Seeking Advice: 1971 Hatteras 53/60 - take over a family heirloom?

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another vote for go for it. You can always sell it later if its not for you. I can tell you one thing, older hats that are well cared for ALWAYS get attention pulling into a marina, they are just a classic timeless design. My buddy has a 60 Hatt and it gets bigger the more you are on it and is fantastic for extended voyages. I would look into extending the flybridge sides for more seating which could be easily done especially if you are looking into a hardtop. My parents had an older Hat that was re-painted and it always got comments when pulling into marinas.
 
Yeah, we have no idea. They have a guy who basically lives at their property whose only job is to take care of the boat. That would *ahem* be a bit beyond our means here in San Diego!

Plan for a slip would be to get on a wait list here in SD & then move it from MX once it's available.

Bow thruster would sure be nice to have... ~$50k?

We have a trip planned to MX in early Feb, so will take a close look then. I promise more pics! :)

I suspect the Bow Thruster would be in the $15K-$25K range assuming you are talking electric. Given it is a heavy boat with big props and rudder I suspect you will find it OK without a thruster, especially for our typical use in SD bay and area. It would be nice to have a thruster in Avalon while picking up a mooring but generally not required. I don't have a thruster on my 48LRC but I would not turn one down if given to me!
I think you will find your maintenance cost to be roughly 2.53x your current cost. But that is after you fix/replace everything that needs it (below)

Just as a reference, when I purchased my 48LRC it was "well maintained". I spent about $25K with the yard just to get it to where I felt I could move it south from SF Bay area to San Diego. About $10K of this was just taking out the old stabilizers and glassing the hull openings. I could have done repairs but that was at least $20K and much of the system would still be 45 years old.I can tell you that the stabilizers on the Hatteras Motoryachts are much more appreciated than on the LRC series. Given the MY are faster they also benefit more but it is also the differences in the hull design. The LRC series is just generally more stable (based on my own subjective feel of the ride).

Some of the items you probably will want/need to attend to (outside of the engine room & stabilizers which either can be very expensive if major issues are found or just moderately so). All of this assumes you are doing most of the work. Otherwise double or triple the estimates as a rough budget.

Heads are probably old and if original galley maid units very loud. If DYI you are looking at about $1.5K each including new sanitation hose
Electronics probably are ancient. Assuming you go with some middle of the road options I would budget $15-20K.
Batteries: Most likely these are end of life. If you plan to use this boat often at anchor you should consider this a good time to update to Lithium. It will cost you 2-4x the cost of just putting in more lead batts but SO MUCH better and less to worry about (Both in terms of maintaining them, over discharging and time to charge (less genset run time). They will also outlive traditional batteries unless you are better than most about how you use them and how you maintain them. I am not in that category so I love knowing I am unlikely to kill my LiPo batteries if I run them low or don't charge them fully.
If you do change batteries (and maybe even if you don't) you might need new charger/inverter. A challenging but fun for me DYI project but I work in technology. But not beyond the reach of most experienced boaters, especially with some help from others with more experience. Add another $3K+/- for this (it is more than just the cost of the chg/inv.).
Genset: Speaking of which, this will be a large variable depending upon whether you can use what is there, make some repairs or have to go new. I don't have a guess on this one.
HVAC-If needed (not so much in SoCal) the original systems are certainly at/near end of life. Fortunately on my 1976 Hatteras I still have all 4 of the original units (split systems) and they all work. But I know it is an item that should be replaces. To go back to the original split system the cost is around $35K. I am pretty sure when the time comes I will go with self contained units as long as I can find the space to mount them. I think I can do this for probably $3K avg x 4 so about 1/3 of the cost of the split systems. The cabin noise MAY be a bit louder than a new split system but these self contained systems are much easier to replace next time around and cost is much lower. Around $2.5K/unit and it becomes more or less a drop in replacement process.

So if you get the engines running fine and the stabilizers are not in bad shape you might be looking at a minimum additional cost of $25-$50K to get it ready for the family. Lots of other "small systems" such as fresh water pumps, bilge pumps, lighting, etc. that can add up but no really large single item. You could see this surge to $100K+ fairly easily but you would have a fantastic boat if that is what you are seeking. As long as you are prepared to do the work (and write the checks) and have the time/budget it could be a very rewarding project.
Once you and someone who knows Hatteras gets on board you will be able to dial in the estimate.
 
Conservative guess would be 10x the annual maintenance cost . Are you ready for that?
 
Conservative guess would be 10x the annual maintenance cost . Are you ready for that?

I have owned more than a dozen boats of various sizes. Based upon my own experience I don't understand how the jump for the boat sizes mentioned is going to be close to 10X the annual maintenance cost.

The Hatteras has 2 engines so that should be 2x the cost but maybe only 1.5x if your mechanic bills for travel time? Other costs will be higher but I cannot see how it would approach 10x cost. This assumes the boat is initially brought up to a reasonable standard and you are not just dealing with years of deferred maintenance). Even if you are replacing things the cost of a radar is going to be the same for either boat. Sure the autopilot pump will be larger so some incremental cost (25-50% maybe?). Bottom cleaning is usually by the linear foot. Wash wax is usually priced that way as well. A new windlass will be larger and cost more. You have more A/C so that might be 2-4x higher. Shore power will be more 50-100%? Fuel likely will be higher but of course many variables will determine that and unless extensive miles it probably is not the largest factor of total operational cost.

I do expect the first year costs will be much higher as I think most owners have that experience. I could even make a case it might be 10X but that would include a lot of significant capital expenditures on top of deferred maint.

Where is the 10x coming from ? That seems too be more than just a conservative guess. My best guess would be 2-3x the cost of the current vessel, maybe less after the first 1-2 years. Again this is recurring costs, not costs for system replacements/upgrades which you have on whatever boat you own (although it will be higher on the larger boat for some items).
 
It’s hard to discuss when we don’t know the actual condition but if you take a 5 year average it might shock you. 2 big wheels , stabilizer fins, 100% more bottom sg/ ft. Hauling , storage, hard to find D mechanics, massive amount of exterior maintenance , yards of soft goods, complex electrical systems with big generator and ac’s . This is my business . I have seen grown men cry over yard bills. Buying the boat was the easy part, keeping it running is another story.
 
Yeah 10x seems very high. Current boat has 2 engines, but NA and much smaller (FL120's). Moorage will be 10x since I have a sweetheart mooring ball in America's Cup Harbor for $150/mo right now. Just checked and the larger moorings I'm on the wait list for are still years out.

Slip situation does not look good from my research so far... San Carlos suggestion is interesting but it's a 12hr drive from SD. Ensenada might be workable but need to check availability - rates are 1/2 to 1/3 San Diego ($1k/mo vs 2-3k/mo). Honestly it's not that appealing being so far away from our boat. I'm spoiled & enjoy popping over for a day once a week or so to work on and from the boat.
 
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We had a 46’ that we kept in SD and we lived in Tucson. It was 420 miles one way. It took 5.5 hours to get there. I drove out almost every weekend, at least 45 times each year. It wasn’t too bad because the interstates were not very crowded. But I don’t think I would have wanted to go much further.
 
FYI - San Diego to Ensenada isn't that bad. 1.5 to 2.0 hours. Crossing border northbound is a different matter - with SENTRI (CBP equivalent of FastPass) its usually just a 20-30 min delay, but can be up to an hour during morning rush our. Without SENTRI, can easily be 2-3 hour delay. Everyone in the car must have SENTRI, not just the car and driver.

Lot to be said for Ensenada. Calling it commutable is not one. But it is workable for repairs.

Peter
 
I see you mentioned already having consulted the Hatteras Owners Forum (“HOF”). I don’t mean any disrespect here, but for all things Hatteras, you really need to adhere to what the HOF’ers say. Those guys eat, breathe (like dragon’s breath), and bleed Hatteras and Detroits, and they are the almighty God of knowledge on those old Hatts. I’ve been a participant on the HOF for almost 20 years. I had a 1980 58 MY, Series I, until Hurricane Irma in 2017. They taught me, a girl, everything I know about boats and diesels to the point that I can tear down the front of a Detroit and rebuild it, and a lot more, including HVAC. They taught me all about 32v, 24v, 12v systems, as well as the 120 and 240v systems.

The electrical panel on these boats is VERY complex. I had one of the guys sit with me for a while going through it until I had that “OMG!!! I GET IT” moment at which point I could configure that panel to pull as much juice as possible into the boat - you gotta understand the different “Ship Service” panels and the electrical panels located all over the boat. These boats are VERY complex....very. It took me a few years to fully understand all that is there. Once I did, I could play her systems like a piano.

I’m tellin’ ya...listen to what the HOF’ers say and moving forward, seek information, knowledge and instruction about these old Hatts from those guys. The forum is not as good as it used to be, but you’ll quickly figure out who the “reliable” gurus are.
 
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OP, based on what you've said I'd also say 100% go for it. Your current 41' will be getting tight for a family of 5 plus pets, especially if you're considering retiring on it.

My 65 footer had the same, weird electrical system with the 32v also. Big deal. The boat ran each day just fine and crossed the Pacific.

Unless you're going to be constantly docking and your permanent slip is challenging, you can live without adding an expensive bow thruster. Your patriarch did for 50 years. However, since that boat is designed for higher speeds, it may have smaller rudders than my cruiser did. So you'll need to check how well it maneuvers and walks sideways when docking.

If you are planning to retire on it until you guys pass, and planning to cruise long distances, then decide what speeds you need to reach and how much range you need. The cost of cruising 12-15 knots versus 8 will make your eyes water at $5.50 a gallon. Also, and I know I'll get yelled at here, but if you're interested in the "trawler" lifestyle at 8 knots, then consider repowering with smaller, cleaner and vastly/hugely more fuel efficient engines. That's a long term investment but worth it if your plans are long term as well. There's one guy here on the TF who owns a Hatt 53 repowered with a couple of 4-cyl JDs, if I remember right - turned his boat into a pseudo-trawler.

Good luck.
 
Regarding to boat work, I was referred to Ensenada Dry Dock and they seemed reputable. However, the quote I received from the technician Diego Fernandes for some simple work made my eyes bulge. Same pricing as I could have obtained in the US.
 
Regarding to boat work, I was referred to Ensenada Dry Dock and they seemed reputable. However, the quote I received from the technician Diego Fernandes for some simple work made my eyes bulge. Same pricing as I could have obtained in the US.
Are you referring to Baja Naval in Ensenada? If memory serves, one of the sons of the owner is Diego. If so, I had a similar experience with pricing from them


Peter
 
Also, and I know I'll get yelled at here, but if you're interested in the "trawler" lifestyle at 8 knots, then consider repowering with smaller, cleaner and vastly/hugely more fuel efficient engines. That's a long term investment but worth it if your plans are long term as well.


No yelling necessary...

But I don't know that I'd see prophylactic repowering as worth all the bother.

If we repowered, we'd save some fuel -- over our typical 6 GPH total at 8 kts, which isn't all that horrible. OTOH the cost (arm, leg, mule, small boy, good hunting dog, etc.) would probably mean we'd repay the loan sometime "in the year 2525"...

And the boat would depreciate from X$ to 2/3rds X$.

Seems to me repowering for just cause -- blown engine or some such -- makes much more sense, and I could probably think of several ways to approach it on OP's kind of Hatt. But then it sounds like those existing DDs are mostly bullet-proof anyway, can be rebuilt forever...

-Chris
 
Good points, Ranger. But the beauty of Jimmies is that it would be easy enough to install smaller injectors and de-rate them a bit. Letting them running a bit hotter at 8 knots is better over the long term than running high HP models at idle all the time
 
Hi Socalrider,

As a single anecdotal data point, I took an almost identical leap of faith in 2002, for almost the same use case, on a 53' Canoe Cove. Very similarly complex boat (twin DD's, two generators, no thruster, multiple staterooms and heads, etc. etc.). Bought mine in Newport Beach, went to Ensenada for my then 90-day tax holiday, and moved it back to San Diego for four years of refit and repairs. Then emigrated with the boat after retirement to the PNW, where I continued to own,maintain, and operate the boat, including multiple AK and BC trips, until health issues forced me off the boat in 2013.

Total cost of ownership, including both fixed, variable, depreciation, and cost of money for my 11 years of ownership was north of $36K per year. Fast forward that number to 2022 puts a reasonable "guess" of same at ~$60K. And I'm a dedicated and reasonably competent DIY guy, who spent thousands of unpaid man hours to accomplish my goals.

Obviously, your mileage may vary. And the experience was PRICELESS, irregardless of expense, particularly the photo of my kids kayaking amongst glacier ice in Endicott Arm, AK.

Again, only one family's experience with a similar powerboat, and not attempting in any way to influence your decision on how to pursue your boating lifestyle. Obviously, that's up to you and your family.

Best of luck in the future.

Regards,

Pete

ps-as your avatar shows you home-ported in San Diego, you're obviously familiar with the SD-Ensenada commute issues. Personally, my time in Ensenada on my tax holiday was HORRIBLE from a commuting perspective. Maintaining a boat there while living in SD was very, very difficult, and I only did it for three months. Logistics was a nightmare, as was the commute, even given a fast pass. I won't go into the Mexican work ethos, but suffice it to say, it didn't work for me. And while a full refit at a competent yard appeared attractive for cosmetic issues but substandard for structural or mechanical issues, I felt I'd literally have to live there 24/7 and speak fluent spanish to make it cost effective. Trying to do this between SD and San Carlos, for example, seems like a non-starter, at least for me.

And finally, a bow thruster for my boat never crossed my mind.
 
Thanks guys. @yungpeter your SWAG of $60k is really close to the number I spreadsheeted out ($54k) based on quoted slip fees and escalations of my current expenses. It does not include cost of money or depreciation estimates.

Slip availability looks like a huge barrier. Basically what I'm hearing is that turnover for 65' slips is very rare, and nobody has more than 30 days' notice. Kona Kai, where I used to keep my current trawler, told me they have a 2.5 year wait list and are prioritizing 2010+ boats (the 2.5yrs is for 2010+!)
 
Slip availability looks like a huge barrier. Basically what I'm hearing is that turnover for 65' slips is very rare, and nobody has more than 30 days' notice. Kona Kai, where I used to keep my current trawler, told me they have a 2.5 year wait list and are prioritizing 2010+ boats (the 2.5yrs is for 2010+!)

Is it possible in that market to buy a waterfront home with a dock, and rent-out the home while retaining the right to use the dock? You'd get the income from the rent, offset by depreciation on the value of the built improvements, plus all expenses of the property would be deductible. Your tenants would be paying your mortgage, and the property would be reliably appreciating in value, which cannot be said about our boats. Best of all, you'd have a slip that no one can throw you out of.
 
Is it possible in that market to buy a waterfront home with a dock, and rent-out the home while retaining the right to use the dock? You'd get the income from the rent, offset by depreciation on the value of the built improvements, plus all expenses of the property would be deductible. Your tenants would be paying your mortgage, and the property would be reliably appreciating in value, which cannot be said about our boats. Best of all, you'd have a slip that no one can throw you out of.

That's an interesting idea, but there are only a very small number of homes with private docks in San Diego. Like three or four. There's a set of condos off Coronado which I think come with dock access but not for boats this big (from memory).
 
While dockage is always a concern, I have found that those who commit to searching and finding a solution seem to always work it out. Scour craigslist daily. Talk regularly to all the marinas. talk to friends and clubs in the area. Rarely in my experience do the slips go to those on waiting lists, but rather those who built a relationship and have a need. Everyone told us its very hard and there were 2-10 year wait lists for 60+ in Seattle in the 3 year period we had that size of vessels. We first got one at Elliott Bay which supposedly is 10+ year in a month. Then got North Lake Union when we wanted freshwater.
Then prime covered South Lake Union. All within a month of when we wanted them. somehow I have found 4 different 60' slips in prime areas including one covered in that time. When we had a similar situation that landed us our 80' dream vessel, I found a 90' slip in a week. If you are serious, put some work into it and you will figure it out.

By the way, that vessel looks beautiful and I say go for it. You will figure it out.
 
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