Can the Cruise Industry survive ?

[Art]

"There is no way a vast majority the world's businesses can be shut down for extensive periods [months] and still be able to reboot the economic system back into its previous functions; without years and years of unprecedented hardships and struggles."


At the end of WWII the "experts" claimed we would go back into a depression.

Millions of soldiers were returning to no jobs , factories were set for war production.

Reality was the demand was very high and consumers had boodles of cash from rationing (nothing to buy) and war bonds to cash.

And Europe needed everything and anything..

Created a pretty good long lasting boom.

Different scenario.

 

[Woodland Hills]

"There is no way a vast majority the world's businesses can be shut down for extensive periods [months] and still be able to reboot the economic system back into its previous functions; without years and years of unprecedented hardships and struggles."


At the end of WWII the "experts" claimed we would go back into a depression.

Millions of soldiers were returning to no jobs , factories were set for war production.

Reality was the demand was very high and consumers had boodles of cash from rationing (nothing to buy) and war bonds to cash.

And Europe needed everything and anything..

Created a pretty good long lasting boom.

Then China should do well since they are the manufacturing center now, like the US was in 1946. Now if everyone here wants yoga lessons and other services we will pick up too.

 

[Insequent]

So there is another cruise ship with multiple cases of coronavirus on board, this time off the NSW coast.

It came as no real surprise that it was another Princess, this time Ruby Princess!

 

[Art]

So there is another cruise ship with multiple cases of coronavirus on board, this time off the NSW coast.

It came as no real surprise that it was another Princess, this time Ruby Princess!

Once they get cruise ships off loaded and sanitized... they may need to become floating hospitals. This global health catastrophe may reach proportions not guessed at previously - I hope NOT!

 

[Insequent]

Once they get cruise ships off loaded and sanitized... they may need to become floating hospitals. This global health catastrophe may reach proportions not guessed at previously - I hope NOT!

Yes, they have little other use options in the near future.

They ought to take the opportunity to refit them now anyway. Hospital grade aircon, and meal prep/handling protocols designed and fitted. Also convert a lot of the windowless internal cabins o crew quarters so that crew isolation/quarantine is possible.

Cruise ships regularly get viruses, such a norovirus, but I don't see that they, or the public, should accept the rate of occurrence i the future. Oh, and treating the crew a bit less like slave labour can't be a bad thing either.

 

[Art]

Yes, they have little other use options in the near future.

They ought to take the opportunity to refit them now anyway. Hospital grade aircon, and meal prep/handling protocols designed and fitted. Also convert a lot of the windowless internal cabins o crew quarters so that crew isolation/quarantine is possible.

Cruise ships regularly get viruses, such a norovirus, but I don't see that they, or the public, should accept the rate of occurrence i the future. Oh, and treating the crew a bit less like slave labour can't be a bad thing either.

That - My friend is one big failing of human leaders; regarding advantage taken over other humans who do not seek to lead but rather to simply be treated fairly.

 

[FF]

"humans who do not seek to lead but rather to simply be treated fairly."


Fairly like beauty , is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Art]

"humans who do not seek to lead but rather to simply be treated fairly."


Fairly like beauty , is in the eye of the beholder.

Fairly, in the context of which I place that multi definable word, refers to a living wage, plausible living accomodations [when/where applicable], and good treatment at work by superior position workers.

That meaning of fairly can be "eyed" by intelligent, good hearted beholders and easily correctly defined.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Cruise ship arrived in Puerto Vallarta overnight. Can't imagine why. All commercial activity has stopped.

 

[Larry M]

We have friends that are on the Azamara Pursuit. They left from Argentina at a start of 14 day cruise. The trip was cut short after 7 days. They wanted to go into Valparaiso, Chile so that passengers could fly home. Chile had shut down all ports earlier this week and wouldn’t let them tie up. They were able to food and fuel. They are now headed to the Panama Canal and then to Miami. The 14 day cruise is now 21 plus days. It’s a small ship with 700 or so passengers and no virus on board.

 

[BandB]

We have friends that are on the Azamara Pursuit. They left from Argentina at a start of 14 day cruise. The trip was cut short after 7 days. They wanted to go into Valparaiso, Chile so that passengers could fly home. Chile had shut down all ports earlier this week and wouldn’t let them tie up. They were able to food and fuel. They are now headed to the Panama Canal and then to Miami. The 14 day cruise is now 21 plus days. It’s a small ship with 700 or so passengers and no virus on board.

They're still in for a long, hard time. As to no virus on board, I do hope that's true, but fear at this point it's just no known virus on board. Odds of 700 people and no virus are not good. Regardless, they're in for a nice quarantine in all likelihood.

There are a lot of US citizens stranded and in lockdown in South America.

 

[Larry M]

They're still in for a long, hard time. As to no virus on board, I do hope that's true, but fear at this point it's just no known virus on board. Odds of 700 people and no virus are not good. Regardless, they're in for a nice quarantine in all likelihood.

I’ll post what they go through when they arrive in Miami. They’re scheduled to be in Panama on March 25.

There are a lot of US citizens stranded and in lockdown in South America.

We have some cruising friends who have been in Santa Marta, Colombia for a couple of weeks. Currently they aren’t allowed to move to Cartagena even. With most countries now closed, they aren’t going anywhere soon.

Here’s a list of Caribbean countries and their status:

CARIBBEAN

19 March, 2020 – All the French islands (St Martin, St Bart’s, Guadeloupe and Martinique) are in lockdown mode which makes checking in and out problematic. The ABCs (except Bonaire), DR, St. Lucia, Mustique and Trinidad & Tobago are all closed to visiting yachts. Bonaire, Grenada and Bermuda require a 14 day quarantine. Antigua, Bahamas, Dominica and Montserrat, St. Kitts and SVG are currently open, some with restrictions.

Anguilla: CLOSED (from 20 March)
See Anguilla Biosecurity for details

Antigua and Barbuda: OPEN (with restrictions)
See Antigua and Barbuda Biosecurity for details

Aruba: CLOSED (from 16 March)
See Aruba Biosecurity for details

Bahamas: OPEN
See Bahamas Biosecurity for details

Bermuda: CLOSED (from 19 March)
See Bermuda Biosecurity for details

Bonaire: 14 DAY QUARANTINE (from 18 March)
See Bonaire Biosecurity for details

British Virgin Islands: CLOSED (from 19 March)
See BVI Biosecurity for details

Cayman Islands: OPEN
See Cayman Islands Biosecurity for details

Curacao: CLOSED (from 18 March)
See Curacao Biosecurity for details

Dominica: OPEN
See Dominica Biosecurity for details

Dominican Republic: CLOSED (from 18 March)
See DR Biosecurity for details

Grenada: 14 DAY QUARANTINE (depending on previous ports of call – from 19 March)
See Grenada Biosecurity for details

Guadeloupe: LOCKDOWN (from 18 March)
See Guadeloupe Biosecurity for details

Jamaica: OPEN
See Jamaica Biosecurity for details

Martinique: LOCKDOWN (from 18 March)
See Martinique Biosecurity for details

Montserrat: 14 DAY QUARANTINE (planned)
See Montserrat Biosecurity for details

Puerto Rico: OPEN (with restrictions)
See Puerto Rico Biosecurity for details

Saba: CLOSED

Saint Lucia: CLOSED (from 17 March)
See St. Lucia Biosecurity for details

Sint Maarten: CLOSED (from 18 March)
See Sint Maarten Biosecurity for details

Statia: CLOSED (from 16 March)
See Statia Biosecurity for details

St. Barts: LOCKDOWN (from 18 March)
See St. Barts Biosecurity for details

St. Kitts: OPEN

St. Martin: LOCKDOWN (from 18 March)
See St. Martin Biosecurity for details

St. Vincent and the Grenadines: OPEN (Mustique closed)
See SVG Biosecurity for details

Trinidad and Tobago: CLOSED (from 18 March)
See Trinidad & Tobago Biosecurity for details

Turks and Caicos: OPEN
See Turks and Caicos Biosecurity for details

US Virgin Islands: OPEN (with restrictions)
See US Virgin Islands Biosecurity for details

 

[GFC]

We have friends that are on the Azamara Pursuit. They left from Argentina at a start of 14 day cruise.

My brother and SIL were on an Azamara ship (don't know the name) that they were supposed to take a 2.5 month cruise around the world. Last week they were told the remaining 64 days of the cruise hand been cancelled and they were offloaded in Australia.

They're going to get a place to rent (Airbnb) and remain in OZ for a month or so then see about returning to the US.

 

[slowgoesit]

Carnival Cruise lines offer to make their ships available to US Gov't for hospitals . . . .

Article doesn't mention how much money they are asking for their offer to let the Gov't use ships that are useless as revenue producers for the foreseeable future . . . all out of a sense of altruism though . . . of course.





https://www.usatoday.com/story/trav...l-offered-cruise-ships-use-crisis/2876304001/

 

[DCDC]

We arrived in the Berry's Monday and are still here at anchor. When crossing the Banks we noticed one small cruise ship at anchor. Now we can see several on the horizon at night.

The Grand Bahamas Bank has an area of around 200 sq miles of water 30' - 60' deep. I checked marinetraffic.com and now there are around a dozen at anchor. Much less expensive than tied up at the Miami cruise ship terminal.

 

[BruceK]

Information about Ruby Princess which disembarked 2000+ pax in Sydney this week is mixed but it seems a couple of pax went to Hospital and someone infected flew home interstate. A pax interviewed said the was no CV onboard but also said they`d already served 6 of 14 days self isolation. Authorities have now told all pax to self isolate at home. A crew member is isolated on the ship which I think is now offshore but not far.This has potential. A lot or not much. Who knows.
Meanwhile Norwegian Jewel which departed Sydney weeks ago has been refused entry to NZ, Tahiti,Hawaii, and other places. The pax can`t stay there forever. They`re asking to return to Sydney. I don`t know if there is any CV onboard. Difficult.
Celebrity Solstice (on which we are booked) seems to north of Sydney,moving at 6.7 kts. Having come from NZ it was headed for Eden on the south NSW coast which would suggest next port Sydney, which it seems to have bypassed. We`re not intending to embark,even if that`s possible, but I do wonder what is going on. Some of these ships will need refueling and replenishing, query at sea?

 

[BandB]

Information about Ruby Princess which disembarked 2000+ pax in Sydney this week is mixed but it seems a couple of pax went to Hospital and someone infected flew home interstate. A pax interviewed said the was no CV onboard but also said they`d already served 6 of 14 days self isolation. Authorities have now told all pax to self isolate at home. A crew member is isolated on the ship which I think is now offshore but not far.This has potential. A lot or not much. Who knows.
Meanwhile Norwegian Jewel which departed Sydney weeks ago has been refused entry to NZ, Tahiti,Hawaii, and other places. The pax can`t stay there forever. They`re asking to return to Sydney. I don`t know if there is any CV onboard. Difficult.
Celebrity Solstice (on which we are booked) seems to north of Sydney,moving at 6.7 kts. Having come from NZ it was headed for Eden on the south NSW coast which would suggest next port Sydney, which it seems to have bypassed. We`re not intending to embark,even if that`s possible, but I do wonder what is going on. Some of these ships will need refueling and replenishing, query at sea?

Penny wise and pound foolish holds true over and over. Cruise lines had to know the inevitability after this started. They had to know they were gambling. There was no possibility of continuing without interruption. Yet, to get in one more cruise or two more, they risked so much. They could have protected their long term business, their reputations, their passengers, their crew. However, they chose to save the revenues on the existing cruises.

 

[O C Diver]

We arrived in the Berry's Monday and are still here at anchor. When crossing the Banks we noticed one small cruise ship at anchor. Now we can see several on the horizon at night.

The Grand Bahamas Bank has an area of around 200 sq miles of water 30' - 60' deep. I checked marinetraffic.com and now there are around a dozen at anchor. Much less expensive than tied up at the Miami cruise ship terminal.

Hmmm, that's amazing. They have anchors and know how to use them. Wonder what the plan is for hurricane season?

Ted

 

[mcboatface]

Watching Marine Traffic is fascinating. One thing I can’t figure out is why the same cruise lines have some ships at anchor, others drifting around at 6-7 knots, and others steaming along at 16 knots. All empty.

And some remain tied up in Miami and other ports. I assume some of the lines have leased berths, so keeping ships there does not add to expense.

This is just off the East coast and Bahamas. Anyone have any ideas? It’s not like they are positioning for any upcoming voyages...

 

[CaptTom]

Watching Marine Traffic is fascinating. One thing I can’t figure out is why the same cruise lines have some ships at anchor, others drifting around at 6-7 knots, and others steaming along at 16 knots. All empty.

And some remain tied up in Miami and other ports. I assume some of the lines have leased berths, so keeping ships there does not add to expense.

This is just off the East coast and Bahamas. Anyone have any ideas? It’s not like they are positioning for any upcoming voyages...

I asked the captain of a cruise ship this once. I knew it only took a couple of hours to get to our next destination, but the schedule had us underway for 9-12 hours.

He said sometimes they stop and drift, sometimes they motor slowly, sometimes they motor in circles. Obviously sea state, wind and keeping the passengers comfortable was a factor. But sometimes it's just up to the captain to decide what he feels like doing.

I suspect it's the same situation. They need to keep a certain number of crew aboard, and keep the ships' systems running. Where they do it doesn't matter much. Leased dock, anchored or underway are all options. I assume at some point they'll start rotating assets around for maintenance, crew changes or whatever.

 

[BandB]

I suspect it's the same situation. They need to keep a certain number of crew aboard, and keep the ships' systems running. Where they do it doesn't matter much. Leased dock, anchored or underway are all options. I assume at some point they'll start rotating assets around for maintenance, crew changes or whatever.

I counted 45 cruise ships in Fort Lauderdale, Miami, the Bahamas or in between last night. Mostly just sitting now.

As to crew, they have no choice but to keep much of the crew aboard as they're not legally able to leave the ships in the countries nearby. Couldn't get them home if they wanted to.

 

[OldDan1943]

I counted 45 cruise ships in Fort Lauderdale, Miami, the Bahamas or in between last night. Mostly just sitting now.

As to crew, they have no choice but to keep much of the crew aboard as they're not legally able to leave the ships in the countries nearby. Couldn't get them home if they wanted to.

BandB, depends on now the shipping articles are written.

 

[BandB]

BandB, depends on now the shipping articles are written.

There are about 40 ships with passengers still cruising. Some headed for land with uncertain outcomes. Passengers haven't had any stops as planned. Wherever they end up, many passengers will be unable to get home.

 

[Zoar]

I have detested the cruise ship industry for 50 years. For such a vast array of good reasons it would exceed the capacity of this text block to detail the copious quantity of reasons. I wish this would kill it. But we will not be that lucky. That said, this virus is highly contagious. Much more contagious than is currently understood. we must starve it by isolating ourselves. All forms of packing humans together must be curtailed for the foreseeable future.

 

[Art]

I have detested the cruise ship industry for 50 years. For such a vast array of good reasons it would exceed the capacity of this text block to detail the copious quantity of reasons. I wish this would kill it. But we will not be that lucky. That said, this virus is highly contagious. Much more contagious than is currently understood. we must starve it by isolating ourselves. All forms of packing humans together must be curtailed for the foreseeable future.

May I ask - You closely in tuned with the medical industry?

 

[OldDan1943]

These cruise ship are flagged in countries other than the US. Although the crew will suffer financially, it will be flagged counties that will suffer more because they may be forced to scrap their ships.
Many families depend upon the crew members' wages to either support or improve the standard of living of their family's
We all know, if the industry collapse it will be Trump's fault. SARCASM

 

[FF]

"All forms of packing humans together must be curtailed for the foreseeable future." #264

There goes public transportation buses, light rail, subways and the airline industry .

Perhaps high speed chair lifts or high lines with spacing can be made to carry luggage?

 

[CaptTom]

These cruise ship are flagged in countries other than the US. Although the crew will suffer financially, it will be flagged counties that will suffer more because they may be forced to scrap their ships.

The country the ship is flagged in has nothing to do with who owns the ship.

And of course, the owners are multi-national corporations, nominally headquartered somewhere with low taxes but owned by stockholders. Many operate out of Miami, even though that's not technically their "home" office.

The current pandemic is bad for the crew, bad for the owners, bad for the economy and bad for the passengers who had booked cruises.

As for scrapping, the way it's been working is the newer, bigger ships replace the older, smaller ones. Those are sold to smaller companies. This continues down the line until they're ultimately scrapped.

My best guess is more of the older ships will be scrapped, and fewer new ones built, reducing capacity to whatever point is needed once we come out of this. There will be winners and losers. As always, the bigger companies are more likely to survive.

 

[O C Diver]

Having never been on a cruise ship, do the individual cabins share air circulation (I imagine they have their own heating and cooling controls)? I'm wondering if a new requirement for air quality and separation on public transportation over 24 hours might not be coming.

Ted

 

[GFC]

I have detested the cruise ship industry for 50 years. For such a vast array of good reasons it would exceed the capacity of this text block to detail the copious quantity of reasons. I wish this would kill it. But we will not be that lucky. That said, this virus is highly contagious. Much more contagious than is currently understood. we must starve it by isolating ourselves. All forms of packing humans together must be curtailed for the foreseeable future.

Zoar, I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with you but your post makes me very curious about why you have such a strong dislike for the industry. Not trying to start an argument or anything, just curious.