Another new start for Helmsman

[Helmsman]

I found these on the sbmar.com site. Pics from the site are attached. The link shows a variety of Cummins engine zincs, with the QSB 6.7 at the bottom. It appears to me that there are 5 zincs. Two are listed as 1/2” (thread?) on the aftercooler. One is 3/8” thread on the gear oil and two 3/8” thread on the heat exchanger. They are marked on the pictures. Other sites say there are three 1/2”.

I read elsewhere that you need to be careful of a couple of things. Have something to catch the water below the lower aftercooler zinc so it doesn’t spill on the fuel pump. There may also be a need to shorten (saw it off) the small one in the gear oil cooler. I am not sure if the shortening is an accurate statement but could be verified before placement by comparing the new with the old. This tracks with what I saw on a newer Helmsman 43e. Cummins certainly doesn’t make this aspect of maintenance easy to determine.

Zinc Locations Cummins Marine Diesel Engines

Zinc Locations Cummins Marine Diesel Engines

www.sbmar.com

 

[chanprr]

YES! You just witnessed my ability to tpye before coffee!

I (and others) need a source, and part number for the anode for the ZF85A.

If your have anything from the ZF company pdf, pic or anything as well, that would be great. I went back to cummins rep and he wasn't super sure.
Thanks!

 

[chanprr]

Tom, I have the op manual and parts list for the ZF85A. I need your email address because the docs cannot be uploaded to TF. Thanks. Robert : chanprr@hotmail.com

 

[Seas_the_day]

I am not aware of a zinc/anode on the ZF85A transmission itself, however, the transmission/gear oil cooler has an anode. Cummins provides part numbers for their anodes via their QuickServe site. For instance, the gear oil cooler anode is noted to be part #3957921, but Cummins does not publish the anode characteristics on Quickserve (e.g., thread type or anode length / diameter).

FYI - I direct owners to boatzincs.com for engine anodes on the QSB6.7 in our more recent systems manuals, and haven't received any negative feedback, so I think the parts provided are spot on:

Cummins QSB6.7 Engine Zinc Anode Kit

Cummins QSB6.7 Engine Zinc Anode Kit

boatzincs.com

Van Helker / Helmsman Trawlers

 

[Tom-Jill-Lilly]

Scott and Gaby.. thanks for the photo of the clocks. Im might have to rename Embark to Copycat. I went to the left so I could out more toys in the center of the helm station headboard.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Hydraulicjump]

Ohhh. That looks really good. And the view through the window is quintessential PNW in May. A reminder of the four seasons: summer, fall, winter and disappointment.

From sunny California.

 

[KDT]

We seem to have selected many of the same options.

We plan to use swim step davits for several reasons. We found having the dinghy clipped to the swim step makes getting in and out easier and safer. In an emergency, deploying the tender from the swim step is quicker and doesn’t rely on the hoist.

We went for the full size pilot house convertible berth. We’re looking for a comfortable recliner for the salon that reclines completely for one teen age grandson to sleep on. His parents will get the salon berth and his older brother will have the pilot house. We haven’t seen how the salon curtains work and would be interested in seeing photos.

We opted for the drop down TV in the salon and the master stateroom. We plan to boat year round and having everything we have at home will be nice. We used a big TV on our last boat to look at photos we took during the day. We can also mirror our chart app to the big screen so our guests can monitor our progress from the salon.

We also chose the pneumatic lift for access to storage below the master berth. We added the second fly bridge helm seat. It will come in handy for teaching the grandsons how to drive.

We elected for shore power connection at the starboard pilot house door. At home we dock bow in. The midship location works for either orientation. Another Helmsman owner we talked to said he needs an extension cord to dock bow in with the transom connection.

We love the wide open space up top. In addition to our kayaks, we plan to carry my mountain bike and my wife’s recumbent trike on the boat deck. A friend with a 38E showed us some clips that mount to the rails for securing items carried on the upper deck.

Doug, We also chose starboard pilot house door electrical connection on our in build 43 for much the same reasons you expressed. Now, after several years, do you have any regrets on that decision? Only problem I can think of is the occasional port side tie when the dock pedestal may be astern. Thanx for your thoughts.

 

[Doug_Snider]

Doug, We also chose starboard pilot house door electrical connection on our in build 43 for much the same reasons you expressed. Now, after several years, do you have any regrets on that decision? Only problem I can think of is the occasional port side tie when the dock pedestal may be astern. Thanx for your thoughts.

The midship location of the power outlet has worked very well for us in our own slip and at marinas we have visited. The 50 foot cord has always been sufficient with some slack remaining. The distance to the pedestal from the midship connection is about the same, bow in or stern in. Due to an issue at the pedestal last winter (fused terminal), we wound up with an additional 25' foot cord that also works from the connection near the pilot house door. We added a 3' pigtail adapter that works with either cord.

 

[KDT]

power cord forward and Victron is in town

Okay final final.. Power cord going forward. Thanks everyone on helping on our last option.

If I find it a nuisance, I found this right angle adapter (yes another connection). Maybe I can talk the, into make a 50 right angle cord. Marinco 30A Right Angle Cordset Shore Power Adapter (wholesalemarine.com)

Marinco 30A Right Angle Cordset Shore Power Adapter

And for you electronic fans.. At the risk of starting another topic.. our vessel, hull 51, will be getting a Victron inverter and a GX controller 50 but need to figure out if a 7” screen will fit in the overhead.

I was in Fisheries last week and they have Victron coming in for training and demos.. I relied this to Scott and he is sending someone. I would go, but cant.. if anyone goes, it’d be good to hear back. I would like the separate screen to show battery conditions, in/out amps, solar input, batt temps, engine room temp, freezer temps (might do something separate there), and remote alarms via cell phone such as bilge operations.
You can sign up here.

Victron Energy North America Training Tour - Seattle, WA Registration, Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 8:30 AM | Eventbrite

Victron Energy North America Training Tour - Seattle, WA

I am reading this a few years later...any thoughts now on electrical connections at Helm side doors?

 

[Doug_Snider]

An interesting note of the power connection location: On our Hull #50 the connection is just aft of the first step up to the bow. On Tom and Jill's Hull #51, the connection is just forward of the first step up to the fly bridge. You might want to confirm which location you are getting. With the power pedestal forward of the boat, the cord would cross the pilothouse bulkhead door on Hull #51 and not so on ours.

 

[KDT]

Doug, would the reverse be true...if the pedestal is aft of amidships does yours cross the door? (when you say pilothouse bulkhead door, do you mean main entrance door or bulwark's side door?

 

[HeadedToTexas]

The midship location of the power outlet has worked very well for us in our own slip and at marinas we have visited.

The only electrical connections on our 2007 Mariner 37 is on the transom. Where are the midship connections on the new models?

 

[HeadedToTexas]

An interesting note of the power connection location: On our Hull #50 the connection is just aft of the first step up to the bow. On Tom and Jill's Hull #51, the connection is just forward of the first step up to the fly bridge. You might want to confirm which location you are getting. With the power pedestal forward of the boat, the cord would cross the pilothouse bulkhead door on Hull #51 and not so on ours.

Oops. Should have kept reading!

 

[HeadedToTexas]

An interesting note of the power connection location: On our Hull #50 the connection is just aft of the first step up to the bow. On Tom and Jill's Hull #51, the connection is just forward of the first step up to the fly bridge. You might want to confirm which location you are getting. With the power pedestal forward of the boat, the cord would cross the pilothouse bulkhead door on Hull #51 and not so on ours.

So roughly where indicated on this photo? And they both are on the starboard side, correct, unlike indicated on my photo?

 

[Helmsman]

I am really glad to have mine on the transom. It works well at the home port, and if possible I always back in when under way. A 50 for cable takes care of
a nose in for me. I had the guys position mine on the interior of the stern wall. Keeps some of the weather off of it and the cable connectors.

 

[Doug_Snider]

Doug, would the reverse be true...if the pedestal is aft of amidships does yours cross the door? (when you say pilothouse bulkhead door, do you mean main entrance door or bulwark's side door?

I meant the gate in the bulwark. We always dock bow in so that has never been an issue. Another Helmsman owner in our marina has to use an extension cord when docked bow in.

 

[Tom-Jill-Lilly]

Not to beat this one to death, but GO with Doug's solution. As Doug described above, we did the same but our connection is on the right side of the door. His is on the left side.

If you park your boat in your slip stern in on starboard, and don't go anywhere, go with the power on the stern.

1) On the side vs on the stern. IMO its better on side if you travel from port to port since 80% we are bow in (short cord distance), 15% side (seems most locations the power tends to be midship or forward at the dock slots, shorter cord distance most times), and about 5% we back in (run the cord down the dock). 5% of the time I'd prefer on the stern.

where on the side exactly?...
2) Do doug's location see pics. Right of door (our location) you tend to block stairs - if you slop excess cord on the boat. Left of door it's more centered and out of the way of the door to exit vessel, but then its right there as you open the door to the pilot house.

Doug can comment if that bugs him. I doubt it.

Another reason...
3) Notice my new cord? Its black, exhaust stained. The heater exhaust is near directly in line with where the cord plugs in. On mine, dont just plug in and forget, I have to make sure the cord is not in front of the heater AND tie off the cord or restrain the cord from making it's way in the heat path. Thats easy if you remember. In this picture, we are currently at Snug Cove, Bowen Island.
A great stop on the way up north, lots of trails and a cute port, pictures setting. However, it has the highest docks we''ve experienced. A must stop someday for all PNW cruizers. However, the docks are at the level of our gunwale and you almost need a ladder to get out. Thus the picture on the outside, you see the black cord is high up out of the way of the exhaust. The exhaust wont melt the cord, but it's a bummer to see it turn black, plus you don't want to block the exhaust with anything. This is not a big issue, it's just simply have the outlet where Doug got his. Piece of cake, nothing to worry about. Anybody know what to use to remove an exhaust stain on rubber ?

 

[rslifkin]

I wonder if Helmsman would be willing to do 2 power inlets with a selector switch for which one you want to use. If they would, then I'd go for one on the bow and one on the stern, as that should give the best flexibility for cord routing in any slip (and not having to run the cord halfway down the boat).

I've got port side power inlets just aft of midship on my own boat and I semi-regularly consider relocating them. It's workable for most situations, but eats up a lot of cord just to get to the dock if we ever have to dock stbd side to and can't run the cords straight off the bow or stern to reach a pedestal.

 

[Hydraulicjump]

I am pretty sure you can ask for both a forward and stern power inlet. We have a stern on ours with a 50’ cord which works fine for our bow in, starboard tie set up with power in the dock box. We really like bow in for privacy, so when we hit a marina where the 50’ cord won’t reach, out comes the extension cord. Problem solved.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

We have two 30s on the outside of the transom. That's fine when tied to or stern in, but it means a lot of big cable has to be wound somewhere. Having lived with it, amidships seems like a fine place for a single plug in point. Bow and stern would be good too, but there is no place at the bow of our boat to mount the SmartPlugs.

 

[KDT]

"Doug's Location" appears it would block the gate from locking open???
-We are east coast so no heater exhaust to be concerned with.
-I asked Scott Helker about doing two locations but he quickly discouraged me from that idea.
- Stbd side location is specified in the order. ( that is my preferred docking side.)
-I am not too concerned at this point since I will be happy not to have to carry around a 50 amp cord like I do now.

 

[Doug_Snider]

"Doug's Location" appears it would block the gate from locking open???
-We are east coast so no heater exhaust to be concerned with.
-I asked Scott Helker about doing two locations but he quickly discouraged me from that idea.
- Stbd side location is specified in the order. ( that is my preferred docking side.)
-I am not too concerned at this point since I will be happy not to have to carry around a 50 amp cord like I do now.

Our normal mooring is bow in starboard tie. The power cord never interferes with the bulwark gate and doesn’t come anywhere near the heater exhaust. I usually give the boat end of the cord a turn around the rail stanchion to keep it from pulling too hard on the smart plug.

 

[FWT]

This is purely an academic question for me.

Anyone have a 380hp with trim tabs?

Earlier this week I had a free afternoon and used it just doing a solo jaunt on the water. Just to get out. But while out I took the time to do measurements on speed, fuel burn, and mpg at 100 RPM increments, back and forth with results averaged.

My boat was heavy with fuel, water, black water and also half a season of growth on the bottom. Far from optimum conditions but therefore also conservative results.

She tops out at 10 knots laden as she was.

Just curious. If anyone has that engine with trim tabs, and what you see WOT.

Would not change my decision not to get them. Not interested in high fuel burn speeds. Just curious.

 

[Sharpseadog]

I have the 380 HP and Bennet trim tabs. They were on the boat when I bought it from original owner. I would not opt for them if I were ordering a new boat. This boat will never plane. Anything over 8 kts just burns absurd amount of fuel.

 

[Hydraulicjump]

As an academic, I feel qualified to answer. I would never advise trim tabs with that engine. I too top out at about 10 kts fully loaded (including all the weight we have added from our stuff, full fuel and water), but topping out on my boat produces some interesting responses (including bubbles in the Racor filter), but that is for another post. With the 380 HP engine, it is my view (some will disagree) that this is basically a displacement trawler happiest at something between 7 and 8 kts.

 

[FWT]

I have the 380 HP and Bennet trim tabs. They were on the boat when I bought it from original owner. I would not opt for them if I were ordering a new boat. This boat will never plane. Anything over 8 kts just burns absurd amount of fuel.

Totally agree.

But my question is what is your speed at WOT? Trimmed.

 

[FWT]

As an academic, I feel qualified to answer. I would never advise trim tabs with that engine. I too top out at about 10 kts fully loaded (including all the weight we have added from our stuff, full fuel and water), but topping out on my boat produces some interesting responses (including bubbles in the Racor filter), but that is for another post. With the 380 HP engine, it is my view (some will disagree) that this is basically a displacement trawler happiest at something between 7 and 8 kts.

Agree with the larger perspective.

Running the speed and burn tests was about zeroing in on where I view the sweet spot to be. I’ll post more later, but leaning to 1700 RPM burning 4 gph at 7.7 knots.

That’s when I am trying to get somewhere. Just joyriding to be out for an afternoon, I can enjoy the water as easily going slower and cheaper. But a bit more to flatten the ride in beam seas.

It’s expensive to hit 9 knots. Pushing to high 9’s without tabs uses a lot of fuel for little extra speed. Hence my question. Impact of tabs above the 8’s?

 

[Nick14]

I have the 550 hp engine and 42" trim tabs. There is a discernible effect on fore-aft trim with the tabs starting at above about 10 knots. Above 11.5 knots the tabs add 1-1.5 knots of speed at any given engine rpm (to my boat's maximum of 17-17.7 knots). I didn't notice any effect on either speed or trim below 10 knots.

At speeds above 14 knots the original 36" tabs the boat came equipped with needed to be fully deployed to achieve proper fore-aft trim and running angle, thus too small. Bennett suggested and I replaced them with 42" tabs, which allow greater control over trim and achieving a good running angle without full deployment.

I doubt trim tabs would be of any meaningful use at displacement speeds. Being a semi-displacement hull the boat can and does achieve a semi-plane, but it takes more than 380 hp to do it (and of course burns more fuel than at displacement speeds).

Like the old hot rodders saying goes, 'speed costs, how fast do you want to go?'

 

[FWT]

I have the 550 hp engine and 42" trim tabs. There is a discernible effect on fore-aft trim with the tabs starting at above about 10 knots. Above 11.5 knots the tabs add 1-1.5 knots of speed at any given engine rpm (to my boat's maximum of 17-17.7 knots). I didn't notice any effect on either speed or trim below 10 knots.

At speeds above 14 knots the original 36" tabs the boat came equipped with needed to be fully deployed to achieve proper fore-aft trim and running angle, thus too small. Bennett suggested and I replaced them with 42" tabs, which allow greater control over trim and achieving a good running angle without full deployment.

I doubt trim tabs would be of any meaningful use at displacement speeds. Being a semi-displacement hull the boat can and does achieve a semi-plane, but it takes more than 380 hp to do it (and of course burns more fuel than at displacement speeds).

Like the old hot rodders saying goes, 'speed costs, how fast do you want to go?'

Thanks Nick. Helpful

What i didn’t say before was somewhere above the 8’s I see material bow rise. Leading to the question.

Tabs left flat would have some impact too compare to none installed. Seems to me.

 

[rslifkin]

Thanks Nick. Helpful

What i didn’t say before was somewhere above the 8’s I see material bow rise. Leading to the question.

Tabs left flat would have some impact too compare to none installed. Seems to me.

Quite possibly. My boat is a different hull design than an H38, but very close in size (and a little bit lighter weight). My boat will plane (and needs the tabs to do so), but even at displacement cruising speeds (about 6.5 kts for us) the big Bennet trim tabs are useful at times. Mine are 48x12". Deploying them just a bit has no effect on speed nor a large effect on trim angle at slow cruise (it might make a small difference but it's hard to tell). However, it does provide some roll damping effect and changes how the boat pitches as well, so in some sea states the tabs can be used to improve the ride a bit at slow cruise. This is with them deployed enough to go from a little above flush with the hull bottom (fully retracted position) to just a little below flush. Deploying them further doesn't improve the ride further, so I haven't paid much attention to whether doing so starts to add noticeable drag or change trim angle.

On the H38 if it has tabs they're probably worth experimenting with, but on an example that's never going to get much above hull speed the cost of installing tabs is probably not worth it. That's strictly from a cost perspective. Maintenance-wise, the only things my tabs have needed in the boat's 38 years are 2 new control switches at the helm and 1 wiring connector replaced. Mechanically they've been about as reliable as gravity.

Based both on waterline length and the observation of noticeable bow rise at 8 kts, I'd think that an efficient cruse on the H38 would be around 7 kts or a little under. Above that I expect the speed vs fuel burn curve starts to look significantly worse.