Donating a three hour sunset cruise

[Omikeoreilly]

Hey folk's
I am thinking about donating a Three hour sunset cruise on my Grand Banks
42. Silent Auction. I am happy to pay the gas, catering etc. Think it is worth at least $1k for my favorite charity. Has any one had experience doing this?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

 

[HopCar]

Never heard of it being done but why not?

 

[John R M]

It has been done numerous times in Ontario, but more so on sailboats.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. O. Sounds like a wonderful idea. I would check with local authorities about any regulations regarding such a venture. Almost sure you will be OK but you never know with some laws or jurisdictions.
Also check with your insurance company.


Belt and suspenders....

 

[trihartsfield]

I think that is a great idea!!

 

[slowgoesit]

Sounds cool, . . . . however, you might want to run it by your insurance carrier. Some insurance companies may look at that money was paid by the "passengers", even if not to you, so in the event of an insurance claim, they may be able to claim that you were "chartering" your vessel . . .

If you are licensed, and the boat has charter insurance, than disregard my post, but out of an abundance of caution, I would just run it past my insurance, probably by phone, then follow up with an e-mail so you have something in writing. JMHO

 

[GFC]

We donated several dinner cruises for four to various charities but rather than set a price, they were auctioned off at annual fund raising events. My wife would fix a 5-6 course gourmet meal that was prepared on board. I let them drive until dinner time then I would take over whilst my wife would serve them dinner. We stayed out until after sunset so they could view the sunset then we would cruise back to the dock.

The cruises went for anywhere from about $350 on the low end up to $1,000 for an afternoon cruise for 18 people.

 

[tiltrider1]

If you are not a licensed captain you will be breaking the law. There is case law on this. Granted you are not likely to get caught.

There is never an issue until there is an issue.

 

[Andy G]

We have done something similar over the years.

Rather than a sunset cruise we do a full day on the boat for 10 people, morning nibbles, lunch(BBQ), a swim, plus kayaking etc then afternoon tea and drinks before heading back to the club at sunset.

It's a BYO event(to get around licencing laws). We offer the trip as an auction prize for some of the spinal cord charities we try to help. We specifically try to support those who have had accidents through rugby.

The prize usually goes for around the $2,000.00 mark.We do all the food and non alcoholic drinks, it works very well. Everyone has a great day.

In regard to Insurance we got some informal legal advice from some legal eagles also involved in the fundraising and they saw no real issue. Maybe things in Oz are a bit more relaxed than they are in the US about these things.

I would encourage the OP to look into it. It's immensely satisfying to be able to use the boat to make a bit of a difference and help those who really do need help. In our case they are young men, mostly men, who have suffered catastrophic spinal injuries through sport .

 

[backinblue]

Hey folk's
I am thinking about donating a Three hour sunset cruise on my Grand Banks
42. Silent Auction. I am happy to pay the gas, catering etc. Think it is worth at least $1k for my favorite charity. Has any one had experience doing this?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Where are you located?

 

[Chrisjs]

I have a friend who has done this.

The value of the cruise needs to be determined by the silent auction, not by you. You make an offering detailing what is included in your charitable gift. The auction determines the value and you take that mount as your deduction. Depending on the auction participants, you might get $100 or you might get $3,000. Prudence would suggest you set a minimum bid.

If you choose to assign a value yourself, you can only include direct costs for the cruise such as food, drink and fuel, plus a very small allocation of annual costs such as dockage, insurance, maintenance, etc. Those costs should be allocated on proportioned basis - 1 day out of your normal cruising season ( eg 1/180). If you think to include your time, that income would be taxable to you and offset the deduction, though you could claim for paid crew.
This is my understanding of the situation but I am not a tax professional. Perhaps there is one in the TF?

 

[MYTraveler]

It's a BYO event(to get around licencing laws). We offer the trip as an auction prize for some of the spinal cord charities we try to help.

That won't get you around the USCG licensing requirements, which apply when a passenger pays, even if not to you. And if it isn't legal, good chance it is not insured.

 

[MYTraveler]

I have a friend who has done this.

The value of the cruise needs to be determined by the silent auction, not by you. You make an offering detailing what is included in your charitable gift. The auction determines the value and you take that mount as your deduction.
This is my understanding of the situation but I am not a tax professional. Perhaps there is one in the TF?

In general, your deduction will be limited to your basis (basically, your cost in providing the service), not its market value. Your direct costs (fuel, etc.) won't be much, and neither will your indirect costs (a day's depreciation, moorage, insurance, etc.,), although claiming those indirects in such a situation will be grey area at best.

 

[Chrisjs]

I would add that my friend has no understanding whatsoever of finance or taxes, and has gotten away with whatever he claims!! You might not be so lucky, but then who knows!!

 

[Chrisjs]

MYTraveler is correct about the value of your donation. It is the cost to you, not the amount paid at auction. Here is a very clear article explaining this:

https://pocketsense.com/tax-deductions-donating-silent-auctions-8756946.html

So it is a nice thig to do for the charity but hardly worth the effort for you purely in terms of taking a charitable deduction.

 

[backinblue]

I didn't get the impression that the OP was looking to get paid or looking for a deduction, but that's just my take, I've been wrong before.

 

[Lollygag1]

We did this for a charity church auction. Watched the bidders to ensure it was someone we knew so there would not be issues. If we felt there was going to be someone we did not know we would have just put in the highest bid.

 

[Conrad]

Just don't refer to it as a "Three Hour Tour"....

 

[koliver]

Hey folk's
I am thinking about donating a Three hour sunset cruise on my Grand Banks
42. Silent Auction. I am happy to pay the gas, catering etc. Think it is worth at least $1k for my favorite charity. Has any one had experience doing this?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

That is a great idea. There are frequently such events here in BC. The donated boat ride is simply that. a donation made by a boater who has allowed a charity event to have a boat ride in their list of prizes at an auction, whether live or silent.
The donating boater simply allows the winner of the auction onto the boat for the donated date, provides whatever has been specified in the donation and everyone has a great time. No money changes hands to compensate the boater. After all, this is a donation.

I haven't done one, so I don't know if there can be a tax receipt given by the charity, but it is such small potatoes, I wouldn't expect one.

 

[backinblue]

Maybe I misunderstood, but if looking for a deduction, yes you can get away with almost anything you want to deduct within reason.

 

[Arc]

Definitely a gray area . If they were invited guests , you might be fine.

 

[tiltrider1]

I can’t speak for Canada but I can tell you how it will go down in the USA.

If an accident happens the Coast Guard will investigate. Part of the investigation will be the responsibilities of each person on board. This is were it will be discovered that your guest paid a charity for the right to take the boat trip. At this point the Coast Guard will charge you for operating the charter with out a Captains License. This will also be used against you by anyone who is injured regardless of who is at fault. Suddenly rather than them needing to prove you are at fault you will be the one needing to prove that you are not at fault.

Granted if there is no incident then likely nothing will ever come of operating an illegal charter.

 

[jgtrucking]

I can’t speak for Canada but I can tell you how it will go down in the USA.

If an accident happens the Coast Guard will investigate. Part of the investigation will be the responsibilities of each person on board. This is were it will be discovered that your guest paid a charity for the right to take the boat trip. At this point the Coast Guard will charge you for operating the charter with out a Captains License. This will also be used against you by anyone who is injured regardless of who is at fault. Suddenly rather than them needing to prove you are at fault you will be the one needing to prove that you are not at fault.

Granted if there is no incident then likely nothing will ever come of operating an illegal charter.

Absolutly correct. There is no grey area. To the USCG this is an illegal charter. It is unlikely to get caught, unless there is an accident, or the wrong guest stubbs their toe.

 

[Andy G]

Absolutly correct. There is no grey area. To the USCG this is an illegal charter. It is unlikely to get caught, unless there is an accident, or the wrong guest stubbs their toe.

Obviously different jurisdictions operate under differing rules. However, I think it is a little sad when government departments and legal regulations make it difficult for people to donate time and resources to help out good causes.

 

[psneeld]

I am not sure doing this for charity is a black and white issue.


The following on "consideration" isn't so clear in this case to me.


I would call the USCG and get a persons mane and position and their answer if it is a Passenger for Hire" situation.


https://www.maritimelawcenter.com/html/the_jones_act.html

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]The Passenger Services Act provides the legislation that controls the operation of passenger vessels in coastwise trade. The difficult issue has always been what constitutes a "passenger".The general definition has been any person other than the ship's master, a crew member or any person engaged in the ship's business. The "for hire" issue involves any consideration flowing from the passenger to the ship owner, charterer, agent or any person involved in the ship. The consideration has been construed to be using a company yacht for entertaining customers or clients to develop "business goodwill". Carried to its logical conclusion would require any vessel unless used solely for personal pleasure to be registered for coastwise trade and inspected.

It does not appear to be the Coast Guard's policy to go to this extreme. It is reasonable to assume that any vessel that transport passengers on a regular or irregular basis must be inspected and licensed for coastwise trade.

Please note that under new regulations, there are different categories of vessels subject to inspection, which include: "passenger vessels"; "small passenger vessel"; "offshore vessels"; and "uninspected passenger vessels".
[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[Alaskaflyer]

[/B]

Obviously different jurisdictions operate under differing rules. However, I think it is a little sad when government departments and legal regulations make it difficult for people to donate time and resources to help out good causes.

The counterpoint is, when people put up consideration for a voyage on offer, the expectation is that they be treated the same as if they bought a ticket, which for many of these people is probably how they view what they are doing, however charitable the endeavor.

Otherwise, the whole maritime licensing scheme is useless. Some might feel that way anyhow but the line must be drawn somewhere. When consideration transfers is probably a good place to draw it.

 

[psneeld]

The counterpoint is, when people put up consideration for a voyage on offer, the expectation is that they be treated the same as if they bought a ticket, which for many of these people is probably how they view what they are doing, however charitable the endeavor.

Otherwise, the whole maritime licensing scheme is useless. Some might feel that way anyhow but the line must be drawn somewhere. When consideration transfers is probably a good place to draw it.

Draw the line, but it doesn't mean it is against the law.


The people who enforce it may not see gray....so I suggest the only way to be sure is call them and get it in writing.

 

[denverd0n]

The counterpoint is, when people put up consideration for a voyage on offer, the expectation is that they be treated the same as if they bought a ticket...

Yeah. This ^^^^

Therein lies the problem. As far as the passengers are concerned, they bought a ticket at the auction. One of them gets hurt, no matter how, and they are going to expect you to bear the same liability that a regular, licensed, charter operation would.

Like others said, it may be different in Canada. Here in the U. S. of A., I personally, would not do it.

 

[slowgoesit]

I didn't get the impression that the OP was looking to get paid or looking for a deduction, but that's just my take, I've been wrong before.

That was my impression as well.

 

[slowgoesit]

Draw the line, but it doesn't mean it is against the law.


The people who enforce it may not see gray....so I suggest the only way to be sure is call them and get it in writing.

I see three points here:

1. Whether it against the law or not. (USCG would probably make that determination) Which they would decide before issuing a citation.
2. How does you insurance company see the issue? (whether to cover a potential loss or not)
3. How the courts would see it? (regardless what the USCG or your insurance company sees it, the courts could still decide differently . . . . ) This would come into play if someone gets injured and sues you.

I agree it's unfortunate when laws, and our litigious society penalize us for doing good deeds, but whether you agree with it or not, it's the world we live in.

I am not an attorney, but I am just saying that whatever you decide, you need to make that decision with your eyes wide open. . . .

Best wishes in whatever you decide, and good on you for offering to help people out!