Alternative for 5200/4300

[BruceK]

There are other brands of polyurethane sealant/adhesive than Sikaflex, I`ve used Parfix, works fine, but that only helps Aussies.
Some products only work on certain surfaces,maybe it needed some degree of absorption into the surface which" oily" starboard doesn`t allow. What does the manufacturer say?

[Moonfish]

I don't know why the Rescue Bond didn't cure for you, DVD. I used it when I rebed the deck prism on our foredeck last October. This was the first winter in 5 years that the damn thing hasn't leaked (and I had rebed it before with Dolphinite my old "go to" product). I won't say the Dolphinite failed necessarily, as it's more likely my rebedding job failed. But the Rescue Bond was much easier to use and has not leaked a single drop during what has been a very wet winter here in WA.

[sdowney717]

Originally Posted by Tony Athens

I do not know if this helps, but for well over 20 years, we have been using moisture cured polyurethane sealants from TREMCO and will never look back.. I learned the science behind them & avoided all the "marine hype" and associated "marine costs" about what they are all about way back.. As to 3M 5200 & 4200, great products if you want to pay 4+X the cost for the same or better product without the word "MARINE" as part of the marketing scheme..

But, then again we use 100's of tubes per year so to average "Joe boater", maybe that does not matter.. .


Tony

I am the same way of thinking, for example Loctite PL S30, $5 for 10 oz cartridge.
I use it for all sorts of things like sealing windows. I even use it underwater for through hulls, etc... It is like 4200.
I have also mixed this at 30% with 1/32 inch fiberglass milled fibers. Really strengthens the rubber.

$4.23 at Lowes
https://www.lowes.com/pd/LOCTITE-Pl-...c-957f2fadf816

$5.88 at HDepot, I need to goto Lowes for this.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Loctite-P...5273/203163733

[Seevee]

Originally Posted by Tony Athens

I do not know if this helps, but for well over 20 years, we have been using moisture cured polyurethane sealants from TREMCO and will never look back.. I learned the science behind them & avoided all the "marine hype" and associated "marine costs" about what they are all about way back.. As to 3M 5200 & 4200, great products if you want to pay 4+X the cost for the same or better product without the word "MARINE" as part of the marketing scheme..

But, then again we use 100's of tubes per year so to average "Joe boater", maybe that does not matter.. .


Tony

Tony,

What does TREMCO make that is a flexible epoxy sealant that would have the following characterists:
Reasonable fast work time: 30 min to harden, and 8 to 24 hours to fully cure.
Sand and paintable (or able to add pigment to it)
Hardens to no more that a Shore D hardness
Flexible (25% elongation or more)
Waterproof and salt water resistant
Adhere to different substrates, wood, plastic, aluminum, metal ......
Shelf life of at least two years.

A lot like 5200, but quicker to harden, and easy to paint and may look pretty..... and a lot cheaper. Not a 5200 replacement and not for thru hulls or real critical repairs.

Currently using the West Systems GFlex G655 which I've been vary happy with. Just looking for alternatives.


For permanent repairs on hull parts, fairings, trim, and water toys like kayaks, windsurfers and dinghies.

[Seevee]

Originally Posted by WesK

Many folks will argue that 5200 is a poor choice for thru hulls because it is permanent and you may have to remove them at some point. 4200 may be a better choice.

A thru hull will have a nut on the inside to keep it from falling out. Adhesion is not important but sealing is.

WesK,

True, but for something like a thru hull, I'd prefer the security of 5200 over 4200 and put up with the removal difficulty, if needed. Just removed one a few months ago and it was not impossible, but, yes more work.

4200 is a fine product and works pretty well as a sealant.

[dvd]

"...has not leaked a single drop during what has been a very wet winter here in WA..."

Maybe because Rescue Bond is still liquid in the middle?

Don't know -- will probably do a few "test runs" with it in my garage over the next week or so. I do like the "reusability" of the cartridge, but the documentation on directions of use and cure times is pretty weak. It claims to stick to anything, even polyethylene plastics, and I sanded, flamed & solvent-washed the Starboard, but that really wan't the issue. It just never cured...

dvd

[Eddieandgail]

I have a 12 year old PVC inflatable that one of the tubes completely separated from the rubber curved arm that holds it to the transom. I contacted manufacturer, Harbor Products, who weren't sure of using it on pvc fabric but please send pics and result of project
I removed straps and weights after 24 hours and it was not the least bit dry and after 48 hours still easily peeled away. Came back a week later and appears the portion I didn't mess with seemed to cure so I redid top portion and still tacky 48 hours later. Let y'all know next week if it ever set up

[FF]

"There aren't many people using water based paints on their boats, so I guess if your going to paint afterwards you will need to use something different."

Some fine products are water based.

Rustoleum aluminum primer works very well on galvanized metal ,as well as aluminum and can be top coated with oil based paint in 24 hours. Usually galvanized is really hard to get paint to stick to.

Folks with a PH and no fly bridge can use a water based product made for house trailers , loaded with reflective titanium particles to keep overhead temperature very close to ambient temp in shade ,,, cooler than simple white paint.

Too soft for deck paint that gets walked on , but also seals leaks with two or more coats.

[BrianSmith]

Originally Posted by Tony Athens

I do not know if this helps, but for well over 20 years, we have been using moisture cured polyurethane sealants from TREMCO and will never look back.. I learned the science behind them & avoided all the "marine hype" and associated "marine costs" about what they are all about way back.. As to 3M 5200 & 4200, great products if you want to pay 4+X the cost for the same or better product without the word "MARINE" as part of the marketing scheme..

But, then again we use 100's of tubes per year so to average "Joe boater", maybe that does not matter.. .


Tony

Tony, I looked at their website, and don't see any indication that their products are to be used in the saltwater environment. (Which doesn't mean that they won't work well, just that they don't claim that they do.) Is your experience with their products in saltwater, or fresh? I can see it making a huge difference. Thanks.

[Tony Athens]

Brain,

Like many products, not every market is gone after by the manufacturer. You could take the product, repackage and put "marine" all over it, do a few tests and triple the $$..It's that easy.. That does not make it any better, only way more expensive.. 3M 5200 is a great product, but the cost is beyond crazy, and in actual use, offers nothing better than than many other 1/4 or less priced polyurethanes.

My testing of various moisture cured polyurethanes and hybrid silicone's (GE Ultraglaze 4000 for one) over the past 25+ yrs and proved that to me beyond any doubt... Maybe 95% of the work we preform and methods we use to accomplish what we do has never been "certified" for marine use..ABYC has there place , but there is way more to a product than that. It's all about long term field testing in my book, but also realizing that there is always room for improvement..


Tony

[FF]

Frequently "thru hulls" are used with sea cocks.

The solidly bolted sea cock keeps the water out of the boat , the thru hull perhaps keeps the hull laminate dry.

On inspected vessels the thru hull may be pulled for inspection at times , so some sort of glue as a sealer serves NO purpose , except to make the task harder.

Taking a look is a great idea , USCG requirement or not , especially after 20-45 years.

[Stout]

Hi Tony, which of Tremco's moisture cured polyurethane sealants do you use, the Vulkem 116 or 45SSL?

[BrianSmith]

Originally Posted by Tony Athens

Brain,

Like many products, not every market is gone after by the manufacturer. You could take the product, repackage and put "marine" all over it, do a few tests and triple the $$..It's that easy.. That does not make it any better, only way more expensive.. 3M 5200 is a great product, but the cost is beyond crazy, and in actual use, offers nothing better than than many other 1/4 or less priced polyurethanes.

My testing of various moisture cured polyurethanes and hybrid silicone's (GE Ultraglaze 4000 for one) over the past 25+ yrs and proved that to me beyond any doubt... Maybe 95% of the work we preform and methods we use to accomplish what we do has never been "certified" for marine use..ABYC has there place , but there is way more to a product than that. It's all about long term field testing in my book, but also realizing that there is always room for improvement..


Tony

Tony,

That's exactly why I asked you if YOUR experience with the product is in salt or fresh. I'm assuming it's probably in salt, or maybe both - but you know what they say about assuming.