Lithium Ion Tool Battery Fires

[BruceK]

I`m seeing plenty of reports of these causing fires here, a multiple daily occurrence, burning houses, garages, apartments. Worst culprits seem to be batteries powering electric bikes and scooters(? food delivery bikes). Modifications and non specified chargers may be involved, especially from that big offshore producer exporter. Left on charge too long, unsupervised, seems an issue too.
I`m considering storage of my 4 domestic tool batts, for the drill, leaf blower, chainsaw, etc,outside the house,and not in the garage. I don`t keep any on the boat. It would need to be weather protected.

This news report is on point:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-14/new-south-wales-lithium-battery-related-fires/103585608

Are others doing/considering something similar?

 

[Comodave]

No, I just charge the batteries and set an alarm on my phone to take them off charge.

 

[Insequent]

My theory on the fires is that they are associated with el cheapo tools etc. Quality tools come with quality, smart chargers that turn off completely once the battery is fully charged. My ebike is Trek and does that. Tools are Makita or Milwaukee which seem to do similar although the green light on the charger remains on.

For the el cheapo chargers I suspect they continue to float or trickle charge at too high a voltage, overcharge then trigger battery failure.

I also take stuff off the charger once the battery has been charged. For the big bike battery, I charge it in my office where I can monitor it. It is not on charge overnight or if I am not home.

 

[rslifkin]

Other than laptops and cell phones, I tend not to charge any Li-ion batteries unattended or leave them on the charger once they're full. I don't worry much about failures while they're stored, although I do make sure they aren't at risk of physical damage or getting punctured while not in use.

I don't generally keep any cordless tools on the boat anyway, those live at home and come to the boat occasionally. The permanent boat tools like a drill are all corded, as they see infrequent use and keeping batteries charged when I need them would be more of a pain than pulling out an extension cord.

 

[Jklotz]

I've got a friend who works for a major European auto maker. According to him, almost all of the battery related fires in cars involved some sort of impact months, sometimes even a few years before they occured. They've learned a lot about them and build them better now. Still wouldn't want one that had been dropped or mishandled anywhere near my boat. Course' if they were sourced from Shady McShade on ebay or craigslist, all bets are off.

 

[dannc]

Years ago, I had one remaining NiMH cordless battery that still worked. The rest had aged out. One day I needed to drill a few holes so I grabbed the battery and drill, got the work done, put the battery in the charger and sat down to work on the laptop.

After a few minutes, I started smelling something.... Got up and walked around following the smell. Sure enough, it was the battery. That battery was smoking like a chimney and the case was melting. I unplugged it and tossed it outside on some gravel.

If I had not been home or not been paying attention, that battery would have caught fire and likely have burned down the house.

I did not buy a replacement battery...

Years later, maybe a decade, I HAD to buy a new cordless drill and it is lithium. I only charge it when it is on the fireplace hearth and I store it when it is done charging. I can see the battery charging and I watch it...

The old battery and the new one, are from Dewalt. The battery that melted was not abused but it failed.

On or off a boat, I would only charge a battery where if it caught fire it would not destroy property.

 

[Iggy]

My theory on the fires is that they are associated with el cheapo tools etc. Quality tools come with quality, smart chargers that turn off completely once the battery is fully charged. My ebike is Trek and does that. Tools are Makita or Milwaukee which seem to do similar although the green light on the charger remains on.

For the el cheapo chargers I suspect they continue to float or trickle charge at too high a voltage, overcharge then trigger battery failure.

I also take stuff off the charger once the battery has been charged. For the big bike battery, I charge it in my office where I can monitor it. It is not on charge overnight or if I am not home.

Yep!

 

[Carl Martin]

The attached article is about ebike batteries, not power tool batteries. The proliferation in fires related to lithium ion batteries is due to cheap Chinese ebike batteries, not tool batteries. Not to say it can't happen but nobody is recommending charging your Dewalt, Makita or Ryobi batteries outside. However, I always recharge my ebikes outside.

 

[tiltrider1]

Take note. There are many different chemistries of lithium batteries. LiFePo4 which is what we use for battery banks is the most stable. It is not the same chemistry used by auto’s and e-bikes.

News reporters are usually well educated in sensationalism but not in actual scientific fact. In their defense their readers are less educated.

 

[psneeld]

The attached article is about ebike batteries, not power tool batteries. The proliferation in fires related to lithium ion batteries is due to cheap Chinese ebike batteries, not tool batteries. Not to say it can't happen but nobody is recommending charging your Dewalt, Makita or Ryobi batteries outside. However, I always recharge my ebikes outside.

Aren't e-bike battery packs made from the same little individually made Chinese LI-batteries that are in the tool battery most likely are?

Granted to tool battery packs may be constructed a little better....or not...and maybe the tool battery charger is better....or not.

Both products need close watching on quality assurance.

Both types of battery packs are not supposed to be charged right after use if they are warm to hot...they are supposed to rest/cool first. My bet is that many owners don't heed this part of many instructions.

 

[dannc]

The attached article is about ebike batteries, not power tool batteries. The proliferation in fires related to lithium ion batteries is due to cheap Chinese ebike batteries, not tool batteries. Not to say it can't happen but nobody is recommending charging your Dewalt, Makita or Ryobi batteries outside. However, I always recharge my ebikes outside.

A Dewalt tool battery did almost catch fire and burn down my house as I posted above. Afterwards, I went for years without using battery powered tool but then I had to buy one. The batteries get charged where if they do catch fire, it won't cause property damage. Had to buy some replacement yard equipment that are battery powered and they are charged where I can watch them. If they do short out, they won't burn down my house.

If it is not humid and/or rainy outside, the batteries get charged on the porch which is fireproof. The Dewalt battery which had never been abused, always babied, shorted out, started to melt and if I had not caught it in time likely would have burned down the house.

After that near miss, I don't trust any of these batteries and chargers even though they are from respected brands.

 

[dannc]

...
Both types of battery packs are not supposed to be charged right after use if they are warm to hot...they are supposed to rest/cool first. My bet is that many owners don't heed this part of many instructions.

Yep, I would guess many users pop the battery in the charger when the battery is warm. In my case, I drilled 3-4 holes in thin plastic before putting the battery back in the charger. The battery was not warm at all but it still shorted out for some reason.

 

[sealandsky]

Cordless tool batteries are subject to being dropped and internally damaged. I personally know three different individuals that have lost either their garages or entire homes due to tool batteries exploding or igniting while being charged. It seems that once charged, there is less of a risk - Or maybe it just seems that way based on my experience. The problem is that it's also our cell phones, shavers, e-cigs, laptops, I Pads, etc that are also subject to the same fire risk. I'm debating a fireproof charging box for cell phones on my boat. (They also tend to get dropped).

 

[Mambo42]

Several years ago I saw this video of battery testing and must say it was an eye opener for me. At the time I just started thinking about lithium batteries in my boat, did not know anything about them, so started searching.
I always though that Litium batteries were safe, did not even know there were 2 types of lithium batteries. Then I found out that lithium ion is the unsafe version and lithium iron phosphate is the safe version.

So then I wanted to know why lithium ion was the unsafe version and indeed you get to the point of how the batteries are constructed. That is when I found out that a simple battery could be built by just connecting loads of AAA batteries. You only need 1 bad one and you can have a problem.

I also did not know that lithium Ion batteries basically need cooling. Also did not know that any damage can set off a fire. Damage can happen by dropping the battery or by simply overcharging the battery. The smaller ones don't have a bms which will switch off the charger when the battery is full.

As a result I am very careful with lithium ion batteries, which means I will take extra precautions with my E-bike and E-scooter, but I will never have a guarantee nothing will happen.

 

[BruceK]

Take note. There are many different chemistries of lithium batteries. LiFePo4 which is what we use for battery banks is the most stable. It is not the same chemistry used by auto’s and e-bikes.

News reporters are usually well educated in sensationalism but not in actual scientific fact. In their defense their readers are less educated.

Thread is obviously not about LifePo4.
News is reporting and publicizing, I believe at the request of the Fire and Rescue, the frequency of LI fires, the dangers, and improving safety. It`s appropriate and informative, it could save a house, an apartment building or lives.

 

[J0k3r]

Charging small batteries

I sometimes charge Li-Po batteries (drones) or batteries from questionable tool makers. For these I place them in a paint can and then place a 1 gallon ziploc bag filled with sand over the can. The idea is if the battery catches on fire it will melt the bag and dump the sand on the battery. Just a little bit of insurance.

 

[ronobrien]

A friend is a fire fighting officer and formerly worked for Shannon Yachts building yachts. He handles water borne incidents for the fire dept. He has seen a couple boat fires which had clearly originated at the battery/charging system. There were no forensics that he is aware of but still remains wary of then technology onboard a boat. Whatever the cause, the boats still burned.

 

[psneeld]

Boat fires were a big percentage of boat issues long before LiFePO4 batteries came about...and even now it's not usually the batteries...it's the system they are attached to.

They CAN be the cause, but rare from my reading.