Drones!

[cardude01]

Is anyone bringing their drone to the TF gathering?

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Seevee

Rufus,

Doesn't sound ike you're an aviator because you don't understand and don't know the facts.

And drones won't be controlled anymore that cars are. The idiot operators of either won't pay attention to laws.

Naval aviator. Coast Guard aviator. Navy Test Pilot School @ Patuxent River, Navy and FAA engineering test pilot. Society of Experimental Test Pilots, FAA aircraft certification manager. I assure you I understand the facts regarding drone certification, operation, and associated political games played by the industry. I too despise big government. That's not the issue.

The automotive environment requires that vehicles be built to a safety standard and periodically inspected, that operator competency be tested and operators be licensed. There is a robust system of operator oversight by a multitude of government policing organizations. It's coming for the drone segment. BTW, if the FAA decides to cede a low altitude segment of airspace to other government entities, you will not like the outcome. Why? Because the population at large will become the bogey man....and they don't like drones. They will be legislated to death.

(You seem to be suggesting that airline pilot unions endorse the current situation with drones. Really?)

[Ski in NC]

So, Rufus, let's do a little risk analysis:

So we have drones that might weigh 5 lbs tops, carrying no fuel and no passengers.

Control system failure: Thing falls out of the sky and hits the ground or water. Probability of it injuring someone one the ground does exist, but the probability of an injury is very low. No passengers killed, no fuel fire on inpact site.

Single failure of one of four motors: Thing inverts and crashes, results same as above.

Flying into path of passenger aircraft: not very likely as the drone crowd is well aware to keep away from aircraft and airports. And passenger aircraft are designed to withstand a birdstrike of something larger than these drones.

Ill intent by a drone operator: Possible, but hard to legislate away someone's ill intent. And there are much more effective tools of destruction available if someone is so inclined. Like guns and bombs.

Comparing the drones to cars and large aircraft is ludicrous. A 2-3 ton vehicle can do a LOT of damage if out of control. Likewise with a fixed or rotary wing aircraft large enough for a pilot and passengers. Lots of damage possible and we have seen it.

I just can't see the little drones being anywhere near as capable of such damage and thus regulating them to a similar level is just silly.

You could do as much damage/injury with a slingshot and an apple.

I think you just are annoyed by them. I understand that. There could be situations where I too would be annoyed. But going heavy on regulation is not reasonable.

I'm annoyed to all heck by weedeaters and leafblowers. But I am not seeking relief from the govt or police to solve the issue.

[Rufus]

Sounds like a pitch from the drone lobby.


Drone incursions into controlled airspace are becoming commonplace.


Another poster suggested that drones won't be regulated any more than cars. I pointed out the extent of regulation in the auto world....about right for drones.


A motor failure isn't as simple as the drone flipping over and dropping straight down. If there was a horizontal velocity vector at the time of the failure, it might be altered, but it won't go away. Likewise, if a failure occurred in a hover, it's difficult to predict what the flight control system would do to the flight path. Look a you tube videos. They tend to scoot off willy nilly....with a horizontal velocity component.


I'm not OK with slashing some kid's face. The FAA has a mandate to protect the safety of people and property on the ground. The rule doesn't say it's OK to severely injure them. How silly is that? The regulation was ignored in the case of drones, and self policing was put in its place. Doesn't work. Never does.


The probability of a drone crashing into a crowd following a motor/prop failure is much higher than a manned (controlled) equivalent.


Sane people driving cars and aircraft have a self preservation motive as well as the ability (control) to avoid crashing into crowds. Hobbyist drone operators have little idea as to what happens when things go wrong. They're supposed to give people and property a wide berth. They don't. Last summer a drone was flying around over the finish line of the annual mini-marathon in the village. I walked over and asked the operator if he'd cleared the flight with village management. He said he did. Then I asked him if he was familiar with FAA rules regarding drone operation over people. He gave me a blank look, stammered, landed his device, and made for the parking lot.


I can't be convinced that the drone community doesn't need oversight. It's just a matter of time.

[psneeld]

My son who just got out of the Navy as an H60 aircrewman, and avid RC plane and drone enthusiast, laughed when we discussed this thread.

He, like I know ....there is a huge safety mentality difference between being in something and looking through the eye of a camera at the act of flying.

[Cigatoo]

He like I know....there is a huge safety mentality difference between being in something and looking through the eye of a camera at the act of flying.

It’s called having skin in the game. Literally

[psneeld]

Thats why when someone asked me what my point was, I was laugjing to hard too respond.

While Ski has some good points....

At a closure rate of over 100 knots and an altitude of less than 200 feet.... I am not sure of the outcome of a decent sized drone, helo windshield and how the crew reacts when impact occurs. If there are any obstructions around what seemed to be a nice clear waterway they were searching., a fearful mess could occur.

You know how quick water inpact is from 200 feet, 100 knots and a shattered windshield? Thankfully I only know from accident reports, not mine.

[ssobol]

Originally Posted by Rufus

.. that operator competency be tested and operators be licensed. ...

Automobile operators are usually on tested when they first get a license or change residence states. In my state, you used to only have to go to the DMV every other driver's license renewal (alternate ones are via mail). My next license renewal is in 8 years. After the initial issue, there is no competency check of driving skills, only an vision test.

Basically, if you can get to the DMV and pass the vision test you can keep your license.

[HopCar]

Bunch of sissy’s. You should see the damage I could do with an ultralight airplane. I once almost took out a B-52. Drones ain’t nothin.

[leeman]

Originally Posted by HopCar

Bunch of sissy’s. You should see the damage I could do with an ultralight airplane. I once almost took out a B-52. Drones ain’t nothin.

Now this is getting interesting!

[firstbase]

Yep, Parks you can't just leave it at that....come on...tell the story...!

[psneeld]

until 2 or 3 years ago, I knew a few people with RC planes, and they were "enthusiasts".

now I know dozens with drones and a few are enthusiasts.

kinda like after the early days of jet skis, right when they peaked in popularity.

not too diffetent with other fads/hobbies.....

[HopCar]

Originally Posted by firstbase

Yep, Parks you can't just leave it at that....come on...tell the story...!

It’s not quote that exciting. I was doing a demo flight at an event at Homestead AFB. I was flying over the runway. The B52 and other aircraft were lined up along the runway. There was a fairly strong cross wind that was coming over a line of trees and had formed a rotor. The rotor grabbed me and threw me right at the B52. I dropped the nose to get speed and kicked the rudder hard over. Nothing changed for a second or two then all of a sudden the plane rolled away from the bomber and I could start a climb. When this happened I was at less than fifty feet headed right for the wing root on the bomber.

I don’t think anyone on the ground knew I was in trouble.

I decided conditions were not good, landed, folded up the ultralight, changed my underwear and went home.

[GoneFarrell]

Parks,
Great story, thanks for sharing!

I'm kinda far from your 'hood just now (being in baja for the winter), but I'd buy the first couple rounds with you sometime to compare notes!

[HopCar]

Originally Posted by GoneFarrell

Parks,
Great story, thanks for sharing!

I'm kinda far from your 'hood just now (being in baja for the winter), but I'd buy the first couple rounds with you sometime to compare notes!

I’d enjoy that. Not many of us old Noisy Birdmen left.

[firstbase]

Thanks Parks. Got my Pilot's License back in 1983 and have always wanted to try ultralights. Just never got there. I have to admit, as fast as things happen in an airplane that has to be times 10 in an ultralight.. they sort of scare me...

Thread drift. My bad as they say.

[HopCar]

Originally Posted by firstbase

Thanks Parks. Got my Pilot's License back in 1983 and have always wanted to try ultralights. Just never got there. I have to admit, as fast as things happen in an airplane that has to be times 10 in an ultralight.. they sort of scare me...

Thread drift. My bad as they say.

They scared me too many times.
On the subject of danger to people on the ground, a friend of mine used to write “It’s your *” . He meant it was our ass to risk, not the innocent people on the ground. Don’t fly where you could injure someone on the ground. I think the same applies to drones. But seriously, they are a lot less dangerous than an airplane, helicopter or even a car. All of these things have killed innocent bystanders.

[caltexflanc]

I'm here at CES all week. Every drone known to man is on display. Curious, this is a boating forum, has anyone mentioned underwater drones? Big category. Both wired and wireless

[what_barnacles]

wow, now that looks interesting.

Originally Posted by caltexflanc

[twistedtree]

Have you seen the SnotBot? Ocean Alliance developed it to collect whale bio samples from their blows. Previous sampling was via physical probes jabbed into the whale. Its a huge improvement. We are probably going to host them for a research run in the Sea of Cortez later this year.