Is this legit to do?

[SILENTKNIGHT]

Buying someones survey

A potential buyers deal didn't go through due to his finance issue. I told the broker to tell him i would buy his survey from him? Is this good practice? , the survey was just done. I plan to travel to location this Weekend. The broker told me the following.

Before you make the trip there are a few things I need to cover.

Seller is holding firm on his asking price . When we first listed the boat we had two full price offers the first day so he feels confident that will happen again as soon as we put the boat back on the market.

As you know we just had the boat surveyed and the the major survey items are:

A 6" diameter area around the bridge table is soft. Seller is having this fixed.

Surveyor noted that there was some moisture in the port side walkway. However he sounded it out and it is solid. His comment was that there are hoses running underneath along the area and the moisture reading probably came from there. We had a fiberglass guy look at it today and he found nothing wrong. He said there is nothing to fix.

During the sea trial engine RPMs reached 3200 and not the 3300 limit. Seller's mechanic said that he adjusted the RPMs down when he calibrated the upper and lower tachs.

Minor moisture in one stringer. Surveyor said sounded out solid and nothing to worry about.

Engine surveyor found a raw water leak in the generator water pump, a slight exhaust leak and air filter needs replacing. Owner is having all of this fixed.

Owner has had the 1000 service done, installed $10,000 of Raymarine electronics and just had the boat detailed so it shows very well.

I would rate the boat above average for it's age and is worth the trip to take a look at it.

I'll know later tonight whether or not the current buyer is going forward and will let you know what happens as soon as I know.

Also, just so you know, I have quite a list of people who inquired about the boat when it was under contract who want to look at if the current deal falls through. I haven't contacted anyone yet.

 

[Shrew]

It is reasonable to offer to purchase the survey from the previous buyer who backed out. Whether he complies is another thing, though I would think he would want to recover his expenses since he walked away.

 

[DavidM]

What is the question?

Is it ok for the broker to give you a summary of the surveyor's findings and what the seller is doing about them- yes, particularly since the deal seems to have fallen through due to financing issues.

Is it ok to buy the survey. Maybe. If the agreement between the surveyor and the buyer prohibits it- no. If there is no agreement- yes. In general works for such as a survey are the property of the purchaser unless there is an agreement otherwise.

David

 

[psneeld]

Last 2 surveys of mine I am pretty sure specifically prohibited it.


Here is the first sentence in my last survey....


"This Time Sensitive Document was prepared exclusively for the CLIENT. Any reproduction, use or resale of this document by individuals other than named above or their designates is not supported by MARINE SURVEYOR XXXXXXXX."


But contact with the surveyor and for a reasonable price may allow it.

 

[SILENTKNIGHT]

OK that sounds very reasonable and accurate....

 

[moparharn]

If you are going to look at the boat you should get a commitment from the broker that it is yours for first right of refusal until you complete your time looking over the boat (one or two days). Once you have entered into a contract, you then need to handle survey ,sea trial, and other reports such as oils etc. Once the contract is signed I would contact the surveyor and ask what it would cost to get the survey put into your name. Buying a survey from a potential buyer does not get the survey in your name. Having it in your name may be a requirement for your insurance, it also may not. You should investigate whether or not you need to have it in your name, which will require the surveyor, not the past client. This is my understanding of it. I would also understand any dynamics in the relationship between the seller, broker, surveyor, and past potential buyer. That survey needs to be completely unbiased and not subject to any "quickies", or "yeah he is a friend of mine" situations. I would ask if you could speak to the previous buyer. The last survey I had done was by a person who was the "gold standard" in his area, and I had his survey for a prior buyer who did not follow through. He was clearly cozy with the broker and knew in advance the crap I was in for in the sea trial and tried to soft sell it to me all while shrugging his shoulders to the broker. This "I have a million other buyers for this boat if you don't bend a knee" stuff does not flush with me. I WILL NOT be pressured into a purchase. Never give up your right to be thorough, and always find out who is cozy with whom. My advice- take it or throw it in the garbage. Good luck.

 

[Larry M]

I would find out who the surveyor was first. When we were buying Hobo, the surveyor recommended had also done the the sellers insurance surveys and pre-purchase. A conflict of interest to me.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

If I owned a survey and the deal fell through that makes the survey basically worthless. If I could get 50% for it I would sell in a heartbeat.

But would I buy one? Its outdated immediately, 50% savings on a survey isn't much. Why bother? It seems you have pretty good access to the major facts anyway.

pete

 

[O C Diver]

Depending on the price, nothing wrong with buying a recent survey. If he refuses, the broker will have the name of the surveyor and you should be able to have him survey the boat for a much reduced price as he has done it recently. The later is what I did. Surveyor came out, we went over the boat, he changed a few things in the survey, and put my name on it.

As for a list of other buyers lined up, well not going to say the broker is lying, anymore than they normally do...

Ted

 

[Jorgeinseal]

Why buy the survey if you have not seen the boat? Save that $$ for after if you're still interested.

 

[SILENTKNIGHT]

Mainships are very hot on the market and flying off the charts... That are in above average condition are really going... Not even 2 weeks and they are gone... I've been doing a lot of research for the past 4 months... I plan to 4 for the past buyer 50% of his survey cost just to use it as a backup...I plan On getting some recommendations for the Punta gorda Florida area, And paying for my own surveys... I think it's really good to compare my own survey to what was just done....
If all goes well,
This mainship will then be Taken up to Long Island with a captain that I hire...

 

[Solly]

Would you want the survey just for information or to use for finance or insurance ?
Just wondering if it would be valid or acceptable if done for somebody else.

I'm just curious, no experience with a survey.

 

[Prospective]

Would you want the survey just for information or to use for finance or insurance ?
Just wondering if it would be valid or acceptable if done for somebody else.

I'm just curious, no experience with a survey.

Just had a friend who was the seller go thru this. First sale fell thru and second buyer came along within weeks. He was willing to accept this first buyers survey and save some money. But bank and insurance wanted him to get his own. So boat had to be re-surveyed.

 

[guy with a boat]

You can use the earlier survey for information, but if you want it to be yours (in your name, and have the surveyor willing to discuss it), you have to buy it from the surveyor. He would likely charge you a reduced fee and make it yours. All other conditions mentioned above (unbiased, qualified surveyor, etc) still apply. The point is that the previous buyer can sell the piece of paper, but can’t sell the surveyor’s work or backing of his work.

 

[Shrew]

Just had a friend who was the seller go thru this. First sale fell thru and second buyer came along within weeks. He was willing to accept this first buyers survey and save some money. But bank and insurance wanted him to get his own. So boat had to be re-surveyed.

There is a difference between a Purchase Survey and an Insurance Survey. The latter is usually less money. You could use the previous buyer's purchase survey to make your decision, then have an insurance survey done to satisfy the insurance company.

 

[MYTraveler]

Last 2 surveys of mine I am pretty sure specifically prohibited it.


Here is the first sentence in my last survey....


"This Time Sensitive Document was prepared exclusively for the CLIENT. Any reproduction, use or resale of this document by individuals other than named above or their designates is not supported by MARINE SURVEYOR XXXXXXXX."


But contact with the surveyor and for a reasonable price may allow it.

I don't interpret that language as a prohibition of sale. Instead, the "not supported" part means no one but the original client can rely on the survey. If the seller has a copy (and it sounds like he does), I would ask for a copy. Since he is quoting from it, he should be willing to share the whole thing. No point in paying him for the survey.

 

[slowgoesit]

If you are serious about the boat, enter into a sales contract, contingent on acceptable survey (both hull and drive train if you desire), sea trial, personal inspection, obtaining suitable insurance, moorage, and financing if you are financing.

Get you own survey, from your own surveyor, one that YOU pick. Paying someone to to the same survey they just did is a joke. If the Surveyor saying HE owns the the survey and you cannot sell to anyone else, that is his prerogative, but in that case, I would find another surveyor.

Ask to see some recent surveys he has done on similar boats. Redacted to hide boat ID and client is acceptable. I would just want to see what kind of attention to detail he has. If he refuses, or is unable to provide surveys, find another surveyor.

You might also want to consider an independent engine/drive train surveyor.

Hope it all works out for you!

 

[psneeld]

I don't interpret that language as a prohibition of sale. Instead, the "not supported" part means no one but the original client can rely on the survey. If the seller has a copy (and it sounds like he does), I would ask for a copy. Since he is quoting from it, he should be willing to share the whole thing. No point in paying him for the survey.

It is a vague statement I think.... but I have heard on more than one occasion that they are for the "sole use" of the client....again vague...


I left this off of the last post...the top line still leads me to believe selling a survey, even giving it away without permission is somehow against something.


CONTENTS IN THIS REPORT BELONGS EXCLUSIVELY TO
MARINE SURVEYOR FLORIDA LLC
This Time Sensitive Document was prepared exclusively for the CLIENT. Any reproduction,
use or resale of this document by individuals other than named above or their designates is not
supported by MARINE SURVEYOR FLORIDA LLC

 

[Portage_Bay]

OP mentions traveling to see the boat. The only reason I would buy a survey from a buyer who passed on the boat is to maybe avoid traveling to see a boat that wouldn't pass my inspection. That said having tried to buy a boat long distance I'd never do that again unless it's something truly unique. There's nothing unique about a Mainship, there are lots of them around. In the end I'm going to want my own per-purchase survey, done in my name. The insurer will likely demand that as well. And if I'm financing the lender will also.



What the broker says about buyers lined up to pay full price may or may not be true. It doesn't matter to me. I only care if the asking price or negotiated prices is worth to me. And, it's just my personality, I don't usually respond well to a seller or broker putting pressure on me. I learned a long time ago that if someone has to tell me it's a good deal. It's not a good deal.

 

[markbarendt]

Yes, it is ok to use the survey done by a previous buyer. I sold a survey last year and the next buyer in line used it.

The only caveat I have after reading the OP is that the broker seems to say 'we' had it surveyed.

That 'we' may be a slip of language so... IDK, but, if the survey was done for the broker rather than for the other buyer, that's problematic.

 

[fgarriso]

Most banks and insurance companies will not accept surveys that are not in your name.

 

[BandB]

Typically the survey is still owned by the surveyor and just supplied to the buyer for their use and prohibited from being sold to anyone else but the only way of knowing for sure is to see the survey.

Meanwhile, do what you need to do to decide if interested, then make an offer contingent on survey. At that point choose your surveyor and proceed. There are things from the first survey to be worked on that still need checking and the BS about the tachometer makes no sense to me. Plus a surveyor shouldn't depend on the boat's tachometer.

 

[Jeff F]

Just had a friend who was the seller go thru this. First sale fell thru and second buyer came along within weeks. He was willing to accept this first buyers survey and save some money. But bank and insurance wanted him to get his own. So boat had to be re-surveyed.

Yep. You have to think about the value of the previous survey. If you need to have another survey done to satisfy third parties the existing one isn't worth much to you.

I bought my current boat paying cash and not needing a survey to satisfy myself on condition. The owner had a two year old survey done for his insurance company, and when I shared it with my insurer prior to purchase they accepted it. Had they not I would have had to commission a new survey. If you can get a copy, send it off to your insurer/bank first thing to see if it will satisfy them.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Last 2 surveys of mine I am pretty sure specifically prohibited it.

Here is the first sentence in my last survey....

"This Time Sensitive Document was prepared exclusively for the CLIENT. Any reproduction, use or resale of this document by individuals other than named above or their designates is not supported by MARINE SURVEYOR XXXXXXXX."


But contact with the surveyor and for a reasonable price may allow it.

That was my experience in 2016 also. Previous deal failed financing. The surveyor insisted on a cursory "confirmation" in-water survey; pretty much: "Yeah, it's still afloat." for $400.

 

[PPandE]

Personally, I would never buy a boat without having my own survey done by my surveyor.

Having said that, I just paid half price for a survey of an out of town boat in which a sale fell through. Turns out it saved me a trip to south florida to see a boat that I didn't want. Still shopping....

 

[BruceK]

The problem with using someone else`s survey: no contract between you and the surveyor. If he misses something,or otherwise messes up, you have no comeback, he owes you no responsibility. Which is why insurers and financiers( who may have a special reliance entitlement) tell you to get your own.

If you believe the broker, the OP already has the essential information. If that`s ok, proceed to survey. After seeing the boat.

 

[Flatswing]

Don’t over think this. Go look at the boat. You already know most of the defects from the previous buyer’s survey summary. Every seller is holding out for full price - until they aren’t.
If you like the boat, offer what you think it is worth to you - subject to survey & sea trial.
If your offer is accepted, you either get your own survey, or pay the previous buyer no more than 50% for the 1st buyer’s survey if it is recent, and (more importantly) is acceptable to your insurance Co. This happens all the time. Reputable surveyors have no business arrangement with, & therefore no liability to the second buyer, but the second buyer gets a low cost quality survey which can save $1-2K for a 50’ boat.

 

[SILENTKNIGHT]

Flatswing, that's good response... i can tell your a shoot from the hip guy...
I'm flying there tomorrow, Im going to ask to buy the survey @50% and i believe i will ask for a ride considering the boat is in water in backyard of seller.

I will then aske the surveyor to amend the reports with my name and document the repaired items. I will have that same survey come back for a quick sea trial to evaluate performance.

 

[Prospective]

There is a difference between a Purchase Survey and an Insurance Survey. The latter is usually less money. You could use the previous buyer's purchase survey to make your decision, then have an insurance survey done to satisfy the insurance company.

In the case of my example, the purchaser also needed bank financing and the bank wouldn't take the old survey either.

 

[psneeld]

I will be interested to hear how things actually go.....