Alaskan Sea-Duction
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What Are Your Legal Rights Rendering Assistance to a Disabled Vessel?
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
ssobol
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Should countersue for the damage the rescuee's boat did to the rescuer's boat.
Then the only people who'll be happy are the lawyers on both sides.
“In the United States, a federal statute (46 U.S. Code sec. 2304) requires the master of any vessel subject to U.S. jurisdiction to “render assistance to any individual found at sea in danger of being lost,” so long as the assistance can be rendered without endangering the rescuing vessel or individuals on board.”
The above has always been my understanding and I can accept that I would increase my own risk in order to save the life of another. However, I do not tow boats merely because their owners choose to not have towing insurance or wish to not pay for a commercial tow. I leave that to the professionals who in the subject story, were only 11 miles away.
A couple years ago I was asked for a tow by a grounded sailboat on the ICW. I declined if for no other reason I’d run aground as well. I asked if they were otherwise in distress and I offered to stand by until a tow boat arrived. I could easily see how that could have turned into the same story. As I would inch toward the stranded boat a huge sport fish with a tsunami size wake would shove me into the other boat and now I’d also be grounded and damaged.
In a remote location with impending weather or potential to drift into a precarious situation? That may tip the scales in favor of “in danger of being lost.” Even then, my concern would be for the safety of people, not the boat.
The above has always been my understanding and I can accept that I would increase my own risk in order to save the life of another. However, I do not tow boats merely because their owners choose to not have towing insurance or wish to not pay for a commercial tow. I leave that to the professionals who in the subject story, were only 11 miles away.
A couple years ago I was asked for a tow by a grounded sailboat on the ICW. I declined if for no other reason I’d run aground as well. I asked if they were otherwise in distress and I offered to stand by until a tow boat arrived. I could easily see how that could have turned into the same story. As I would inch toward the stranded boat a huge sport fish with a tsunami size wake would shove me into the other boat and now I’d also be grounded and damaged.
In a remote location with impending weather or potential to drift into a precarious situation? That may tip the scales in favor of “in danger of being lost.” Even then, my concern would be for the safety of people, not the boat.
This ^^^^^
In the situation described, I would be happy to take the people aboard my boat, and get them to safety. Much, MUCH less willing to put myself and my boat in danger in order to save their boat.
Save the people? Yes. Save the boat? That's what insurance is for.
Sounds like the "good Samaritan" was simply trying to save the other owner the cost of a tow, rather than save a vessel or persons in dire distress. Assuming it was just a disabled vessel in calm conditions and not close to shore, he could have simply told them to radio for help, or offered to do so.
psneeld
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The "law" which will never be absolutely clear or applicable......
If a distance from secondary help....standing by until a reasonable ETA for that help is needed to be factored in. Leaving scene in perfect conditions with help an hour or two away might be acceptable.... if longer...standing by might be the prudent thing as if anything goes wrong after you leave.....someone may hold you accountable and that will be a huge judgement call.
If a distance from secondary help....standing by until a reasonable ETA for that help is needed to be factored in. Leaving scene in perfect conditions with help an hour or two away might be acceptable.... if longer...standing by might be the prudent thing as if anything goes wrong after you leave.....someone may hold you accountable and that will be a huge judgement call.
Hippocampus
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We were sailing across the Gulf of Maine when a steel fishing trawler called on 16 that they were sinking. They broke their back so no possibility of repair. We relayed the call to Boston CG as we approached the trawlers position. Was told by CG to not close approach to render assistance but rather be stand by and hold a nearby up wind position while keeping in touch with them. Helicopter came out and dropped pumps. Trawler lost ships vhf so we did relay as they used their handheld until CG showed up but otherwise provided no assistance. CG came out with two boats and off loaded crew. We were instructed to leave scene when CG did its thing. Was told the vessel sank. All crew rescued.
My take home is if you are within 200nm of a CG station your best move is to call CG (or local SAR if outside the US). Then follow their instructions. You clearly have an moral and international law of the sea obligation. You are most likely to be held harmless if you’re following the CGs instructions and there’s a higher likelihood of a totally benign outcome. When towing its generally best to take a fender and float a messager line down to the disabled vessel. Use that to send the floating towline. Arrange tow and go. Possibly of hulls striking each other is eliminated. Allow sufficient length so towing and towed vessel are similarly positioned on wave train. Or have tow line long enough that stretch is sufficient to prevent severe loading of the line. Reading this report I would infer assisting vessel was not fully competent. Should have followed best practice then transferred tow to marinas workboat at final approach. If he had called CG and followed their advice suspect no damage would have been done. They would have arranged commercial tow or instructed him or provided tow. No hurt no foul.
My take home is if you are within 200nm of a CG station your best move is to call CG (or local SAR if outside the US). Then follow their instructions. You clearly have an moral and international law of the sea obligation. You are most likely to be held harmless if you’re following the CGs instructions and there’s a higher likelihood of a totally benign outcome. When towing its generally best to take a fender and float a messager line down to the disabled vessel. Use that to send the floating towline. Arrange tow and go. Possibly of hulls striking each other is eliminated. Allow sufficient length so towing and towed vessel are similarly positioned on wave train. Or have tow line long enough that stretch is sufficient to prevent severe loading of the line. Reading this report I would infer assisting vessel was not fully competent. Should have followed best practice then transferred tow to marinas workboat at final approach. If he had called CG and followed their advice suspect no damage would have been done. They would have arranged commercial tow or instructed him or provided tow. No hurt no foul.
Ski in NC
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I agree that if boats bumped, the assisting vessel did not show good boat handling. No way should they have gotten close enough to bump.
But the disabled boat is showing some very low grade character to send lawyers after the assisting vessel.
Since they are in the same marina, I'd have a walk down to his dock and have a conversation with him within earshot of his dock neighbors.
That kind of behavior does not go over well in the marine community.
But the disabled boat is showing some very low grade character to send lawyers after the assisting vessel.
Since they are in the same marina, I'd have a walk down to his dock and have a conversation with him within earshot of his dock neighbors.
That kind of behavior does not go over well in the marine community.
SteveK
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"What Are Your Legal Rights Rendering Assistance to a Disabled Vessel?"
Based on what I just read, You, the rescuer do not have any legal rights. You must assist or get a fine and possible jail time.
No mention of the Good Samaritan Laws with various versions in North America
Unfortunately, maritime interpretations
"Thus, the Good Samaritan can be held liable for damages if the judge or jury finds that despite his best intentions he failed to exercise reasonable care and said failure exacerbated the situation and resulted in harm. As a consequence, the Good Samaritan Doctrine does not stand for the proposition that actions motivated by the most elemental desire by one person to help another should be applauded, no matter the outcome. Instead, the parable of the Good Samaritan has been twisted to stand for the proposition that once you stop to help someone, you better get it right or there’s a good chance you will be sued if something goes wrong."
Conclusions, Leave radios turned off rid get rid of AIS so you can claim to be oblivious of requests for assistance. Thank you lawyers!
Based on what I just read, You, the rescuer do not have any legal rights. You must assist or get a fine and possible jail time.
No mention of the Good Samaritan Laws with various versions in North America
Unfortunately, maritime interpretations
"Thus, the Good Samaritan can be held liable for damages if the judge or jury finds that despite his best intentions he failed to exercise reasonable care and said failure exacerbated the situation and resulted in harm. As a consequence, the Good Samaritan Doctrine does not stand for the proposition that actions motivated by the most elemental desire by one person to help another should be applauded, no matter the outcome. Instead, the parable of the Good Samaritan has been twisted to stand for the proposition that once you stop to help someone, you better get it right or there’s a good chance you will be sued if something goes wrong."
Conclusions, Leave radios turned off rid get rid of AIS so you can claim to be oblivious of requests for assistance. Thank you lawyers!
OP
OP
Alaskan Sea-Duction
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What I find interesting is the difference between "Good Samaritan" (Land) and the (water) law requiring assistance.
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I would have the defendant take a look at "SALCON 89" which rewards the responder for compensation as a result of resources and damage in the giving of aid. It's typically to address Salvage Rights, but could easily be applied to this situation.
I'd counter the plaintiff with a bill for the towers damage and a fee for the tow services. The value would be twice the damage claim from the plaintiff and would also ask for compensation for all legal fees.
See if the lawyer wants to pursue the matter in court.
I'd counter the plaintiff with a bill for the towers damage and a fee for the tow services. The value would be twice the damage claim from the plaintiff and would also ask for compensation for all legal fees.
See if the lawyer wants to pursue the matter in court.
ancora
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One does not need to be a member to get a tow, but you will pay through the snot locker.
Seems like that's what the guy should have done.
And usually we never get enough back on premiums to justify even having towing insurance. Another thing, you might get priority service as the guy with insurance has already paid, and you're new dollars so there's an argument for the tow guy to get you first.
ancora
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That's exactly what the Menendez brothers did after murdering their parents in Los Angeles.
psneeld
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Some people get towed enough in one year to justify a decades worth or towing membership.
Plus prioritization only takes place when it's so busy a member may have to wait excessively long for a tow...at least in the company I worked for and any other franchise worth a hoot. Otherwise it is done in the order of how to maximize efficiency. (IOW, a short run to and quick tow of a non-member might be done before going after a member...or a non-member who called and the tow was arranged then later a member calls. In that case an agreement was already made.)
Last I heard, in some areas of Sea Tow....if you call and are a non-member....the first hour is at a high rate but contains an annual membership, so you are now a member at the end of the tow if you accept and the rest of the tow is at a lower rate.
My guess would be that they called their insurance agent and reported the incident, and then the insurance company got the lawyers involved.
Of course, that is just a guess.
fletch
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Thanks for posting
Looks like there are more than a few buttheads out there. Personally I would pay for both if I were on the recieving end of a good Sam. "If the law supposes that," said Mr. Bumble, squeezing his hat emphatically in both hands, "the law is a ass — a idiot." an old guy once wrote
Looks like there are more than a few buttheads out there. Personally I would pay for both if I were on the recieving end of a good Sam. "If the law supposes that," said Mr. Bumble, squeezing his hat emphatically in both hands, "the law is a ass — a idiot." an old guy once wrote
IronZebra
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Could very well be that the individual doesn't even know they have a lawyer or that the letter was sent.
They may have just made an insurance claim and the folks from the evil empire (aka insurance industry) could have initiated the attorney as part of the claim.
O C Diver
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One of the take aways should be, if you've never towed anything with your boat, learning the ins and outs of towing shouldn't be done in real life situations. As mentioned previously, no reason to be within 20' of the other boat. If set up to good samaritan tow, the distance could be 50' with a heaving line.
The other consideration is to have a plan to stop the boat you're towing as he can't reverse his engine(s).
Ted
The other consideration is to have a plan to stop the boat you're towing as he can't reverse his engine(s).
Ted
rslifkin
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My method for passing a line across also involves backing up to the boat in question, never putting him next to me. And someone is always at the helm. That way I'm always in a position to add distance between the boats immediately if needed.
tiltrider1
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We don’t know the whole story and can not assume the rescuer was not negligent in his boat handling.
What we did learn is that the requirement to assist is very narrow in scope but open to interpretation. It was the Maritime Lawyer’s opinion that a boat broken down between Catalina and Longbeach did not evoke the CFR. If the boat was sinking the only obligation would be to stand by to receive crew.
It would be easy to interpret this to mean there is no obligation to assist on the ICW or in the Puget Sound unless actual loss of life was a risk.
What we did learn is that the requirement to assist is very narrow in scope but open to interpretation. It was the Maritime Lawyer’s opinion that a boat broken down between Catalina and Longbeach did not evoke the CFR. If the boat was sinking the only obligation would be to stand by to receive crew.
It would be easy to interpret this to mean there is no obligation to assist on the ICW or in the Puget Sound unless actual loss of life was a risk.
Lou_tribal
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I did provide assistance to a disabled boat few years ago. I gave them a tow, they are safe I am too. Considering where I was boating and the period of the year there was no chance for them to get any assistance, neither a tow nor from GC, in a reasonable timeframe. During that day I crossed 2 boats, this one included, during a full day of cruising and on that river. At that time of the year most boat were already out of water, and temp was quite cold. They could have been stuck there for the full night.
The problem here is not assistance or towing a boat, but more bringing back everything to liability, law, pursuit etc this is a mind sickness and only showing that our values are decaying.
I hope that if one day I need assistance I will be able to find one who will think beyond law or liability and will have "true" values, like honor and courage, of real mariners.
But again I am an utopian and a dreamer so I know there is no hope.
L
The problem here is not assistance or towing a boat, but more bringing back everything to liability, law, pursuit etc this is a mind sickness and only showing that our values are decaying.
I hope that if one day I need assistance I will be able to find one who will think beyond law or liability and will have "true" values, like honor and courage, of real mariners.
But again I am an utopian and a dreamer so I know there is no hope.
L
Lou_tribal
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markpierce
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kthoennes
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In my little bathtub above the dam on the Missouri River, on the SoDak side anyway, we have this, for what it's worth. However, I'm married to a lawyer and I'm sure you could drive a truck (or a really big lawsuit) through that last sentence. Our state's Good Sam law:
SDCL 20-9-4.1. Immunity from liability for emergency care--Exception.
No peace officer, conservation officer, member of any fire department, police department and their first aid, rescue or emergency squad, or any citizen acting as such as a volunteer, or any other person is liable for any civil damages as a result of their acts of commission or omission arising out of and in the course of their rendering in good faith, any emergency care and services during an emergency which is in their judgment indicated and necessary at the time. Such relief from liability for civil damages extends to the operation of any motor vehicle in connection with any such care or services. Nothing in this section grants any relief to any person causing any damage by his willful, wanton or reckless act of commission or omission.
No peace officer, conservation officer, member of any fire department, police department and their first aid, rescue or emergency squad, or any citizen acting as such as a volunteer, or any other person is liable for any civil damages as a result of their acts of commission or omission arising out of and in the course of their rendering in good faith, any emergency care and services during an emergency which is in their judgment indicated and necessary at the time. Such relief from liability for civil damages extends to the operation of any motor vehicle in connection with any such care or services. Nothing in this section grants any relief to any person causing any damage by his willful, wanton or reckless act of commission or omission.
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This above!
30 years ago, I would have, and did on several occasions tow people in. People almost always offered to pay us, at least for fuel. I always declined, and just asked them to help someone else out in the future.
In today's litigious society, I would offer to take people off, if the boat was in danger of sinking.
Unfortunate, I know, but welcome to today's society.
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