Battery conundrum

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Hi Rod,
But I will resist to the day I die the notion that a $1000 (or so) regulator setup, advertised (and advocated by many as yourself) as the cat's meow of regulators, requires this neanderthal manual "trick" to operate properly in all conditions. I'm just stubborn enough to junk the whole mess, and install the Wakespeed solution instead.

If you are using a Victron BMV series battery monitor, you could use it's relay output to control the switch automatically. That combined with the 'float' resistor on the Balmar (on a relay driven by the Victron instead of a switch) will provide an output that is triggered at 90% SOC and 50% SOC.

The output goes HI when at 90%+ SOC and LOW when 50% SOC by default and you can modify the thresholds in the programming.
 
Hi Rod,


But I will resist to the day I die the notion that a $1000 (or so) regulator setup, advertised (and advocated by many as yourself) as the cat's meow of regulators, requires this neanderthal manual "trick" to operate properly in all conditions. I'm just stubborn enough to junk the whole mess, and install the Wakespeed solution instead.

You can resist all you want but the MC-614 is a voltage regulator and simply one of the best there is, in terms of voltage only. Up until the WS500 came out there was no better or more programmable alternator regulator made.

The MC-614 is highly programmable but in order to make it work optimally for PSoC use, and dockside use, some tricks may need to be used such as forced float. You can always leave it as it is, factory default, but as we know the lawyers force it to drop to float way to early and this is why Balmar gives you options. You can also play with FbA and dial that in too. If your on-board loads are pretty consistent FbA in conjunction with other settings can work well.

But then again, I recognize the WS500 as having its OWN set of challenges, particularly for us DIY-ers that are not particularly computer savvy, or particularly interested in other than stress-free boating. And, as I believe the WS500 is relatively new to the market, and not particularly well reviewed and tested yet, this might be a deep dive for myself. Sigh...

Yes the WS500 is new, and an amazing regulator, but the owners of the company are not new to this. Rick Jones, one of the owners, was Balmar's national sales manager for many years and left durint the Balmar /CDI ownership transition..

The WS500 really the ultimate in alternator voltage regulators, but not for the faint of heart. It can do just about anything you want or need it to but it is more complex than the MC-614.. Course all these features will set you back almost twice what an MC-614 costs. We have an agreement right now with Wakespeed where they will custom program it before shipping. This makes it near plug and play.

And I guess unresolved to me at least, is just how badly am I beating up on my very expensive Fullriver AGM battery bank by operating at a high voltage (14.7V for both bulk and absorption) and low current (~1A) for six hours before my 614's fall to float (13.6V)? Maybe kind of a battery chemist's issue, isn't it?

Bulk (bv) and Absorption (av) need to be 0.1V apart. They cannot both be 14.7V.

How did you determine it needed to be 6 hours? Was this through testing the bank to see when it attained 1% to 0.5% of Ah capacity in tail current?

Again, I've yet to see AGM's dried out or ruined from what you describe about leaving the dock but we do see piles and piles of AGM batteries destroyed by chronic under charging and sulfation.

I have an Odyssey PCM2150 in my Toyota truck and the Denso alternator pumps out 14.55V +/- near constantly (in really hot temps I may see it at 14.3V). That AGM battery has over 140K miles on it and is still going strong. It was used, but decent, when I put it in there.

An 15¢ resistor, $2.00 in wire, an ON/OFF toggle switch are a lot less expensive than changing everything out to a WS500. ;)
 
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I wasn't aware of the WS500 until this thread came along, looks like a really complete solution.

An 15¢ resistor, $2.00 in wire, an ON/OFF toggle switch are a lot less expensive than changing everything out to a WS500. ;)

What do you think of controlling the float mode resistor via a relay output from a battery monitor? The Victron monitors have a configurable relay output based on SOC that could drive it.
 
Hi Rod,

Once again, thanks for your thorough and learned responses to my very likely only personal problem with these two battery states (partial SOC, and 100% SOC) that I am struggling to understand.

You can resist all you want but the MC-614 is a voltage regulator and simply one of the best there is, in terms of voltage only. Up until the WS500 came out there was no better or more programmable alternator regulator made.

Couldn't agree more. I first installed Balmar 612's (I think) on my very-similar Canoe Cove 53 with FLAs in about 2004. Worked great, lasted long time, for that application. When this project came about in 2020, the 614's are my #1 choice. And no, despite my puckishness, I doubt I'll rip 'em out for Wakespeeds. Maybe on my next boat....

Bulk (bv) and Absorption (av) need to be 0.1V apart. They cannot both be 14.7V.

Even though Fullriver specs bv and av at the same (14.7V) voltages? My 614's didn't hiccup when I set those parameters the same. Admittedly blurs the distinction between bulk and float, but to what effect, other than time at the 14.7V level?

How did you determine it needed to be 6 hours? Was this through testing the bank to see when it attained 1% to 0.5% of Ah capacity in tail current?

My house loads can approach 480AH overnight. Yeah, it's a lot, with heavy hitters being refrigeration/freezer, but also microwave, coffeemaker, and stuff like hair dryers. Our family of five lives an admittedly consumptive lifestyle when afloat! So I've set minimum bulk duration (b1C) at .3 hr (18 min), and minimum absorption voltage duration (A1C) at 6 hr. Those parameters were set to provide an adequate time at maximum alternator output (160A, assuming I've got the belt manager properly set at level 4 (bEL=4) to make sure I don't fry my alternators), yet maximize their output when charging against a depleted house bank.

I've only had two chances to observe the alternator/regulator operation via my Victron battery monitor while underway to date. Seems to work as advertised on the legs when the SOC is down near 50% to start, as the battery voltage does drop to float (13.6V) when the tail current gets to ~12A. SOC at that point is approaching 80%, after something like 4 hours underway.

I'm coming around to your admonition that I might simply have a personal problem with seeing high voltage on my batteries for a long period on those legs when I'm at 100% SOC to start. And maybe I'll think a bit more kidly about "forcing to float" my 614's. Thanks again for all.

Regards,

Pete

ps-I'm going to send you a Private Message about this stuff.
 
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