Chevron Delo 400 lube oil

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Shell Rotella 40 wt is also CF II rated , might be easier to find.
 
FF said:
Shell Rotella 40 wt is also CF II rated , might be easier to find.
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Good point. And for the most part, all of the similar spec HDEO diesel oils are pretty comparable performance wise. When new versions come out, sometimes people find one to perform slightly better than the others, but it's never a large difference.
 
Thanks to all. I'm used to going to COSTCO and paying in the 40 buck range for a case of gallons. Spent a lot of time on the computer and WILLY was right, cheapest at Walmart and they deliver free. Bought 12 gallons to be delivered tomorrow. Bought some for next year's change also. Appreciate the input from all.
 
The wrong oil formulation WILL shorten the life of the engine.

Delo 400 40W used to be the proper oil for DD's but they reformulated it over 10 years ago and Delo 100 40W became the correct oil.

Note that oils are no longer certified to CF II due to the cost. However this doesn't mean that Delo 100 is no longer okay for CF II. Just that you may not be able to find it on the label.

I don't have my boat with detroits any more but the last few years I was buying straight from Johnson & Towers and the price was pretty decent.

My Twin disc 507 could use either straight 30W or straight 40W so I always ran the 40W which is the same as the engines for simplicity.
 
So, was there a large number of DD failures before or after the reformulation?
 
I use Rotella. If it's good enough for the Cummins Diesel in my Dodge (best damm motor ever put in a vehicle, bar none) it's good enough for my Volvo-Penta MD17C, which is just an "average" boat motor.
 
Rotella is Shell oil and Delo is Chevron.
That may be the biggest difference.
Could be less than the Ford/Chevy thing.
 
FF said:
"Agreed. Changing oils won't hurt as long as the new stuff is appropriate for the needs of the engine. The majority of the engines on this site don't have any super specific oil needs."


The exception being Detroit Diesel 2 strokes that require CFII rated oil of the correct viscosity.
Click to expand...

This!

Detroits require low-ash oil and some formulas have changed over the decades so they are no longer suitable. Detroit owners might want to verify that their Delo oil is still approved.

I know that NAPA 75118 40wt is specifically made for 2 cycle engines.
 
Moby Nick said:
I use Rotella. If it's good enough for the Cummins Diesel in my Dodge (best damm motor ever put in a vehicle, bar none) it's good enough for my Volvo-Penta MD17C, which is just an "average" boat motor.
Click to expand...

Well actually Valvoline Premium Blue is the "Only One" endorsed by Cummins for their engines.

https://youtu.be/LuqBiZaMkds

I use it, but not really for that reason. I like how easy it is to spot a blue drip on the white oil absorber.
BD
 
Yes, absolutely but ANY diesel oil of the correct viscosity will not except, perhaps, in extremely few examples. They are all interchangeable.
jhall767 said:
The wrong oil formulation WILL shorten the life of the engine.

Delo 400 40W used to be the proper oil for DD's but they reformulated it over 10 years ago and Delo 100 40W became the correct oil.

Note that oils are no longer certified to CF II due to the cost. However this doesn't mean that Delo 100 is no longer okay for CF II. Just that you may not be able to find it on the label.

I don't have my boat with detroits any more but the last few years I was buying straight from Johnson & Towers and the price was pretty decent.

My Twin disc 507 could use either straight 30W or straight 40W so I always ran the 40W which is the same as the engines for simplicity.
Click to expand...
 
I switched to Shell Rotella for my Detroits and generators. Walmart has it and you can order online and have it shipped to you, too. I was using Delo 100, but had to order it thru a dealer and pay thru the nose. Now I centrifuge and don't go thru much oil.
 
Lepke said:
I switched to Shell Rotella for my Detroits and generators. Walmart has it and you can order online and have it shipped to you, too. I was using Delo 100, but had to order it thru a dealer and pay thru the nose. Now I centrifuge and don't go thru much oil.
Click to expand...

How do you power the centrifuge? I was told that the oil pressure on Detroits is too low to spin it fast enough.
 
The correct oil is important. Detroit Diesel 2 stroke motors require a low ash oil. There is a lot more information on this on the BoatDiesel forum. The following quote is from Chevron regarding its Delo 100 40W oil:

Delo® 100 oils comply with Detroit Diesel Corporation 2-stroke engine requirements, including the 0.85 ash maximum for Series 149 engines. API Service Categories CF-2, CD II (SAE 30, 40).

Note that Delo 400 is one of many lubricants that does not comply with the 0.85% ash maximum. It's sulphated ash is 1.0%. I see no reason to look elsewhere when the requirement is specifically stated and the correct oil available (if only by special order in some places).

~Alan
 
catalinajack said:
Yes, absolutely but ANY diesel oil of the correct viscosity will not except, perhaps, in extremely few examples. They are all interchangeable.
Click to expand...
Would add/clarify that correct API rating in addition to SAE (viscosity) rating. The API rating would cover "Compression" (diesel) ratings, and presumably the DD debate ongoing here that I have zero knowledge of.

I would enjoy seeing any substantive and credible research that changing oil brand or similar causes any material (or even detectable) deterioration in performance or longevity. Statements to that effect really need a credible citation.

Peter
 
Peter,
If there is a good reason not to change lube oil brands I’m sure it would be due to the additives. Excluding viscosity of course.

There’s at least 10-15 additives in most lube oil. There may be additives that changing could cause problems .. probably very slight but I’ve heard once one starts using a certain kind of lube oil one should not change. Been hearing this from the 50’s.

But I don’t know any real details. Just as an example if one had used a low detergent oil for years and then changed brands and as a result started using a high detergent oil much oil burning, leakage, blow-by and seal problems could happen. I suspect that’s not even possible today because I doubt low detergent lube oil is even on the market now .. to the extent it was in the 50’s.

But few of us (myself included) aren’t experts re additives and listing the additives on the can would not enlighten anybody. It’s not like a box of cereal that lists ingredients and most are common and known by most everybody.

But like detergents in the 50’s there may be additives that would give one pause re changing oil brands. I sure don’t know. But I’m fairly certain there isn’t.
But most of us use readily available common brands and switching among them shouldn’t be even a small problem.

So it’s easy to keep using the same brand and API type of oil. Some will agree to this and others will say Baugh-Humbug .. one can mix brands whenever they want. I don’t. But I just bought a car that had a fresh oil change using an almost unknown oil to me. I’ve probably run it 1000 miles but I’ll change to Castrol soon. And if I pull a trailer w this car I’ll install an oil cooler and start using synthetic oil.

But re our diesel boats switching brands shouldn’t be a problem. But who really knows? The answer is and will probably always be an experienced engineer. Not mechanics.
 
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Nomad Willy said:
Peter,
If there is a good reason not to change lube oil brands I’m sure it would be due to the additives. Excluding viscosity of course.

There’s at least 10-15 additives in most lube oil. There may be additives that changing could cause problems .. probably very slight but I’ve heard once one starts using a certain kind of lube oil one should not change. Been hearing this from the 50’s.

But I don’t know any real details. Just as an example if one had used a low detergent oil for years and then changed brands and as a result started using a high detergent oil much oil burning, leakage, blow-by and seal problems could happen. I suspect that’s not even possible today because I doubt low detergent lube oil is even on the market now .. to the extent it was in the 50’s.

But few of us (myself included) aren’t experts re additives and listing the additives on the can would not enlighten anybody. It’s not like a box of cereal that lists ingredients and most are common and known by most everybody.

But like detergents in the 50’s there may be additives that would give one pause re changing oil brands. I sure don’t know. But I’m fairly certain there isn’t.
But most of us use readily available common brands and switching among them shouldn’t be even a small problem.

So it’s easy to keep using the same brand and API type of oil. Some will agree to this and others will say Baugh-Humbug .. one can mix brands whenever they want. I don’t. But I just bought a car that had a fresh oil change using an almost unknown oil to me. I’ve probably run it 1000 miles but I’ll change to Castrol soon. And if I pull a trailer w this car I’ll install an oil cooler and start using synthetic oil.

But re our diesel boats switching brands shouldn’t be a problem. But who really knows? The answer is and will probably always be an experienced engineer. Not mechanics.
Click to expand...
I had the good fortune of working for the research group in BP for a while - Castrol Lubricants to be a bit more specific. I'm not a scientist, but I work in new product development on the commercial side - intellectual property rights, etc.

Motor Oil has come a long, long way since the 1950s. The additives of today didn't exist back then. In fact, many of the additives of today didn't exist 20 years ago. If you watch the Project Farm video I posted earlier in this thread, he compares a 70 year old can of Quaker State motor oil to modern oil, with an oil analysis too. Old oil was truly sludgy stuff, so much so that some old engines used to have oil slingers to catch the debris and needed to be manually removed, a non-trivial job.

Modern additives all come from just a couple chemical companies and they are used by all the refineries. The API "Wheel" on each container gives you the specification they adhere to. Sounds like DD have a special API rating on ash. It's a good example of reading the manual and understanding the requirements. That said, DD is ancient technology - the oil today is so much better. I don't know crap about DDs except what I read - sounds like Delo 100 is a good oil so for that engine. But I wouldn't lose any sleep of I ran 400 - compared to what DDs ran most of their life, it's a great oil

Each refinery has closely guarded processes for blending, but in the end, the products that meet the same API rating are identical from a performance specification.

There's nothing wrong with running the same motor oil. But don't wig-out if you find your mechanic used Rotella instead of Delo (or vice versa).

I think many people over-think this topic. Run a quality oil from a reputable company. Follow the recommended guidelines. Your engine will be happy and last a long time.

Peter
 
Portage_Bay said:
Call ahead, the Bellingham store doesn't have everything but they get a truck from the Seattle store several times a week.
Click to expand...

Most times when I go into the Seattle store I am told that they can get what I need from the Bellingham store in a couple of days. Something is "fishy." I still like there service and prices.
 
Peter,
I do my own oil but if I had someone to do it and saw them putting in multiple brands of oil in my engine he’d never touch my engine again.

The engine would be fine but ....
 
Nomad Willy said:
Peter,
I do my own oil but if I had someone to do it and saw them putting in multiple brands of oil in my engine he’d never touch my engine again.

The engine would be fine but ....
Click to expand...
I didn't mean mix and match brands in the same oil change. Would be fine, but sounds like lazy work. I agree with you.
 
mvweebles said:
I had the good fortune of working for the research group in BP for a while - Castrol Lubricants to be a bit more specific. I'm not a scientist, but I work in new product development on the commercial side - intellectual property rights, etc.

Motor Oil has come a long, long way since the 1950s. The additives of today didn't exist back then. In fact, many of the additives of today didn't exist 20 years ago. If you watch the Project Farm video I posted earlier in this thread, he compares a 70 year old can of Quaker State motor oil to modern oil, with an oil analysis too. Old oil was truly sludgy stuff, so much so that some old engines used to have oil slingers to catch the debris and needed to be manually removed, a non-trivial job.

Modern additives all come from just a couple chemical companies and they are used by all the refineries. The API "Wheel" on each container gives you the specification they adhere to. Sounds like DD have a special API rating on ash. It's a good example of reading the manual and understanding the requirements. That said, DD is ancient technology - the oil today is so much better. I don't know crap about DDs except what I read - sounds like Delo 100 is a good oil so for that engine. But I wouldn't lose any sleep of I ran 400 - compared to what DDs ran most of their life, it's a great oil

Each refinery has closely guarded processes for blending, but in the end, the products that meet the same API rating are identical from a performance specification.

There's nothing wrong with running the same motor oil. But don't wig-out if you find your mechanic used Rotella instead of Delo (or vice versa).

I think many people over-think this topic. Run a quality oil from a reputable company. Follow the recommended guidelines. Your engine will be happy and last a long time.

Peter
Click to expand...
Like the quoted post above I worked in the lubricants industry for 36 years. I worked both for a major oil company and an additive supplier. There are 4 major additive suppliers that supply essentially all lubricant suppliers. In order of size: Lubrizol Corp (owned by Berkshire Hathaway), Infineum (JV of Shell and Exxon), Chevron Oronite (obviously owned by Chevron), and Afton corp (grew out of the old Ethyl Petroleum additives). Despite ownership of the AdCos oil marketers use additives from all the suppliers.

In any case I did work in the technology area and in fact managed product development both in Europe then globally for engine oils. I've actually formulated oils in the past (before I became overhead, i.e. management). My basic advise is to buy a good quality oil of the correct viscosity meeting the performance requirements for your engine. I recommend using major brands (Chevron/Shell/Castrol/Total/ExxonMobil etc) Personally I never buy 'boutique' brands. Those companies are just marketers, ask them how much they spend on R&D and you'll get a 'story' about racing or other nonsense, but they wouldn't know a dispersant from a detergent.

Most of engines on boats are relatively old compared to over the road trucks.
API/ACEA/OEM requirements far exceed what was required when they were made. Oil formulations are complex chemical mixtures these days. Because of this I don't recommend mixing brands if you can avoid it. 5qt of Chevron Delo 400 API CK-4 plus 2Q of Shell Rotella T API CK-4 = API nothing. It won't cause harm but it will no longer be 'qualified'. Keep in mind that qualification cost, most likely paid by the additive supplier, is anywhere from $2-10MM to complete. Yes MM is millions of dollars and that's just for the qualification testing, not the R&D that backs it up (that is in the hundreds of millions of dollars every year). By the same token, NEVER add a supplemental additive. Again your Rotella T API CK-4 plus a pint of Jacks Pixie Dust = API Nothing. The very best you can hope for from a supplemental lube additive is that it does no harm. I have never seen these marketers run the full set of qualification tests to show the impact of their 'juice'..

As to changing brands, I do not see any technical reason that this would cause a problem. In fact the chemistry of the major products is more similar than it is different. Almost all base oils are now hydrocracked (called Group II and III) and again are more similar than different. Many of the stories you hear about changing brands and horrible things happen date back many many years and aren't relevant to modern oils. What I would not recommend is mixing different viscosities of the same brand. For example an SAE 30 and SAE 15W-40 of the same brand can have vastly different formulations. Simply put, single grade oils can not meet modern performance requirements so they're not formulated to do so.

As to what I use in my Cats? Delo 400LE 15W-40. Why? First I'm quite familiar with exactly what is in the formulation but more to the point it is widely available in my area. Do I run synthetics? No, it would offer no benefit unless I'm in Alaska (true synthetics with PAO base oil have better extreme low temperature flow properties, as in -40F type temps).
 
What a relief, some "science." I guess that pleases me because it agrees with me, or I agree with...never mind.

Anchors and varnish and oils, oh my.
 
+1
mvweebles said:
I had the good fortune of working for the research group in BP for a while - Castrol Lubricants to be a bit more specific. I'm not a scientist, but I work in new product development on the commercial side - intellectual property rights, etc.

Motor Oil has come a long, long way since the 1950s. The additives of today didn't exist back then. In fact, many of the additives of today didn't exist 20 years ago. If you watch the Project Farm video I posted earlier in this thread, he compares a 70 year old can of Quaker State motor oil to modern oil, with an oil analysis too. Old oil was truly sludgy stuff, so much so that some old engines used to have oil slingers to catch the debris and needed to be manually removed, a non-trivial job.

Modern additives all come from just a couple chemical companies and they are used by all the refineries. The API "Wheel" on each container gives you the specification they adhere to. Sounds like DD have a special API rating on ash. It's a good example of reading the manual and understanding the requirements. That said, DD is ancient technology - the oil today is so much better. I don't know crap about DDs except what I read - sounds like Delo 100 is a good oil so for that engine. But I wouldn't lose any sleep of I ran 400 - compared to what DDs ran most of their life, it's a great oil

Each refinery has closely guarded processes for blending, but in the end, the products that meet the same API rating are identical from a performance specification.

There's nothing wrong with running the same motor oil. But don't wig-out if you find your mechanic used Rotella instead of Delo (or vice versa).

I think many people over-think this topic. Run a quality oil from a reputable company. Follow the recommended guidelines. Your engine will be happy and last a long time.

Peter
Click to expand...
 
We have Lehman engines.

Bob Smith spoke only of Rotella which is available at Walmart. Our engines take 19qt each.

Bob said to stick with 30W which became difficult to purchase so I went to 10-40W.

When we bought our boat there were less than 500hrs on each engine, we have an '86.

Around 600hrs I queried a few 'experts' contemplating a change and after no disastrous reports, I switched to Rotella Blended 10-40W. I figured if the over-the-road people can use a blended synthetic, I could too. I figured the increase in lubricity and easier starts wouldn't hurt the engines

We are just over 1300hrs, while on the Loop and think that after long layups for winter and how a trawler is generally used I can report satisfactory service and great engine reports on use.

Any specific questions, let me know.
 
30w Delo is widely available.

And if you called Bob he’d say Delo is as good as Rotella. I think it’s about 50/50 here on TF and east and west coast may have something to do w it.

The FL recommends straight 30w from 30 to 90 degrees according to what Soo Valley posted.
I’ve run my engine at about 0 degrees using 30w. Ran just the same.
 
Last edited:
Slowmo said:
Like the quoted post above I worked in the lubricants industry for 36 years. I worked both for a major oil company and an additive supplier. There are 4 major additive suppliers that supply essentially all lubricant suppliers. In order of size: Lubrizol Corp (owned by Berkshire Hathaway), Infineum (JV of Shell and Exxon), Chevron Oronite (obviously owned by Chevron), and Afton corp (grew out of the old Ethyl Petroleum additives). Despite ownership of the AdCos oil marketers use additives from all the suppliers.

In any case I did work in the technology area and in fact managed product development both in Europe then globally for engine oils. I've actually formulated oils in the past (before I became overhead, i.e. management). My basic advise is to buy a good quality oil of the correct viscosity meeting the performance requirements for your engine. I recommend using major brands (Chevron/Shell/Castrol/Total/ExxonMobil etc) Personally I never buy 'boutique' brands. Those companies are just marketers, ask them how much they spend on R&D and you'll get a 'story' about racing or other nonsense, but they wouldn't know a dispersant from a detergent.

Most of engines on boats are relatively old compared to over the road trucks.
API/ACEA/OEM requirements far exceed what was required when they were made. Oil formulations are complex chemical mixtures these days. Because of this I don't recommend mixing brands if you can avoid it. 5qt of Chevron Delo 400 API CK-4 plus 2Q of Shell Rotella T API CK-4 = API nothing. It won't cause harm but it will no longer be 'qualified'. Keep in mind that qualification cost, most likely paid by the additive supplier, is anywhere from $2-10MM to complete. Yes MM is millions of dollars and that's just for the qualification testing, not the R&D that backs it up (that is in the hundreds of millions of dollars every year). By the same token, NEVER add a supplemental additive. Again your Rotella T API CK-4 plus a pint of Jacks Pixie Dust = API Nothing. The very best you can hope for from a supplemental lube additive is that it does no harm. I have never seen these marketers run the full set of qualification tests to show the impact of their 'juice'..

As to changing brands, I do not see any technical reason that this would cause a problem. In fact the chemistry of the major products is more similar than it is different. Almost all base oils are now hydrocracked (called Group II and III) and again are more similar than different. Many of the stories you hear about changing brands and horrible things happen date back many many years and aren't relevant to modern oils. What I would not recommend is mixing different viscosities of the same brand. For example an SAE 30 and SAE 15W-40 of the same brand can have vastly different formulations. Simply put, single grade oils can not meet modern performance requirements so they're not formulated to do so.

As to what I use in my Cats? Delo 400LE 15W-40. Why? First I'm quite familiar with exactly what is in the formulation but more to the point it is widely available in my area. Do I run synthetics? No, it would offer no benefit unless I'm in Alaska (true synthetics with PAO base oil have better extreme low temperature flow properties, as in -40F type temps).
Click to expand...

Thanks slowmo for adding some practical science behind making an educated decision. Its rare you hear of an engine failing from poor lubrication these days. The other big contributor is when to change your oil which is highly affected by oil age, hours run and amount of fuel used.
 
Thin oil is needed in winter to assist starting , as the engine needs to spin rapidly enough for the compression to ignite the fuel.

Once an engine is operating and warm, the viscosity mostly effects the oil consumption.
 
Nice post Slomo - thanks!
Nick
(Subsea Engineer in offshore oil industry)
 
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