Similar Ships to LRC 58

[cardude01]

I like it! Doesn’t have AC so that would need to be installed. Can’t tell if engine access is any good.

6.42’ draft is pretty deep for the east coast IMO.

Does $240k seem high for an older boat?

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Does $240k seem high for an older boat?

Lol. Not from where I’m sitting, as a buyer. Similarly-sized and somewhat capable power yachts from the mid to late-eighties are going from top of $100’s but to 300’s and up, and most aren’t aluminum construction. Nicer examples of the Californian 55 and even larger Bayliners are selling in the low to mid 200’s and they aren’t even in the class (in more ways than one) of this Brewer. KKs from the mid eighties to early nineties in lengths higher than the 42 - if any were, you know, actually for sale right now - would bring $300’s I think.

 

[rslifkin]

Does $240k seem high for an older boat?

For something like this, I'd say probably not. This isn't one of the older boats where there are a million to choose from as well as newer alternatives at pretty much any price point. This is a case where you have a pretty limited selection of older boats fit for the same purpose and an equally small selection of more expensive newer boats.

 

[CruiserhHeart]

Snapdragon:



Your post was eloquent and most appreciated. My research made me aware of the complications regarding the active stabilizers, but much appreciate your account.

In regards to the sailboat: A draft of 6' is an absolute "No-Go" for us, so is a full keel. The shallower the draft the better. Our Ovni with its lifting rudder and centerboard changed our cruising lives for the better immensely and I am not going back. Also, I do not want a sailboat or a boat without active stabilizers.



In the last couple weeks I have been spending many hours researching powercats. They are yet another slippery slope requiring knowledge of their respective forms and styles to understand what you are getting. Boats like Darkside's new build are the type I have been exploring.


Understanding what you are getting is exactly what (I think) DAN-C and Hippocampus were trying to get across. You get what you pay for (always) and you have to understand the design, its features and its intentions if you are going to understand what you are buying. Its no one size fits all.



CFR: those are great boats no doubt, and I have to admit I have come to realize the world as a whole is moving towards aluminum boat construction, more and more factories are offering them. Which is great to my mind for many reasons- like you can recycle them for example. But while they are optimized for the speed I desire, they are not efficient.

 

[Hippocampus]

CH -well said.

 

[dannc]

...

In regards to the sailboat: A draft of 6' is an absolute "No-Go" for us, so is a full keel. The shallower the draft the better. Our Ovni with its lifting rudder and centerboard changed our cruising lives for the better immensely and I am not going back. Also, I do not want a sailboat or a boat without active stabilizers.

In the last couple weeks I have been spending many hours researching powercats. They are yet another slippery slope requiring knowledge of their respective forms and styles to understand what you are getting. Boats like Darkside's new build are the type I have been exploring.

...

Interesting that you had an Ovni with a centerboard. If we go the sail boat route a keel that lifts and allows the boat to dry out is a big requirement for us. For a power boat, we have been looking for the same ability and the LRC can dry out with the right features. I have spent, and still spend, quite a bit of time looking a marine charts and Google Earth at anchorages. Shallow draft just opens up soooooo many areas, and if the boat can dry out, it is even better.

The same can be said for air draft too...

Catamarans are interesting from a draft perspective but powercats I have seen just don't seem to have the range we want, have too much engine power and are designed to go faster than we want or need to go.

We don't want an active stabilized boat either, paravanes work, are cheap to build, cheap to maintain and are field repairable.

Later,
Dan

 

[cfr]

have a look at leen trimaran and there is a cat from thailand with same hull like domino comming

 

[long-cours.62]

The minimum draft

Snapdragon:




In regards to the sailboat: A draft of 6' is an absolute "No-Go" for us, so is a full keel. The shallower the draft the better. Our Ovni with its lifting rudder and centerboard changed our cruising lives for the better immensely and I am not going back. Also, I do not want a sailboat or a boat without active stabilizers.


. But while they are optimized for the speed I desire, they are not efficient.

for us it was only the right choice for our type of cruise.
Like to go in some place with very shallow water.
After our schooner Damien II (not a lifting keel only centerboard model 1.60m) we built in Vietnam a 17.40m lod ketch motor sailor twin engine the draft of the hull is 1.35m half of the ballast in the center board half in the bottom of the hull.

After that built our "passagemaker" Long-Cours 62, (same designer for the hull line than the Damien, Vietnam built : Joubert),
we said to Joubert : flat bottom to stand on alone, low consumption, below 5 m width, minimum draft (hull 1.12cm, ruder 1.30m , could be 1.13 if 2 rudder) for us it was the perfect boat : very low consumption, basic K.I.S.S. boat.
Unfortunately even if we sold our actual boat we will not able to built a new "near " similar one even smaller because the price to built hull now $$$and we are now really too old to start again a built one by ourself :-(
even, if all owner of boat, I play to design the "next one" smaller (because $$$, one engine because $$$, less alloy (10 in place of 12, 8 in place of 10) because ... yes $, but even it is too expensive for us .


For example a member of this site contacted us and he said for an hull of 8200kg he got a quotation of....378000€ only the hull !! It means 42€for kg of in a finish hull ? ! In 20 year the price for an empty hull increase by more than 500% !? more than 8.35% per year ? I don't know your salary but in France clearly they don't follow this curve :lol:



And also the "raw" material alloy don't

 

[cfr]

i have a 44 ft alu sailboat from 1980, hull was built by sandmeier in germany at 60.000 DM .......approx 6 ton. crazy times. i look for a older trawler too in future but will just buy the best available when i am ready, make no sense to dream. luckily i am living on board half year in grrece since 8 years so actually dreaming in a dream ....like also to have a french canal and offshore capable boat, trans ocean one can ship the boat.....

 

[klee wyck]

have a look at leen trimaran and there is a cat from thailand with same hull like domino comming

I think I saw hull number one of this Leen tri in the shipyard at Port Angeles over this past month. It seems like the vessel was not more than one year old or so and the gel coat had failed catastrophically. Variable thickness and was cracking throughout. It was painful to look at and set off major alarm bells in my head.

 

[Hippocampus]

I previously worked as a designer and prototype specialist for a center console manufacturer and we were retrofitting our stringer inserts to support the installation of these type of gyro's.. both brands.

I can tell you based on that experience the Seakeeper is very complicated and maintenance intensive, they are also known amongst the industry as difficult to deal with and poor warranty response. The better model is the "QUICK" MC2 series made in Italy.

Have a SeaKeeper 5. Been running it for close to 2 years now. Only service so far is flush coolant and a look see at hydraulics and external bearings (both fine). Although put in by prior owner doesn’t have enough hours to require the vacuum be broken so has yet to need removal for service. I don’t know about the smaller sizes used in center consoles but for the 5 and bigger the company has been very responsive, service minimal and it works great. Only drawback is when it needs the vacuum broken it needs to go to a central service center. I’ll time that for when the boat is on the hard for another reason.

If you compare a weight traveling in a vacuum to one which is not the one in a vacuum will spin faster while requiring less energy to do so. Given its spinning faster at less energy means it is more resistant to perturbations and it is more effective . Everything in a boat is a compromise. If you want a device a bit less complicated and expensive get a Quicke. If you want the most effective gyro available get a SeaKeeper. Most people want the maximal stabilization they can get hence SeaKeeper remains the dominant player for gyros. That’s true even in the smaller sizes. Mine was installed by prior owner in 2009 and still running strong.
Some threads
https://forums.ybw.com/threads/quick-v-seakeeper.491996/

 

[cfr]

I think I saw hull number one of this Leen tri in the shipyard at Port Angeles over this past month. It seems like the vessel was not more than one year old or so and the gel coat had failed catastrophically. Variable thickness and was cracking throughout. It was painful to look at and set off major alarm bells in my head.

ofcourse if its true it would be a real desaster.....heard about problems with the sailing tri neel too. as i understood they sre using panel and a positive build so the gelcoat has been appield later not in a mold.like fairing....

 

[klee wyck]

ofcourse if its true it would be a real desaster.....heard about problems with the sailing tri neel too. as i understood they sre using panel and a positive build so the gelcoat has been appield later not in a mold.like fairing....

That is the way I understand it as well. I would want some proof over time that this issue can be resolved.

 

[Hippocampus]

I’ve been in love with Denis’s 58 since the first one. The latest twin engine version checks all my boxes but would keep the man cave. Artnautica Europe offers it with a Quicke. Think that’s not unreasonable for for the European market and to hold the price down but with past experience with lombardini I’d not want anything Italian on a US or Caribbean boat. There’s one dealer/service center for Quike on the east coast of Florida to my knowledge. SeaKeeper has them just about everywhere throughout the world being the dominant player. Also the quick in equivalent sizes are heavier and the Artnautica 58 makes hay because it’s light.

For the 58 I’d probably not spec a gyro at all. It’s a very narrow boat (hence its remarkable efficiency) . Hull shape suggests it will be resistant to pitch but not roll in spite of having a good AVS and being self righting. If my program was mixed thin water coastal and ocean would put in Magnus master. It’s less likely you would need very strong stabilization in really skinny water and more likely there’s junk in the water to hit. With Magnus effect best of both worlds. Good stabilization in open ocean and easy to retract when not needed.

But Denis drew a boat to go places. Simple, bulletproof , and incredibly efficient. It’s made to run at a small window of cruising speeds. So if used for it’s purpose and really skinny waters are rarely encountered would have tried and true fins spec’d. Fin size can be spec’d as is appropriate to cruising speeds. No issues there as with SD hulls. With Humphrees you can avoid the additional complexity of hydraulics and keep the weight down. Although in moderate to mild severe conditions gyros maybe more effective in controlling roll for a Artnautica fins maybe more reliable in providing comfort in all conditions at less weight and intrusion on useable interior space. Might add in a passive device for being at anchor such as a valved flopper stopper pair in Al or other light weight material.

With the LDLs in think you have the same problem as with multihulls. They are sensitive to weight. I know less about power but there’s a fairly clear line between good blue water multi sail and not so much. The BWB are lighter, have thinner hulls and less payload. When carrying too much weight they perform poorly. Examples being Gunboats, Outremer, Rapido, Catana etc. Regardless of EU rating the less efficient series production boats have dimensionally thicker hulls,heavier for loa are less sensitive to weight but pay for that in efficiency, speed, and seakeeping. Believe the same logic applies to LDLs v heavy displacement Monos in power.

As regards motion sickness studies show there’s three populations. Those more sensitive to more rapid accelerations usually at higher frequencies. Those more sensitive to slower perturbations usually at lower frequencies. Those sensitive to both.
Think beyond choice of type of stabilization more importance is type of boat. A heavy displacement boat maybe much more comfortable for some( think nordhavn, kk, northern marine or bearing) . For others a ultralight multi or LDL may give greater comfort. Float in the water (heavy displacement) or float on the water(light displacement). Move with swells or move with wind waves/chop. Would go back to your bride and ask on which boats she felt the best and which worst. Frequency sensitivity usually varies with displacement and form stability. Would choose the hull form first and then the brand/model. Have crewed with folks who had no issues on relatively heavy monos but were miserable on a racing multis and v a v.

It’s too bad about Leens and the same is said to apply to Neels from what I’ve heard. Like the designs but apparently they don’t age well.