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Old 09-26-2017, 07:46 PM   #101
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Well, let's do a Beneteau Swift Trawler 44 then. Here are some basics.

LOA 45'6"
Hull 39'11"
Beam 13'11"
Light Displacement 23,957
.
Without cheating I would have set personal limits at 10 people total, maximum of 4 on flybridge when underway, 6 allowed when docked.

CE is B12/C14. So, says 14 inland, 12 offshore. I would never want 14 people aboard a 40' boat.

The Australian formula turns out to be 15 passengers, so maximum of 3 or 4 on flybridge as I don't know what they do with fractional people.

I'd perhaps give in a bit and go to 12 overall, but my limit of 4 on flybridge when underway, 6 when docked, stays.
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:03 PM   #102
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This thread has gotten way too complicated. Put as many people on the bridge as you like as long as as you put an equal number in the engine room.
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:18 PM   #103
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This poster is impressed!!! You are not a 'voyager' by chance (Pun intended)

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Statistical encyclopedia couple?!?! They seem to now the stats throughout many levels of life.
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:26 PM   #104
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Statistical encyclopedia couple?!?! They seem to now the stats throughout many levels of life.
Wifey B: Hubby corrupted me. We like to research things. He does boats and things and I do oddball things like weights of models and other health kinds of things. If we don't know it, we know where to find it. The model weights I had from trying to convince some young girls they did not need to lose weight.

Living in Paradise, you have to convince young girls of:

1-Don't get carried away and do stupid things to get skinny.
2-Don't tan yourself until you have hide instead of skin and risk future problems.
3-Don't get boob jobs.

We're very much in a bikini zone and every young girl concerned with how she looks in one.
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:33 PM   #105
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Well, let's do a Beneteau Swift Trawler 44 then. Here are some basics.



LOA 45'6"

Hull 39'11"

Beam 13'11"

Light Displacement 23,957



Motorboat Swift Trawler 44 - Powerboat Beneteau USA



Scroll down and click on flybridge to get a good look at it.


Sorry, what I meant was (hypothetically) get our gut feelings based on actually operating the boats under differing load conditions and see how what we experienced compares to the regulatory stability criteria. For instance, the offset load test for that Beneteau probably stipulates that with the entire crew crowded to one side in it's worst-case condition, the heel angle should not exceed (I'm making this number up; I forget the formula) maybe 15 degrees. I'm guessing most of us would absolutely freak out if our passengers went to one side to watch the bikini races and the boat heeled over by 10 degrees. Spooky and unsafe may be entirely different things.

That said, I'd much rather be aboard with this very conservative crowd than the clowns who invite 30 of their closest to head out to sea on that SeaRay (sorry...) that hasn't been used since last Memorial Day.

Well, except that guy may have more supermodels aboard.
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:52 PM   #106
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Wifey B: And now you'll have to correct Flywright too. Bunch of greedy men want 7, when they can't even handle 3.


Likely not, but I'll not admit it until given the chance to be proven wrong.
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:13 PM   #107
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Wifey B: Hubby corrupted me. We like to research things. He does boats and things and I do oddball things like weights of models and other health kinds of things. If we don't know it, we know where to find it. The model weights I had from trying to convince some young girls they did not need to lose weight.

Living in Paradise, you have to convince young girls of:

1-Don't get carried away and do stupid things to get skinny.
2-Don't tan yourself until you have hide instead of skin and risk future problems.
3-Don't get boob jobs.

We're very much in a bikini zone and every young girl concerned with how she looks in one.
Within coming weeks, depending on success from current inroads we've opened... I may PM you to see if you can or know how to locate some "stats" my associates and I need to collect. Thanks for telling me/TF a small bit of what you like to "play with"; i.e. staying active enjoyably accomplishing.
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Old 09-27-2017, 08:29 AM   #108
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This is an important question and the 2012 Silverton incident brings it home in a tragic way. When studying for captains exam I came across a CG-4006 worksheet provided by The USCG for a simplified stability test procedure. Simplified may be an overstatement but you can decide after reading the test procedure.

It may have been said but if your plan for stability is to keep passengers equally disbursed around the boat remember that plan falls apart when something very interesting happens on the other side causing a rush to see.

Anecdotally, there are a lot of small builders on the coast of NC turning out quality boats. Many of these boats are built without plans using what they refer to as the "rack of the eye" method. One old timer indicated that he measured flybridge capacity by placing water barrels on the edge of the FB till the boat listed 14 degrees then the weight of the water determined capacity. No blue barrels? Use a 200 gallon rectangular kiddy pool from Amazon for about $20 and digital gallon counter on the hose to determine how much water is in the pool. I have not vetted this method so perhaps others will respond with their comments.

Good thread!

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Old 09-27-2017, 10:10 AM   #109
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Blue barrels and water are great tools for doing trim tests!!
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:22 AM   #110
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Blue barrels and water are great tools for doing trim tests!!
Before installing some additional equipment in our Sunseeker we used various forms of weights to mimic the equipment we were dealing with and more for people and ran the boat. That included the RIB on the swim platform, the second generator, additional freezers, etc. All results recorded. Now, amazingly enough () when the real equipment was installed, it performed exactly as we were expecting. This was all after having the factory NA opinion. Just double and triple checking.

Good idea sometimes or you end up like the Baden. It is for sale now by the salvage company. Starting bid $500k.
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Old 09-27-2017, 04:50 PM   #111
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This is an important question and the 2012 Silverton incident brings it home in a tragic way. When studying for captains exam I came across a CG-4006 worksheet provided by The USCG for a simplified stability test procedure. Simplified may be an overstatement but you can decide after reading the test procedure.

Don

Excellent reference, Don - I forgot how straightforward the USCG form is compared to wading thru the ISO / CE standard.

For anyone who can afford to own one of these boats that shouldn't be an onerous amount of math, and the procedure will give you actual information about your boat. A more elaborate, well-articulated, and correct version of what I meant when I said 'you can try it in the slip.'

And, it's a good excuse to spend time fiddling around on the boat rather than the internet...says the guy responding on an Internet forum that's already been pretty well beaten down.
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Old 09-27-2017, 05:55 PM   #112
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Some boaters may use the flybridge as an "attic." Suggest such storage doesn't exceed four typical male boaters.
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Old 09-27-2017, 08:47 PM   #113
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Some boaters may use the flybridge as an "attic." Suggest such storage doesn't exceed four typical male boaters.
Excellent point Mark.
Mine, eg, has two propane tanks, so 80 lb when full, 8 milk boxes full of necessary stuff, from old paint cans to the polisher I bought years ago and have never used.
Then there are the seat lockers; 2 downriggers, a tackle box, 2 spools of 500 ft of prawn trap line, assorted spare lines of various sizes, for towing, mooring, winching, etc, buckets, fishing nets, a pile of lifejackets, a bag of Laser gear, centerboard, rudder, tiller.
Then the stuff that gets stored out in the open; 4 prawn traps, big buckets, jerry cans of gas, a boathook,

Add the weight of all of this stuff and it will surely amount to more than a couple of typical Canadian males.

Good that my boat weighs 44,000 lb, so I can still invite a couple of friends up onto the FB.
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:00 PM   #114
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Our resident naval architect, Tad Roberts, did a quick stability analysis on a 43-foot Californian carrying a Whaler 110 aloft with an assumed weight of 700 lbs. I recognize this is a static load, not people moving around to watch planes or whales. But it might give some basis for comparison.

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Whaler 110 Sport, too heavy?
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:29 PM   #115
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Our resident naval architect, Tad Roberts, did a quick stability analysis on a 43-foot Californian carrying a Whaler 110 aloft with an assumed weight of 700 lbs. I recognize this is a static load, not people moving around to watch planes or whales. But it might give some basis for comparison.

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Whaler 110 Sport, too heavy?
Great information Angus. I missed Tad's posting last year on subject. Missing from the calculations is the stuff that comes crashing to the low side as heel angle increases. Somewhere around 50 degrees the people and gear cascade begins I've been told.
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Old 09-28-2017, 08:47 PM   #116
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Thank you for your post as it is an important one.The SS Eastland Tragedy killed more than the Titanic. She rolled over at the dock.

Be it a Southbound rounding of Cape Hatteras doubting the stability of a 132' TriDeck or the Gulf of Tehuantepec railing a 98' Motor yacht, one gets to thinking about metacentric height (GM) and how to improve it to increase initial stability against overturning.

On Carpe Diem, Monk 38, I have lowered the battery bank (while increasing number of automatic bilge pumps to 4) and removed the crane and chocks designed to carry the dingy aloft on the boat deck and will now carry the tender on a stern platform. This further improves stability already proven stability on multiple Gulf Stream crossings and allow for faster and safer deployment of the tender in an emergency.
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Old 09-29-2017, 06:06 AM   #117
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Great information Angus. I missed Tad's posting last year on subject. Missing from the calculations is the stuff that comes crashing to the low side as heel angle increases. Somewhere around 50 degrees the people and gear cascade begins I've been told.
Heck, at 15 drgrees if the roll is snappy enough stuff starts to move around on many boats I think.

So if your boat and passengers arent ready for the rolls, even pretty common sized waves/wakes can shift weight. Though I dont think the average small vessel mimicks the hoollywod version of the coffee comercial scenario.

Last soring when I had to anchor in a 3 to 4 foot chop the was broadside to the current, anything that wasnt fixed or tied down moved. The microwave which is pretty snug back in a corner managed to launch and hit the fwd head door not much down from the galley counter height.that was just one of all the little things flying. We normally never are in conditions like that so I have gotten lazy....even bad wakes arent bad enough to launch stuff if I do anything to lessen their effect.

The good news, the boat snapeed back do rapidlyI know with all my stowage and mods to the flybridge, fuel tanks and battery stowage.....stability to something beyond 30 degrees is certain.

I already knew 3 to 4s on the beam were awful, now I just have to organize a better energency anchoring setup for similar conditions near lee shores....

PS....yes I can think of plenty.....just what, how to store and rig quickly, how to recover easily when the towboat/fix arrives, etc.....
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Old 09-29-2017, 11:22 AM   #118
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But on the upside that snappy roll tends to mean you have gobs of transverse stability, at least at those heel angles. Shape of your boat and other factors will determine whether that remains true as the angle increases.

It's when the roll slows down, and maybe goes a bit farther than you were expecting, that you need to get worried.
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Old 09-29-2017, 11:30 AM   #119
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Thanks, I know, the center of buoyancy because of hull shape is influencing the most in my situation.
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Old 09-30-2017, 10:00 PM   #120
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Without cheating I would have set personal limits at 10 people total, maximum of 4 on flybridge when underway, 6 allowed when docked.



CE is B12/C14. So, says 14 inland, 12 offshore. I would never want 14 people aboard a 40' boat.



The Australian formula turns out to be 15 passengers, so maximum of 3 or 4 on flybridge as I don't know what they do with fractional people.



I'd perhaps give in a bit and go to 12 overall, but my limit of 4 on flybridge when underway, 6 when docked, stays.


FWIW, as a Swift 44 owner I'd have no problem with 6 on the bridge underway, 8 when docked. For reference, there is actually seating for 8 (3 around the table, 3 on the opposite bench and 2 in the helm chairs.

That said, I'm wrestling with how many people I want on the boat for Fleet Week next week. I might take my son's friends out. There are 9 kids altogether, including muy son. They are 16 year olds and probably weigh on average 140 pounds.

Even though they are really good kids, I'd definitely want at least one more, maybe two adults to accompany me. So looking at 9 kids and 3 adults. I think that's doable without any safety concern, especially given we are in the Bay and it is typically mild in October (winds die down in the Bay). Just need to recheck how many life jackets I have on board.

I'd be okay with 6 or 7 on the bridge, especially if I instructed them not to all hang over one side!

To be honest I'm much more concerned with getting hit by some yahoo carving through all the boats as it gets crowded. After all, I'm the person who got hit by a sailboat under power while I was at anchor!

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...oat-31979.html
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