MS 2004 400 water tank

[Bay Retriever]

Here’s one for the Mainship brain trust....

In preparation for winterizing, I was able to completely drain the starboard water tank. However, the crossover that runs between the port and starboard water tanks doesn’t seem to allow the port tank to completely empty. Thus, I left about 5” of water in the starboard water tank over the winter. My boat was kept in the water on Mobjack Bay, so I only purged the fresh water lines rather than a full winterization.

I’m getting ready to fill up the tanks and wondering how and if it’s a good idea to somehow get the rest of the water out of the port side water tank before filling up with water. Any suggestions?

BTW, the Fly Bridge and cockpit fiberglass repairs are finished and came out great. The technicians at Severn Yacht Center did a fantastic job. I plan to post pictures on the old thread soon.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Im going to take a guess that the tank is at least 150 gallons. Fill it up with fresh, add a half cup of unscented bleach and you will be good to go.

Personally I don't drink from my water tanks which I treat with a half cup of bleach to keep the water fresh. I have tasted it when a quick pill needs washing down or tooth brushing rinse doesn't have bottled water handy. There is nothing wrong with it that I can tell.

Coffee, lemonade, drinking water and iced tea water is carried on board. I do use the tank water for dishes and boiling corn or pasta though.

You really should track down the crossover problem though, One side full and the other side empty could cause a list or handling problems.

pete

 

[Bay Retriever]

I have noticed that she lists to port consistently. So much so that I added a second drain to the Lazarette cockpit hatch.

 

[Bay Retriever]

Im going to take a guess that the tank is at least 150 gallons. Fill it up with fresh, add a half cup of unscented bleach and you will be good to go.

Personally I don't drink from my water tanks which I treat with a half cup of bleach to keep the water fresh. I have tasted it when a quick pill needs washing down or tooth brushing rinse doesn't have bottled water handy. There is nothing wrong with it that I can tell.

Coffee, lemonade, drinking water and iced tea water is carried on board. I do use the tank water for dishes and boiling corn or pasta though.

You really should track down the crossover problem though, One side full and the other side empty could cause a list or handling problems.

pete

Pete

Having a tough time trying to find unvented beach. Any suggestions?

T MacDonnell

 

[garmstro55]

Hi Tmac, I applaud your attention to detail on the winterizing of the tanks. I never thought to check to see if they are empty when I do mine. Personally, I don't use the tank water for drinking, only showering and dishes, so I don't feel there is an issue even if some of the water is left in the tank. As Pete said, you can add some bleach to clean the tanks, I have a Peggie Hall instruction sheet that I'll email to you if you need the details.
On my boat, curiously, both water tank hold-down brackets are not attached on the outboard side. Do yours look like this?


Since they are both like this, I have to think the guy at the factory that was supposed to do this was having a bad day. I have no way to get to the outboard side to fix this, but I haven't had and issues to-date.


Also looking forward to seeing the photos of the repairs.

 

[Bay Retriever]

Gary

Thanks to everyone, I have successfully treated the water with some bleach. Was able to fire up the heater/AC. One curious side problem - no hot water.

Hmmm. I made sure the breaker switches for fresh water and water heater are on. I even left the hot water breaker on all night thinking it might take a few hours to warm up the water. Perhaps there is another fuse somewhere??

I am open to suggestions??

 

[Pete Meisinger]

QUICK!! turn off the breaker!! Sorry couldn't resist, it's too late.

Your water heater is probably set up with a bypass to allow antifreeze to fill all the hot water lines and not require the five or ten gallons to fill the tank. It takes forever to flush that much antifreeze out of the tank. It only takes a gallon or less to flush just the lines.

So here is what you are looking at. Your water tank is probably empty because it is bypassed and drained. Turning on the power has burned out the elements. (They are easy to replace or you could run a continuity check on them to be certain.)

Find the "valving" or bypass hardware make sure everything is open. Also open your pressure temperature relief valve temporarily so that the tank does not become air locked as you fill it.When it is full, and only then, you can turn on the power. (You have already replaced the heating elements right? ) There is a small possibility that there is no bypass set up. The tank may have just been drained and left empty. When you turned on your pressure water pump you may have pumped a gallon or so into the tank, it then became airlocked and the result is the same, empty tank and burned out elements. Flip up the pressure temperature relief valve, you should hear water running and air hissing out.

Those little water heaters will have ice cold water up to temperature in five or ten minutes

pete

 

[Comodave]

We bought a 46’ north of Seattle a long time ago. I went into the engine room and heard a sizzling noise. Turned out to be the water heater that was empty. Turned off the power and the sizzling noise went away. I assumed that I would have to change the element since the boat had been that way for months, cooking the element. However when I filled the water tanks and heater it heated water just fine and was still working when I sold the boat 8 years later. It should have burned out but it didn’t.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Maybe 110 volt elements are tougher. I had a cabin with a 220 volt water heater. We emptied it every fall and filled it in the Spring, usually after burning up the elements because we turned all the power on when we first arrived for lights and water, etc. Guess we should have marked the water heater better.

pete

 

[Comodave]

Oh, I was amazed that it had not burned out. I think that it should have burned out.

 

[garmstro55]

Gary

Thanks to everyone, I have successfully treated the water with some bleach. Was able to fire up the heater/AC. One curious side problem - no hot water.

Hmmm. I made sure the breaker switches for fresh water and water heater are on. I even left the hot water breaker on all night thinking it might take a few hours to warm up the water. Perhaps there is another fuse somewhere??

I am open to suggestions??

What Pete said...my bet is the heater was winterized and bypassed. Hopefully the element didn't burn out.

 

[Bay Retriever]

Pete

Heading out to look at water heater tonight. Should be there around 6:30 EST. Will be checking into hot water heater problem. Not sure what I am looking for other than if the tank is empty or partially full.

Last December I had the all water tanks drained prior to winter. Didn’t use antifreeze as boat sat in water here in Virginia. The guy who helped me used air to blow out the water from the lines.

 

[Comodave]

Hi Tmac, I applaud your attention to detail on the winterizing of the tanks. I never thought to check to see if they are empty when I do mine. Personally, I don't use the tank water for drinking, only showering and dishes, so I don't feel there is an issue even if some of the water is left in the tank. As Pete said, you can add some bleach to clean the tanks, I have a Peggie Hall instruction sheet that I'll email to you if you need the details.
On my boat, curiously, both water tank hold-down brackets are not attached on the outboard side. Do yours look like this?


Since they are both like this, I have to think the guy at the factory that was supposed to do this was having a bad day. I have no way to get to the outboard side to fix this, but I haven't had and issues to-date.


Also looking forward to seeing the photos of the repairs.

Those are nice looking tie downs, too bad they are not secured. Have you thought about putting a spacer between the top of the tank and the underside of the deck? It would need some chaffing gear on top of the tank so it would not rub thru the tank. I would be concerned about the tanks shifting in heavy seas. Or just get someone who is 6’ tall and weighs about 60 pounds to secure the straps on the outboard side...

 

[Comodave]

Pete

Heading out to look at water heater tonight. Should be there around 6:30 EST. Will be checking into hot water heater problem. Not sure what I am looking for other than if the tank is empty or partially full.

Last December I had the all water tanks drained prior to winter. Didn’t use antifreeze as boat sat in water here in Virginia. The guy who helped me used air to blow out the water from the lines.

The winterization kit on the water heater should be 2 valves with a bypass line between the valves. That way you can shutoff water in and out of the heater and let the antifreeze bypass the heater. Then drain the heater tank and it won’t freeze.

 

[Bay Retriever]

The winterization kit on the water heater should be 2 valves with a bypass line between the valves. That way you can shutoff water in and out of the heater and let the antifreeze bypass the heater. Then drain the heater tank and it won’t freeze.

Thanks. Last night I turned the power off and then took the cover off the Atwood Water Heater model EHM6-220 and found the reset button. I tried pushing the round button several times. It did not seem to do anything. No clicking noise to let you know it had reset.

I then turned the power back on at the breaker box and let it sit to see if the water would warm. Nothing happened. Even ran the hot water from the tap. Only cold water came out.

So what is the next step?

 

[Comodave]

Did you see valves on the inlet and outlet hoses to the water heater? A couple of things could cause no hot water. 1. In bypass mode. 2. The heating element could be burned out. 3. No power to the heater. 4. Bad thermostat in the heater. Do you know how to check voltage? If so check the wires at the heater and see if there is voltage present. Make sure it isn’t in bypass mode. Replace the element. Other than those things I am at a loss. Good luck.

 

[garmstro55]

What Dave said...the heater is 220V so set the meter to the right scale. Carefully check to see if you have voltage to the heater element that is behind the cover panel. If you do, that's probably good news because the heater elements are probably burned out and replacements shouldn't be too difficult or expensive.

If no voltage, then you need to figure out why, which involves chasing down the problem with the wiring someplace between the circuit panel and the heater.

Out of curiosity, does the AC unit work? It is 220V as well so if both are out it could mean a problem with your power supply or cable. I assume you have a single 50 Amp cable plugged into a single 50 Amp pedestal.

If you have a splitter and are plugged into two 30 Amp pedestals, there may be more going on than meets the eye. This is getting out of my area of expertise, but I know, in my marina, that if you are using a spltter into two 30 Amp receptacles, the two plugs cannot be on the same side of the pedestal. Something about them not being in phase with each other. Hopefully another TF member can explain better.

This picture is from my heater, you probably have the same thing.

 

[Bay Retriever]

Gary

My heater is the same as yours.
Here is the picture.


Later today I will be at the boat and test the power. I could use some guidance locating which terminals to test on the heater.

BTW, I successfully ran the A/C and Heater the other day.

 

[garmstro55]

There should be only two wires to each element, or there may be just one element, I haven't dug into that realm yet, knocking on wood. Just set the meter to at least 240V and, with the panel switch on (energized), just carefully measure across the two terminal connections, one on the red wire and one on the black. Don't touch anything else but the terminals. You can do this with the wires still connected but energized.

If you have voltage, and you feel ambitious, you can turn off the power and test the element. When I disconnect things on a boat, I usually turn off the circuit and also turn off the power at the pedestal to be safe. When you are sure there is not power to the heater, disconnect one of the wires from the element. Then, with your meter set on resistance or ohms, measure across the element terminals. You should get some resistance on the ohmmeter. In other words, if shows infinite resistance you have a broken or burned out element. If you have some resistance, it is likely good. It shouldn't show zero ohms, that means there is no resistance in the circuit and resistance is what makes the elements heat up.

That wire hanging out with the red and black showing has me a bit concerned. There should be some sort of chafe protection and strain relief there. Did you remove the corrugated wireway or has it been like that? If the wires have chafed through that could be your problem. Also, the metal case of the heater could be energized making it dangerous to touch. Please be careful and have someone else standing by in case you get zapped, or if you feel like it is beyond your expertise, better to get a professional on the case. Good luck.

 

[Comodave]

If you are working on the electrical system and you have an inverter, make sure the inverter is off also. Not just the power at the dock pedestal is off.

 

[Bay Retriever]

Checked the power to both red and black pairs. 245 V to both. What’s next?

Here is a link to the schematic for the heater.

http://pdfstream.manualsonline.com/e/e657b1a9-9f4b-4a70-8343-c2028640087c.pdf

Here are some pictures of my heater. only one element shown in schematic.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Ok everyone, take a look at the picture in post 18. What is that bottom spigot?

I stay with my original advice. make sure there is water in the tank, then check the electrical.

pete

 

[Bay Retriever]

Ok everyone, take a look at the picture in post 18. What is that bottom spigot?



I stay with my original advice. make sure there is water in the tank, then check the electrical.



pete

Pete

The schematic shows that the water heater can be hooked up to the engine by using two ports. (I think you are seeing only one in the picture). My boat was never plumbed for using the engine to heat the hot water tank. Good idea and something I will consider, especially after fixing the problem at hand.

Will test the element like Gary suggested later today. However, after testing the element as Gary suggested, if I find no resistance, and need to remove/replace the element, are there any additional steps such as draining the water from the hot water tank that I would need to take? Or does the element not directly sit in water, perhaps in a separate sleeve so there is no water to drain?

 

[garmstro55]

Nice pictures, it's not easy working in that space.

I would say that if you are sure there's water in the tank, you have bad elements. Check the resistance to be certain.

You need to shut off the water supply and drain to at least the level of the elements, as they do sit in the water. Hopefully you can find a part number on it or take the old part to a good chandlery to get a replacement.

 

[Bay Retriever]

Nice pictures, it's not easy working in that space.

I would say that if you are sure there's water in the tank, you have bad elements. Check the resistance to be certain.

You need to shut off the water supply and drain to at least the level of the elements, as they do sit in the water. Hopefully you can find a part number on it or take the old part to a good chandlery to get a replacement.

Sailors,

Last night, we confirmed that the Heating Element is bad. Will get part ordered. Any suggestions for sources? I sent an email to Atwood’s successor parent, Dometica inquiring for a replace element and gasket and insulator shield.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Drain the tank. The element sits directly in the water, your tankful drain when you remove the element but that route will get the insulation saturated. Drain it from the bottom.

Once you get the element out you should be able to buy a replacement at any hardware store.

You burned out the element because you turned it on before the tank was full. See my post on how to fill the tank.

Unless you found out why the tank did not fill, go back to square one and locate and reverse the bypass.

Most water heaters have a drain at or near the bottom. Open it. If there is no drain remove the "IN" pipe or tube which is at the lower section of the tank.

You seem to be making this more difficult than it has to be. Would you consider yourself to be "homeowner handy" if so this is really a small job.

pete

 

[Bay Retriever]

Pete

Thanks for all the step by step advice. I am 6’3” and not so flexible, so I can only tolerate so much cramping in that small little space. Since yesterday, I hired a marine technician who is going to install the new element when I’ve got the parts. Will check with local stores today. Did not remove the element last night thinking that can still use the water onboard while waiting for the parts.

T Mac