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Old 01-12-2021, 07:20 PM   #61
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Hi Jeff. I do not know the name, but there is a yard in Nanaimo that is frequently praised for both their storage cost and their reasonable charges for good repair work. I don’t think there will be many so it shouldn’t be too hard to sort out. I’m in Anacortes at Pacific Marine Center and after looking at many other Anacortes options found their rates to be the most reasonable. ... $240/mo for 31’ boat with power adding less than $20/more. They store several boats in the 70’+ range. With the border closed, I do have a friend with his boat in BC and he hasn’t been able to access it in almost a year. Anacortes is a good starting point to go south to Seattle, west to the San Juan’s or north to the Gulf Islands and beyond. I like your plan.
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Old 01-13-2021, 08:13 AM   #62
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So for starters, I had no idea what it cost to insure a vessel like this, no idea how much it was to moor one, haul one, paint one, etc. So, for ME this thread has been a great source of information. All I knew were asking prices online. So, thanks to all who opined, particularly those who gave me actual numbers.

I am pleasantly surprised at how much boat one can get per 100K spent. While I am not hell-bent to spend a ton of money, I sure as hell don't want to spend too little and wind up with a vessel that I don't really enjoy operating, owning, and most importantly, living on. Then a year or two later having to try and sell it so I can upgrade to something nicer. I already have an idea of what size galley I want, and that size def pushes the price of the boat UP. Might as well get it right the first time.

I saved a fair amount of money and made a little more on the side just so I could splurge a bit during my retirement. I spent a lot of years away from home to get to this point and I invested a lot over those years. I don't need or want a Rolls but I sure don't want an old beater either. I'm 61, Soon I'll be too damn old to spend my days with a palm sander, scraped knuckles, and a bad back.

I fully get it that costs vary wildly between boats and between their owners, particularly when stuff breaks. Especially diesel stuff, turbocharger stuff, refrigeration stuff, and electronic stuff. Most of the maintenance I'll try and do myself. And when I need a pro, I'll call one. I don't want to deal with brightwork, not unless I win the lotto between now and official retirement which is two years off.

So, if I know up front that a boat is going to cost me 15K per year for moorage, bottom paint, and insurance, and average another 15K or so for "expensive unknowns", well that's a number I believe that I can plan for and I can live with.

Thank you again.
Those are probably reasonable figures, but if you buy a 100K boat that is old and a little sketchy in condition, you could spend much more than that the first year
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Old 01-13-2021, 09:21 AM   #63
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First, $500,000 is far more than you need to pay for a comfortable live-aboard for two people. For that, you could buy Fintry (photo left), whose asking price is actually $499,000.



One couple in our marina is living comfortably aboard a 35' power boat for which they paid $18,000. It runs fine, although the electronics are 25 years old. There are many nice boats on Yachtworld in the 45-60' range that won't cost $500,000. Remember that boats may depreciate some and that like cars, the biggest depreciation is when they are young. Better to buy a 15 year old boat in really good condition and if you keep it in that condition, it will not depreciate much. Many of the trawlers from the 1980-2000 period sell now for more dollars than they cost new, ignoring inflation.

Our annual costs -- Boston inner harbor marina, insurance, annual haul out and periodic above WL painting, maintenance parts, shore power, heating fuel, but not running fuel -- are around $30,000. We cruise long distances, so we haul out every year to keep the bottom clean, but if you don't mind a little growth, you can go several years between haul outs. I do almost all of the maintenance.


I also see an inconsistency -- you say you're going to sell your house and live aboard -- which we did seven years ago. You ask about "hauled and laid-up on the hard for the winter" -- if you're living aboard, you won't be on the hard. You also say you're going to be in Canada -- there's not much of Atlantic Canada or the Great Lakes where you can winter in the water.



Also keep in mind that most boats are not insulated for winter living. We wintered in Annapolis on our Swan 57 at the beginning of our circumnav and the condensation inside the hull was a real nuisance. (Fintry is heavily insulated and uses only about 1,000 gallons of diesel for heat every winter.)


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Old 01-13-2021, 09:24 AM   #64
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Those are probably reasonable figures, but if you buy a 100K boat that is old and a little sketchy in condition, you could spend much more than that the first year
Agree. Even if the boat is fundamentally sound and well cared for, the refit of electronics, battery and charging systems, cosmetics and a general “major” maintenance of engines etc can add up to many dozens of boat units. Though expensive, it still makes sense to me to correct anything but trivial findings on a survey and budget to make updates immediately instead of having a vague wish list of improvements. That way you, not the next owner, gets the full benefit. Budgeting a minimum of 20-30% above sales price for improvements and to rectify deferred maintenance issues in the first year seems a minimum when acquiring a 20-30 year old “well maintained” trawler.
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Old 01-13-2021, 10:25 AM   #65
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Circumnavigator,

I agree that 500K is a lot of money. I tossed that figure out as a maximum. The more boats I look at online, the more really nice boats I see for a lot less. But, as mentioned I do want certain "things" on this boat and a decent galley is one. It looks to me as though the galley is proportional to the length (and price) of the boat. So that skews my guess upward as to what I'll pay. I'll definitely be looking at gently used boats. Boats in very good to excellent condition. I'm too old and far too lazy for a project.

The tentative plan is to live on the boat for half of the year. Summers in Canada, somewhere between the eastern shore of Vancouver Island and the coast of BC. As far south as Seattle and as far north as we feel like going. Looks to me like a great place to rot on a yot. Then, spend the winters someplace warm, preferably with the boat hauled.

But that is not cast in stone. We could just decide to stay put. Several people have opined that they use their boats in the part of the world year-round. Which is another reason to find a boat that we can grow into and not grow weary of. IF we were to leave the boat for months, I'd prefer to have it high and dry just for peace of mind. But if that's not an option then I'll have to get spooled up on ways to leave it afloat and safe.

And if it's cold on a boat, I know that won't work with Swimbo. Her middle name is Raynaud's. Everyone hears the word "Canada" and they think of freezing temps and snow in winter. This is not the case on Vancouver Island where 40-45 degree air flows off the Pacific all winter and moderates their temps. We have colder winters in Virginia Beach than she had in Victoria.

Thanks for your input.
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Old 01-13-2021, 10:42 AM   #66
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Circumnavigator,

I agree that 500K is a lot of money. I tossed that figure out as a maximum. The more boats I look at online, the more really nice boats I see for a lot less. But, as mentioned I do want certain "things" on this boat and a decent galley is one. It looks to me as though the galley is proportional to the length (and price) of the boat. So that skews my guess upward as to what I'll pay. I'll definitely be looking at gently used boats. Boats in very good to excellent condition. I'm too old and far too lazy for a project.

The tentative plan is to live on the boat for half of the year. Summers in Canada, somewhere between the eastern shore of Vancouver Island and the coast of BC. As far south as Seattle and as far north as we feel like going. Looks to me like a great place to rot on a yot. Then, spend the winters someplace warm, preferably with the boat hauled.

But that is not cast in stone. We could just decide to stay put. Several people have opined that they use their boats in the part of the world year-round. Which is another reason to find a boat that we can grow into and not grow weary of. IF we were to leave the boat for months, I'd prefer to have it high and dry just for peace of mind. But if that's not an option then I'll have to get spooled up on ways to leave it afloat and safe.

And if it's cold on a boat, I know that won't work with Swimbo. Her middle name is Raynaud's. Everyone hears the word "Canada" and they think of freezing temps and snow in winter. This is not the case on Vancouver Island where 40-45 degree air flows off the Pacific all winter and moderates their temps. We have colder winters in Virginia Beach than she had in Victoria.

Thanks for your input.
Not being mean or sarcastic but I had to chuckle at this a bit: The more boats I look at online, the more really nice boats I see for a lot less.

Almost all boats look phenomenal online, most are a disappointment in person. But good luck with your search and wish you the best.
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Old 01-13-2021, 10:58 AM   #67
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Not being mean or sarcastic but I had to chuckle at this a bit: The more boats I look at online, the more really nice boats I see for a lot less.

Almost all boats look phenomenal online, most are a disappointment in person. But good luck with your search and wish you the best.
I have a lot of experience looking at boats on line and then visiting them. Most of the time they are much rougher in person. A good photographer can still fool my expectations. Once in a while a bad photographer gives me a pleasant surprise.
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Old 01-13-2021, 11:08 AM   #68
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Circumnavigator,

I agree that 500K is a lot of money. I tossed that figure out as a maximum. The more boats I look at online, the more really nice boats I see for a lot less. But, as mentioned I do want certain "things" on this boat and a decent galley is one. It looks to me as though the galley is proportional to the length (and price) of the boat. So that skews my guess upward as to what I'll pay. I'll definitely be looking at gently used boats. Boats in very good to excellent condition. I'm too old and far too lazy for a project.

The tentative plan is to live on the boat for half of the year. Summers in Canada, somewhere between the eastern shore of Vancouver Island and the coast of BC. As far south as Seattle and as far north as we feel like going. Looks to me like a great place to rot on a yot. Then, spend the winters someplace warm, preferably with the boat hauled.

But that is not cast in stone. We could just decide to stay put. Several people have opined that they use their boats in the part of the world year-round. Which is another reason to find a boat that we can grow into and not grow weary of. IF we were to leave the boat for months, I'd prefer to have it high and dry just for peace of mind. But if that's not an option then I'll have to get spooled up on ways to leave it afloat and safe.

And if it's cold on a boat, I know that won't work with Swimbo. Her middle name is Raynaud's. Everyone hears the word "Canada" and they think of freezing temps and snow in winter. This is not the case on Vancouver Island where 40-45 degree air flows off the Pacific all winter and moderates their temps. We have colder winters in Virginia Beach than she had in Victoria.

Thanks for your input.

Jeff,
As you can see from the 4 pages of responses, everyone on this forum has an opinion on what to look for and what to expect. The 1 thing I'd suggest is look at multiple boats and then make your list of must haves, would like to haves and don't wants. As one person said here, the annual cost will be similar to a house of the same value. The big difference is you will pay sales tax on the purchase, so keep that in mind. There is a whole forum for taxes and insurance here as well. I'm only on my 2nd large (longer than a ski boat) boat and while I do most of my own repairs, maintenance and upgrades, there are some things I want that I just can't or won't do. When I first stated looking at a trawler it was suggested I rent what I'd like 1st to get a taste. I never did but that was good advice. Before I bought my first boat I made a list of all the expected expenses as well as travel costs. I live in Colorado but have a boat in Florida. After almost 6 years I've spent less per year than expected but I was ready regardless. After 1 season of living on a boat my wife insisted on getting a condo with a dock. We did and now have our boat right out front. We have grand kids coming up and our hope is we can go out with them. We will travel only on the intra-coastal, but there are still plenty of places to go and sights to see. Good luck and keep us posted as to the progress. And BTW if you do decide on a boat, check back and be sure to ask what to look for and how best to proceed.
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Old 01-13-2021, 11:50 AM   #69
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I get it. And I know that a skilled broker and photographer can work wonders showing a lousy boat. I'm on my 7th or 8th boat, and I mess around with old Mercedes. I'm always shopping. I've seen what one guy's "Mint" means vs what I think it means.

The nice thing about boats is that most of them spend all their time alone tied up at the marina. They seldom leave the slip. That's what I want to find. Some guy who meant well but just never found the time. A guy who was fastidious and well-heeled, who's now getting divorced.

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Old 01-13-2021, 12:15 PM   #70
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I get it. And I know that a skilled broker and photographer can work wonders showing a lousy boat. I'm on my 7th or 8th boat, and I mess around with old Mercedes. I'm always shopping. I've seen what one guy's "Mint" means vs what I think it means.

The nice thing about boats is that most of them spend all their time alone tied up at the marina. They seldom leave the slip. That's what I want to find. Some guy who meant well but just never found the time. A guy who was fastidious and well-heeled, who's now getting divorced.

You can go that way, but I don't necessarily agree. Boats deteriorate more from non-use than from being used. Within reason of course, but a boat that sat idle most of it's life because the owner had no time or interest in it, is not likely to be as in good shape as one that was used often and loved and cared for. Searching for the lowest engine hours could be a mistake. Same with other vehicles, regular use keeps them in better condition.
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:02 PM   #71
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You can go that way, but I don't necessarily agree. Boats deteriorate more from non-use than from being used. Within reason of course, but a boat that sat idle most of it's life because the owner had no time or interest in it, is not likely to be as in good shape as one that was used often and loved and cared for. Searching for the lowest engine hours could be a mistake. Same with other vehicles, regular use keeps them in better condition.

I'll second this opinion. BUT I just bought a slightly used (less than 700 hours )2003 Main Ship 400. Not the prettiest because the owner stopped keeping it looking nice but continued with oil changes and regular maintenance. He kept it on a lift behind his house and used it "gently" as per the engine surveyor. I bought it for about $35k less than it was worth, BUT will probably spend double that making it what I want. To find the boat you really want try asking around at the dock when you do take a look plus post here what you might want. I posted a Wanted To Buy on a Facebook Main Ship Owners Group and a broker that is on that page saw my request and sent me a PM. If you get creative on your search you'll find what you want. When I was into buying old cars I'd put a note on a car I liked and wait for a call. This really works. I bought my condo that way for below market. You don't get what you don't ask for.
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Old 01-13-2021, 02:21 PM   #72
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Jeff,
To be direct, $100K is a project...no matter what. My advice would be to aim higher and aquire the highest quality trawler with the best maintenance and most upgrades you can get for oyur budget. It's always cheaper to buy someone elses creampuff than to pay retail and yard rates later. It will also impact your yearly costs over the long term if you can buy a well found boat and commit the dollars to keep it maintained.

I personally think $300K is a sweet spot for used trawlers. That puts you in an older Nordhavn 46, a large DeFever 60 flush deck with a dining table and a ballroom for an upper deck or a "bristol" condition Kadey Krogen 42 and lots and lots of option in-between. Depending on your mission (PNW and Alaska for two, solo ocean crossings or a condo in Miami with entertaining space for days).

Lastly, trawler prices seem to be high at the moment. Call it the COVID "what am I doing with my life if I can't travel" effect but people I'm helping to buy an entry level trawler are struggling to find anything at all, even basket cases in the sub-$100K market.
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Old 01-13-2021, 07:07 PM   #73
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I agree with that assessment on price. If I were buying today, 300 would probably be my limit. But in two years, I'm confident that it will be higher. I'm not making this move until then. I am just trying to educate myself ahead of time to minimize mistakes.

I really like Selene 43's. Their layout really appeals to me, though I am sure that there are a dozen other makes that would also fit the bill. I have seen several that appear to be in fine shape, well equipped, and well maintained for less than 400k. Raise that bar to 500 and the options explode.
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