DIY holding tank treatment

[gholmesbm]

Just Science

To help avoid confusion for those who wish to try it out...

For those not familiar with the products, "Tank Techs Rx" and "Forget about it for Boats" are the same product in different packaging. The former was marketed to the RV market and the latter to the boating market. We usually found the former was sold at lower prices - no surprise.

They have recently both been re-branded to be called Just Science.

We have used the product successfully for several years on our boats.

 

[Bacchus]

I've never had a smell problem with the holding tank. It's a closed system, and the only vent is for when it's being emptied.
BUT, to circumvent any problems, I found this stuff
https://www.pacificnwboatertested.c...science-tank-treatment?variant=31912304771177
It's not expensive, and you only need a cap full every time you get a pumpout. One 16 oz bottle will last you a year or more.

You guys think way too much about this **** (pun intended!). Your spending valuable time, and consequently money (if you think your time isn't worth anything, you're wrong) when $25 bucks a year will take care of all your problems. If your system is put together correctly, and you do a minimum amount of maintenance, it works and it doesn't stink.

Can you elaborate more about your closed system? Never heard there was such a thing.
What happens to the vapor when you flush and the tank fills with luquid / solids?

 

[backinblue]

I have a feeling he may be mistaken. If there is a vent that lets air in when doing a pumpout, how does it not vent air out of the tank when filling it?

 

[Comodave]

And if there wasn’t a vent the holding tank would likely be collapsed when it was pumped out.

 

[HeadMistress]

True of most systems, but there's one version of the Dometic/SeaLand VacuFlush system--the VHT-- in which the vacuum tank and holding tank are the same tank. Instead of a proper tank vent that allows the tank to breathe, there's only a "pressure relief valve" that opens to allow a pumpout to pull in air. I don't THINK it's still in production.



--Peggie

 

[backinblue]

Thanks Peggie. Can you weigh in on Noflex vs. generic alternatives such as Steve suggested? I'm also finding that some sites recommend adding bacteria tablets such as this in addition to the Noflex. Do you agree?

https://marinesan.com/tank-teria-10pk/

 

[ronobrien]

Just in case you are looking for 12VDC unit. https://www.amazon.com/B15-Marine-M...=12+volt+fish+air+pump&qid=1662385722&sr=8-13

 

[HeadMistress]

Can you weigh in on Noflex vs. generic alternatives such as Steve suggested?

Nope. And you don't want my opinion of the people who are waging that debate.

I've never heard of the other two products before, so I have no opinion about those.

--Peggie

 

[backinblue]

Can you weigh in on Noflex vs. generic alternatives such as Steve suggested?

Nope. And you don't want my opinion of the people who are waging that debate.

I've never heard of the other two products before, so I have no opinion about those.

--Peggie

OK, I get it and I understand. Do you at least have an opinion or any data that supports adding "odor-eating bacteria" to a holding tank system and if so, would that seem to be compatible with NoFlex? Some products seem to take this approach and a few members here says it works well. For the record, I did some searching and I do see NoFlex is available for $19.99 on some sites like Defender and MarineSan so I will continue to use the real stuff rather than trying to create my own. That's an acceptable price to me compared to Amazon at about $35.

 

[HeadMistress]

Bio-active (bacterial) odor prevention can only be achieved in aerobic conditions, achievable using aeration without "odor eating bacteria" or any other tank product...and often passively with sufficient ventilation and a non-toxic tank product.

As for whether any bacteria are compatible with any other tank product, it's not matter of whether the bacteria will interfere with the other product, it's whether the other product kills the bacteria...which would be true of toxic chemical products like Thetford Aqua Kem etc.

There are very few instances when a bacteria additive is called for...one is Type II MSDs (treatment devices for boats 66' +) that have large tanks. The legal limit for bacteria count in the discharge from a Type II is 200 per 100 milliliters and 150 milligrams of total suspended solids (compare that to 100 grains of instant coffee) per liter. So it can be necessary to use a live bacteria additive to accelerate breakdown of solids and TP. Adequate ventilation or aeration to create an aerobic environment is all that's needed for odor prevention in a Type II. Be careful not to confuse Type IIs with Type I treatment devices for boats < 66' (ElectroScan, PuraSan etc)

--Peggie

 

[Comodave]

Absolutely, aeration is the key. 20 years ago speaking to Peggie about our holding tank odor problems she advised me to install a Groco Sweetank to provide air to the holding tank. I installed it and for about 2 hours after starting the air pump the smell through the vent was horrible. But then the smell went away and for the next 8 years that we owned the boat we never added any chemicals of any type to the tank and the tank never smelled. We have added a Sweetank to another boat with the same success. On our current boat I added 2 1.5” vents, one to each side of the boat so we get air flow into the tank no matter how the wind is blowing. No smells with it either.

 

[Steven Cyr]

Well i'm surprized you could find me if you had bought the Noflex I think the email dave@gemini-ltd.com is on the bottle and the SDS Gemini Packaging number should have been there. There is something wrong if the Noflex didn't work at lower levels We do offer above and beyond customer support. Prices are cheaper if you don't buy the connivance of Amazon Try Marine Sanitation, Fishery Supply. Defender way cheaper . The chemicals you are ordering are hazardous and legally you should not be able to ship thru the mail and could you please not use the Noflex bottle we pay money to have $10 mil insurance on the product.

If this is Dave, I sent you a message at dave@gemini-ltd.com on June 10 2022 from captcyr@yahoo.com, to see if there was a more cost effective size container that I could purchase. I never received a reply. I just checked my junkmail as well to be sure I didn't miss your reply.

I only purchased the product at Defender, but 1 lb containers @$20 is just not cost effective. We are on the boat 24/7 and the head goes through a lot of use. If I could have purchased for $8-10 /lb, I probably wouldn't have tried an alternative.

 

[Bacchus]

Steve
Ted (OC Diver) has done a good job of documenting his use of sodium percarbonate for treatment. My plan is to follow his lead after using up my supply of NF. I believe adequate air is still essential but I have not done the ne essary experiments to really know which combinations of NoFlex, modified vent or bubbler will work in my situation. I know the combo works and plan to continue e Capt switching to SPC. I may experiment if/when my bubbler fails but so far it has amazingly durable and well worth the small investment.

 

[Comodave]

I am in the process of following Ted’s cleaning method. I started by pumping the holding tank and flushing it until clear water came out. Our tank is 50 gallons and has a brown line about the 30 gallon mark, maybe. I flushed some down the head and also tried to leave some in the hose from the head to the tank to clean out the hoses hopefully. After I had added about 20 gallons to the tank through the pump out fitting I started seeing suds coming out of one of the vent through hulls. I have 2 1.5” vents, one to each side. So I stopped adding the sodium perconate mixture to the tank. Not sure if it is just really sudsy in the tank or what. I am going to wait a couple of days and see if the tank starts to come clean and maybe I can see through the side what is going on.

 

[Derek]

I was wondering and maybe Peggy is reading…. After the loop we bought an RV AND HIT 22 states. For the head we used an amazing product called happy campers RV friend. HAPPY CAMPERS RV Holding Tank Treatment - 130 Treatments https://a.co/d/hwuqyG1. Was gonna give this a try on the boat next week

 

[Bacchus]

I was wondering and maybe Peggy is reading…. After the loop we bought an RV AND HIT 22 states. For the head we used an amazing product called happy campers RV friend. HAPPY CAMPERS RV Holding Tank Treatment - 130 Treatments https://a.co/d/hwuqyG1. Was gonna give this a try on the boat next week

I've read about that many times and wondered what it is and how it works.
I never took the time to look up the MSD and figure out the ingredients.

Would appreciate any / all feedback.

 

[MVDarlin]

Note: I discovered the stink caused by flushing the aft head in my boat came from the salt water feed line, not the tank. This is especially strong and turns brown when the boat has been unused for a few weeks in a hot climate. The line becomes a petri dish of foul smelling growth.
The salt water feed line for my aft head has to run horizontal for 10 ft to a through hull under the aft cabin. I solved this 15 years ago by adding a 2" "T" manifold to the salt water feed line. The manifold has a 1" barb fitting for feed and outflow connection to the head and a 2" threaded cap. I buy pool supply chlorinator tablets and break them in half and insert into the 2" cap opening then screw on the cap. This treats the salt water feed and the feed line with some chlorinated back wash everytine the toilet is flushed. No stink.

 

[dhays]

Note: I discovered the stink caused by flushing the aft head in my boat came from the salt water feed line, not the tank. This is especially strong and turns brown when the boat has been unused for a few weeks in a hot climate. The line becomes a petri dish of foul smelling growth.

The salt water feed line for my aft head has to run horizontal for 10 ft to a through hull under the aft cabin. I solved this 15 years ago by adding a 2" "T" manifold to the salt water feed line. The manifold has a 1" barb fitting for feed and outflow connection to the head and a 2" threaded cap. I buy pool supply chlorinator tablets and break them in half and insert into the 2" cap opening then screw on the cap. This treats the salt water feed and the feed line with some chlorinated back wash everytine the toilet is flushed. No stink.

Salt water can get smelly when sitting in the line as you mention. I had the same issue on my sailboats. It only is a problem the first time the head is flushed. After that it isn’t an issue. Putting Chlorine in the line is adding chlorine to your holding tank. That will in turn tend to kill off the aerobic bacteria which helps break up waste in the tank as reduces odor.

I used to deal with the issue by flushing the head when first boarding the boat and just expecting the rotten egg smell for a few minutes. I would also put water from the sink into the toilet and flushing it once when leaving the boat. This pretty much took care of the issue.

 

[Chrismcd]

Weight or Volume proportions?

Steven, I just mixed up your DIY formula, but have a question about the mix proportions. Did you mix by weight or by volume? It appears that the detergent is lighter than the sodium percarbonate. I mixed by volume so I may be a little shy on detergent if you weighed your products. Thanks for your good information. Chris

 

[Sea Q]

If this is Dave, I sent you a message at dave@gemini-ltd.com on June 10 2022 from captcyr@yahoo.com, to see if there was a more cost effective size container that I could purchase. I never received a reply. I just checked my junkmail as well to be sure I didn't miss your reply.

I only purchased the product at Defender, but 1 lb containers @$20 is just not cost effective. We are on the boat 24/7 and the head goes through a lot of use. If I could have purchased for $8-10 /lb, I probably wouldn't have tried an alternative.

Marine San and Fishery are cheapest Consider the $30 lobster and the $20 wine you drank to make the stinky before you say Noflex is over priced.

 

[Sea Q]

If this is Dave, I sent you a message at dave@gemini-ltd.com on June 10 2022 from captcyr@yahoo.com, to see if there was a more cost effective size container that I could purchase. I never received a reply. I just checked my junkmail as well to be sure I didn't miss your reply.

I only purchased the product at Defender, but 1 lb containers @$20 is just not cost effective. We are on the boat 24/7 and the head goes through a lot of use. If I could have purchased for $8-10 /lb, I probably wouldn't have tried an alternative.

Long time ago we used to supply a 2 kg size for the Navy and freighters for the auto dosing machines .We found the crew would leave container open or get water in the jar and the product wasn't free flowing after . Management preferred the smaller size .Larger sizes did not equate to much savings in final cost .

 

[slowgoesit]

Note: I discovered the stink caused by flushing the aft head in my boat came from the salt water feed line, not the tank. This is especially strong and turns brown when the boat has been unused for a few weeks in a hot climate. The line becomes a petri dish of foul smelling growth.
The salt water feed line for my aft head has to run horizontal for 10 ft to a through hull under the aft cabin. I solved this 15 years ago by adding a 2" "T" manifold to the salt water feed line. The manifold has a 1" barb fitting for feed and outflow connection to the head and a 2" threaded cap. I buy pool supply chlorinator tablets and break them in half and insert into the 2" cap opening then screw on the cap. This treats the salt water feed and the feed line with some chlorinated back wash everytine the toilet is flushed. No stink.

We had this identical problem. From our sea chest to the fwd head is about 25' of hose for the sea water flush. It took about 35 strokes of the handle on our Groco Model K toilet to start getting new sea water (non stinky) into the toilet. That resulted in way too much water in the holding tank. We replaced the raw water flush head with the Raritan Marine Elegance, fresh water flush last week. So far we absolutely LOVE it!
I'm not sure why you guys have to add any chemicals to the holding tank. Even with the stinky stagnant sea water, the holding tank didn't stink, just the water while flushing the toilet.
IMHO, as long as your holding tank has adequate ventilation, and you are using sufficient water to flush, most of those expensive black tank chemicals are a solution in search of a problem.
Also, just for info, the Raritan Marine Elegance specifically tells you NOT to use any pine related or chlorine based treatments in their toilets.

 

[Comodave]

We had this identical problem. From our sea chest to the fwd head is about 25' of hose for the sea water flush. It took about 35 strokes of the handle on our Groco Model K toilet to start getting new sea water (non stinky) into the toilet. That resulted in way too much water in the holding tank. We replaced the raw water flush head with the Raritan Marine Elegance, fresh water flush last week. So far we absolutely LOVE it! I'm not sure why you guys have to add any chemicals to the holding tank. Even with the stinky stagnant sea water, the holding tank didn't stink, just the water while flushing the toilet. IMHO, as long as your holding tank has adequate ventilation, and you are using sufficient water to flush, most of those expensive black tank chemicals are a solution in search of a problem.
Also, just for info, the Raritan Marine Elegance specifically tells you NOT to use any pine related or chlorine based treatments in their toilets.

Absolutely agree on both points about the ME head and ventilation in the holding tank. See my post #41.

 

[SoWhat]

Marine San and Fishery are cheapest Consider the $30 lobster and the $20 wine you drank to make the stinky before you say Noflex is over priced.

Pay $100K for a boat, $5K/yr for mooring, won't pay $30/yr for a jar of NoFlex. Will spend many hours purchasing bulk chemicals, mixing them, and then storing a 5 year supply in old NoFlex containers, all to save $15 a year.

Think I'll just buy the NoFlex.

 

[Dwk]

Pay $100K for a boat, $5K/yr for mooring, won't pay $30/yr for a jar of NoFlex. Will spend many hours purchasing bulk chemicals, mixing them, and then storing a 5 year supply in old NoFlex containers, all to save $15 a year.

Think I'll just buy the NoFlex.

So true! We all know air movement is key for holding tanks so why not give a boost for pennies a season.

 

[sunchaser]

Pay $100K for a boat, $5K/yr for mooring, won't pay $30/yr for a jar of NoFlex. Will spend many hours purchasing bulk chemicals, mixing them, and then storing a 5 year supply in old NoFlex containers, all to save $15 a year.

Think I'll just buy the NoFlex.

Yup, this post pretty well sums it up.

 

[backinblue]

Pay $100K for a boat, $5K/yr for mooring, won't pay $30/yr for a jar of NoFlex. Will spend many hours purchasing bulk chemicals, mixing them, and then storing a 5 year supply in old NoFlex containers, all to save $15 a year.

Think I'll just buy the NoFlex.

Good point, although your $100K and $5K numbers are quite conservative!

 

[Bacchus]

Pay $100K for a boat, $5K/yr for mooring, won't pay $30/yr for a jar of NoFlex. Will spend many hours purchasing bulk chemicals, mixing them, and then storing a 5 year supply in old NoFlex containers, all to save $15 a year.

Think I'll just buy the NoFlex.

Interesting but IMO a gross exaggeration!
When my supply runs out I have all intentions of ordering generic SPC which wont take any longer, and n fact less time than finding the high price spread. I can dose the same as usual with an addition of another component periodically and spend the difference on the wine & lobster that he purveyor has thrown in the face of his customers.
Steve Cyr... Thanks for your willingness to share helpful info for boaters. you are to be commended not chastised. We are all (well most) here to learn... some help and others criticize those sharing.

 

[Stabi]

Interesting but IMO a gross exaggeration!
When my supply runs out I have all intentions of ordering generic SPC which wont take any longer, and n fact less time than finding the high price spread. I can dose the same as usual with an addition of another component periodically and spend the difference on the wine & lobster that he purveyor has thrown in the face of his customers.
Steve Cyr... Thanks for your willingness to share helpful info for boaters. you are to be commended not chastised. We are all (well most) here to learn... some help and others criticize those sharing.

 

[SteveK]

After using up the last of the noflex we went in search of a new product.
Found SEPTICSOL
Have gone through two bottles, 6 treatments and have not had a smell emitted since.
Wife approved.
Bonus, made nearby, available at Canadian Tire or amazon for about $15 Can$.
For $5 per tank I will not be mixing chemicals. I see amazon has a US gallon for $49.