is, it's only around for a little while. Besides, how often has anyone even heard of a car fire?

Carbonyl fluoride is generated in the combustion of R1234yr. CF is a first but more potent cousin of phosgene - think WWI gas attacks. Its highly corrosive, penetrating skin incredibly quickly. Further, it causes severe irritation to the eyes, skin and airways; inhalation damages the alveoli, reaching the circulatory system and killing vital organs.

Nothing to see here, folks. Move along. I fear we have become a technologically illiterate society.
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Old 08-17-2018, 12:17 PM   #34
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Having permanent moorage in Discovery Harbour, this is a huge issue for me and many others here who are in the same situation, including liveaboards. I have no room for a grey water tank, and even if I did, how would I empty it?
How to lose business 101.
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Old 08-17-2018, 12:50 PM   #35
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Is the policy in Discovery Harbour being enforced
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Old 08-17-2018, 04:52 PM   #36
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Grey water

Thank you for the feedback regarding Grey Water in the Marina.

We are limited by the size of the facility we have to what we can allow to happen within the Marina. We understand that washing your dishes and other smaller tasks that produce grey water are inevitable and will undoubtedly make it into the Marina. Our concerns come from larger tasks such as showers and laundry. We have well over 400 boats in our Marina and large discharges of Grey Water especially at similar times of the day is not good for the harbour's image or the resident wildlife. We have laundry services onsite and we even offer free showers to our guests to help eliminate this issue. For those that do have grey tanks, we have just purchased a pump out boat to help eliminate any discharges to the Harbour.

I do appreciate the feedback and your understanding that we do realize some grey water will make it into the Marina, its all our responsibility to limit it.

Thank you and if you would like to discuss further please call me at the Marina office.

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Old 08-17-2018, 05:08 PM   #37
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Is the policy in Discovery Harbour being enforced
Not to my knowledge at the moment. A posting of the rules (there are many other rules, most of which make sense) also stated that they will be in full effect as of January 1 2019.
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Old 08-17-2018, 05:57 PM   #38
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Thank you for the feedback regarding Grey Water in the Marina.

We are limited by the size of the facility we have to what we can allow to happen within the Marina. We understand that washing your dishes and other smaller tasks that produce grey water are inevitable and will undoubtedly make it into the Marina. Our concerns come from larger tasks such as showers and laundry. We have well over 400 boats in our Marina and large discharges of Grey Water especially at similar times of the day is not good for the harbour's image or the resident wildlife. We have laundry services onsite and we even offer free showers to our guests to help eliminate this issue. For those that do have grey tanks, we have just purchased a pump out boat to help eliminate any discharges to the Harbour.

I do appreciate the feedback and your understanding that we do realize some grey water will make it into the Marina, its all our responsibility to limit it.

Thank you and if you would like to discuss further please call me at the Marina office.

Trevor
GM, Discovery Harbour Marina

Thanks for stepping in and helping clarify things for us Trevor. As someone who hopes to make it up your way in the future, I really appreciate it.


So if we are a visiting boat, can we assume that the policy is no showering or laundry in the marina unless we have a gray water tank? If that is clear, I would have no problem complying with that requirement and using the shoreside laundry and shower facilities. If OTOH, the policy is NO gray water discharge, such as sinks etc... that becomes a problem as on my boat we couldn't even wash our hands after using the head and I would need to avoid Discovery Harbor Marina.
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