Big insurance increase from Geico/Boat US

[BandB]

Lightning, storm wind/waves, failure from factory defects in hoses/seacocks/electrical components, electric fires in general, other people collide, vandalism....etc...etc...

All can be mitigated but to what degree and what would still be the outcome..... even on land in the middle of nowhere it would be relatively safe there.....but when on the water, too many factors creep up with you not able to control them.

Sure a lot of boaters go through a lifetime of no claims and just minor issues....but who is gonna bet serious money on sometimes near uncontrollable events?

You can mitigate but you can not even approach statistical zero or any type zero and even if the risk is 1% most of us don't want to risk that.

You own a house in a gated community with security, do you then go without insurance?

I've seen storms and even hurricanes do little damage but spin off small tornadoes and they take out one house and don't touch the surrounding houses or one small section of docks and miss all others. Lightning could strike anywhere at anytime.

I've owned boats for 38 years and never filed a claim. Several boats now. Yet, I'll never go uninsured and glad to share with those who have had claims. I know a couple on this forum who I would consider very diligent and careful and safe but have had claims and I have no problem sharing indirectly some of that incurred expense.

All insurance is shared risk-property, health and life are. I guess centuries ago and prior to insurance it was left to neighbors to pitch in and help, but they didn't always come through and people lost everything. I prefer insurance as the answer.

 

[OldDan1943]

Realize insurance companies are into making money too. They have to pay their stock holders and all the employees.
I doubt if the CEO etc of Geico live in a trailer park.

 

[Lepke]

Another way to beat the cost of insurance is post a bond big enough to cover the cost of damage to others.

 

[Alaskaflyer]

Another way to beat the cost of insurance is post a bond big enough to cover the cost of damage to others.

But does the bond come with the duty to defend, as an insurance contract does?

Honestly asking, I have no idea.

 

[O C Diver]

For the cost of the bond, you could invest the money better and pay the insurance premium annually from the returns.

Ted

 

[Scooby5959]

I don’t know about other states here in Washington you can self insure , it’s just a form that you fill out and somehow or another they attach it to one of your investments. so basically just put a hold on the funds in the amount of the minimum required insurance, there are a lot of companies probably most that are self insured ,They have a policy to cover catastrophic stuff ,I don’t know what you call it catastrophic policy, would be pointless for a boat because you’re not required to carry insurance ,only way being self-insured helps is when insurance is mandated ,I thought about doing it but I only have one car with liability insurance ,but it would save me $1000 a year I guess ,but I keep the car insured State Farm , you can attach it to some kind of investment, there is no loss not having your money invested,You can invest it

 

[Scooby5959]

I have no problem with you guys buying tons of insurance ,if it helps you sleep better at night knowing you’re helping pay for those fancy buildings downtown Y knot

 

[kthoennes]

But does the bond come with the duty to defend, as an insurance contract does?

Honestly asking, I have no idea.

No, it doesn't, or normally wouldn't. (Not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I happen to be married to an insurance company defense attorney.)

 

[Seevee]

Insurance is nothing more than a risk/benefit calculation. Most of us would come out way ahead without insurance if we were just average. And if we're pro aggressive to minimize risk we can really come out better. Just the stats.


The issue for a lot of folks is that they really think that they will be the .1% that will have a catastrophic accident killing many and end up with monstrous law suits... or just don't want to write the check when the boat sinks when the likelihood is less that one in 1000 year.


As for liability... overall, it's pretty cheap, but without could be a check that we just couldn't afford to write, even if it was once in a 10,000 year chance.

 

[BandB]

I have no problem with you guys buying tons of insurance ,if it helps you sleep better at night knowing you’re helping pay for those fancy buildings downtown Y knot

Can you afford to pay full damages if you collide with my boat, one person dies, and 5000 gallons of diesel leak in a protected area? If so, forget insurance. If not, get it. You should be required by law to have it, just like auto.

 

[O C Diver]

I have no problem with you guys buying tons of insurance ,if it helps you sleep better at night knowing you’re helping pay for those fancy buildings downtown Y knot

Yes it does help me sleep comfortably at night. It all but eliminates the worry that a mistake (my fault or not) will wipe out the comfortable life style that I and my wife work 40 years to attain. I see this no differently than insurance on my house, automobile, health insurance, and annual checkups.

Ted

 

[Scooby5959]

You have it backwards

Can you afford to pay full damages if you collide with my boat, one person dies, and 5000 gallons of diesel leak in a protected area? If so, forget insurance. If not, get it. You should be required by law to have it, just like auto.

I have a seven knot Boat , it hardly a threat to you or your ,likelihood of colliding with anybody traveling seven knots or less is infinitesimal, you think it should be required that I have insurance to subsidize insurance for you, if you’re worried about having your boat damaged then get insurance ,don’t look to me the subsidize insurance for you .essentially what happens with mandated Insurance for automobiles ,people that don’t get insurance and drive anyways rarely pay any penalties when involved in an accident ,lawyers don’t sue people that don’t have money there’s nothing in it for them ,no pockets to raid ,Lawyers don’t work for free , there needs to be a payday ,You could pay a lawyer out of your pocket ,that would just cost you more money and accomplish very little ,same reason lawyers don’t waste their time ,Some insurance companies quit writing policies for large amounts because it is a target for lawyers. You can’t get enough insurance for greedy lawyers and people that feel they are entitled,I could care less what you do however ,if anybody is a hazard it is you ,that’s why I say you have it backwards ,35 to 45 knot Boat carrying 6000 gallons of fuel now that’s a hazard, I should campaign for a $10 a gallon carbon tax ,for any boat that burns more than 2 gallons an hour ,for polluting the water I drink at the the air I breathe this is your logic and the sword you carry cuts both ways , now that everybody knows you have deep pockets and a big insurance policy ,you might have people paying attention waiting for you to slip up ,so they can profit from that: just saying:

 

[Scooby5959]

There are no guarantees

Yes it does help me sleep comfortably at night. It all but eliminates the worry that a mistake (my fault or not) will wipe out the comfortable life style that I and my wife work 40 years to attain. I see this no differently than insurance on my house, automobile, health insurance, and annual checkups.

Ted

There are no guarantees ,are you sure you have yourself covered ,are you sure you have enough insurance, how much is enough ,the world is full of hazards can you ever really protect yourself from the wolfs ,wolfs smell blood and fat insurance policies people with large bank accounts beware of the wolfs ,I hope you sleep well tonight

 

[BruceK]

There are no guarantees ,are you sure you have yourself covered ,are you sure you have enough insurance, how much is enough ,the world is full of hazards can you ever really protect yourself from the wolfs ,wolfs smell blood and fat insurance policies people with large bank accounts beware of the wolfs ,I hope you sleep well tonight

Isn`t the plural of "wolf",wolves?

 

[BandB]

Isn`t the plural of "wolf",wolves?

Wifey B: Ok, that woke me up. Shouldn't you teach him some punctuation before trying to get into plurals? :lol:

 

[Scooby5959]

Can you afford to pay full damages if you collide with my boat, one person dies, and 5000 gallons of diesel leak in a protected area? If so, forget insurance. If not, get it. You should be required by law to have it, just like auto.

There are some very good comments on this form mostly from old school trawler folks,But some of them seem to be living in a parallel universe, I reject your reality and substitute my own

 

[O C Diver]

There are no guarantees ,are you sure you have yourself covered ,are you sure you have enough insurance, how much is enough ,the world is full of hazards can you ever really protect yourself from the wolfs ,wolfs smell blood and fat insurance policies people with large bank accounts beware of the wolfs ,I hope you sleep well tonight

I do sleep well.

I find risk management to be far more reassuring than pretending it doesn't exist or I can't be hurt.

Ted

 

[Scooby5959]

It’s not necessary for me to prove my point m,I have no interest in that only to offer a different perspective .fraud is rampant in the insurance game .I know of a company that has a full-time private investigator on staff to try to protect themselves .a lot of people see the value in insurance it is a very large industry .mostly fueled by mandatory requirements a big money racket .I was involved in two very high-risk businesses so I probably have A unique perspective on things .I wish everybody the best .and good luck

 

[twistedtree]

It’s not necessary for me to prove my point m,I have no interest in that only to offer a different perspective .fraud is rampant in the insurance game .I know of a company that has a full-time private investigator on staff to try to protect themselves .a lot of people see the value in insurance it is a very large industry .mostly fueled by mandatory requirements a big money racket .I was involved in two very high-risk businesses so I probably have A unique perspective on things .I wish everybody the best .and good luck

If you should strike a log and sink your boat, will you take responsibility and pay the costs of the salvage and clean up of the mess? Or will your boat turn out like so many as an abandoned wreck on the shore line, left for others to deal with?


If your boat should catch fire and sink at the dock, and burn the boat next you, will you take responsibility and pay the cost of the salvage and clean up, and replacement of the boat that yours destroyed?


If your pockets are deep enough to cover your full responsibility in circumstances like this and not ruin your life, then you are well suited to self-insure. For most of us, something like this would be financially ruining. And that's just a selfish view of it from your perspective. You have a responsibility to the rest of us to clean up your mess and make good for damage you cause. People should not be allowed to just walk away from such a mess simply because they can't afford to be responsible for their actions. That's why I agree with BandB that liability and salvage insurance be mandatory for boating, and any other activity that has the potential to cause a lot of harm and damage to other people and property. That covers the damage you can do to others, and ensures that you can and will make good on your responsibilities. As for loss of you own property, well, that's your decision because it only impacts you.



So far your argument has been that none of this will happen to you because you are careful. Well, if nothing bad has ever happened to you, then you have led a much more charmed life than most of us. If there is anything I've learned in life, it's that shirt happens.

 

[O C Diver]

If you should strike a log and sink your boat, will you take responsibility and pay the costs of the salvage and clean up of the mess? Or will your boat turn out like so many as an abandoned wreck on the shore line, left for others to deal with?


If your boat should catch fire and sink at the dock, and burn the boat next you, will you take responsibility and pay the cost of the salvage and clean up, and replacement of the boat that yours destroyed?


If your pockets are deep enough to cover your full responsibility in circumstances like this and not ruin your life, then you are well suited to self-insure. For most of us, something like this would be financially ruining. And that's just a selfish view of it from your perspective. You have a responsibility to the rest of us to clean up your mess and make good for damage you cause. People should not be allowed to just walk away from such a mess simply because they can't afford to be responsible for their actions. That's why I agree with BandB that liability and salvage insurance be mandatory for boating, and any other activity that has the potential to cause a lot of harm and damage to other people and property. That covers the damage you can do to others, and ensures that you can and will make good on your responsibilities. As for loss of you own property, well, that's your decision because it only impacts you.



So far your argument has been that none of this will happen to you because you are careful. Well, if nothing bad has ever happened to you, then you have led a much more charmed life than most of us. If there is anything I've learned in life, it's that shirt happens.

Totally agree and well written!

Ted

 

[Scooby5959]

No shirt just doesn’t happen there are a whole lot of irresponsible people with insurance ,I could explain why , would fall on deaf ears ,you can’t make people hear what they don’t want to hear ,traveling 40 knots in a 65 foot boat carrying 5000 gallons of fuel insurance or not doesn’t sound too responsible to me , Buy an insurance policy and then install a giant battery bank with wiring running everywhere ,don’t have to worry about fire I’ve got insurance

 

[Scooby5959]

Sitting on the side of the road in your car and getting hit totally preventable,Dog bites someone totally preventable,Marriage ending up in divorce totally preventable,House gets damaged in a windstorm totally Preventable , boat catches fire totally preventable,Boat sinks totally preventable, Hit a log Traveling 40 knots in a 65 foot boat totally preventable,Buying insurance policy to relieve yourself of those burdens totally irresponsible, I wonder if you can buy an insurance policy to cover divorces

 

[rslifkin]

Sitting on the side of the road in your car and getting hit totally preventable,Dog bites someone totally preventable,Marriage ending up in divorce totally preventable,House gets damaged in a windstorm totally Preventable , boat catches fire totally preventable,Boat sinks totally preventable, Hit a log Traveling 40 knots in a 65 foot boat totally preventable,Buying insurance policy to relieve yourself of those burdens totally irresponsible, I wonder if you can buy an insurance policy to cover divorces

What happens when you're away from the boat and it gets hit by lightning, starting a fire and burning a neighboring boat? That's pretty non-preventable.

Plain and simple, if you think all risks in life are completely preventable, then I seriously hope I (and my boat) never end up anywhere near you and your dangerous, misinformed, irresponsible, borderline reckless opinions, ideas, etc.

 

[Scooby5959]

Everything is preventable ,just depends what you’re willing to do ,if lightning is something that occurs often putting your boat in a covered slip with metal roofing would prevent that ,lightning rod ,likelihood of a boat catching fire do the lightning ,I’ve never heard of it anything is possible ,just like everything is preventable there is a reason why some people have never had an insurance claim ,why are they just lucky ,I don’t think so. I don’t know why do you even care just buy some insurance ,it will relieve you of all responsibility and you’ll sleep like a baby ,whether I buy insurance or not it’s not gonna have a affect on you .whether your neighbor buys insurance or not is his business ,if you’re worried buy insurance ,they have Insurance that would cover for damages caused by uninsured people ,you just think I should pay it for you ,will never agree on the subject just like the person that is irresponsible, doesn’t care to practice prevention

 

[BandB]

Everything is preventable ,just depends what you’re willing to do ,if lightning is something that occurs often putting your boat in a covered slip with metal roofing would prevent that ,lightning rod ,likelihood of a boat catching fire do the lightning ,I’ve never heard of it anything is possible ,just like everything is preventable there is a reason why some people have never had an insurance claim ,why are they just lucky ,I don’t think so. I don’t know why do you even care just buy some insurance ,it will relieve you of all responsibility and you’ll sleep like a baby ,whether I buy insurance or not it’s not gonna have a affect on you .whether your neighbor buys insurance or not is his business ,if you’re worried buy insurance ,they have Insurance that would cover for damages caused by uninsured people ,you just think I should pay it for you ,will never agree on the subject just like the person that is irresponsible, doesn’t care to practice prevention

So, after all your ranting, a few simple yes or no questions.

1. Do you have auto insurance?
2. Do you have insurance on your boat?
3. Do you have health insurance?
4. Do you have insurance on your home?
5. Do you have life insurance?

And, for the record, my wife and I have all the above.

 

[rslifkin]

Realistically, I don't care if you have insurance to cover damage to your own stuff. But I do care that you have liability insurance. So if something bad does happen (no matter how hard you've tried to prevent it), at least damage that occurs to anyone else's stuff is covered. Thinking that nothing will happen and that if it does, someone else's insurance will pick up the tab for their boat because you're uninsured is pretty damn selfish and irresponsible.

 

[Scooby5959]

Oh by the way most Marina’s if not all of them privately owned ,are self-insured carry a policy for a catastrophe and that’s about it ,a state owned facility is exempt from lawsuits ,maybe you could do something about that ,kind of doubt it,When a Marina ask for your insurance ,ask them for there’s the look on there face will be priceless

 

[syjos]

Just received my Boat US/Geico policy renewal. Went up 17%.

It went down 21% a few years ago when Boat US switched to Geico.

Have been claim free for over 30 years with Boat US - 21 years with current boat. Deductible goes down by 10% every year I'm claim free. At 10 years - no deductible!

The deductible policy has changed for the better with shorter no claim period for zero deductible.

 

[Scooby5959]

So, after all your ranting, a few simple yes or no questions.

1. Do you have auto insurance?
2. Do you have insurance on your boat?
3. Do you have health insurance?
4. Do you have insurance on your home?
5. Do you have life insurance?

And, for the record, my wife and I have all the above.

1.Yes mandated one car 2,Currently stored on private property don’t need it3,Medicare supplemental insurance cost effective otherwise I would have it 4, no built it myself insurance not necessary ,nothing can possibly happen to it ,that can’t be easily remedied ,since I physically built it myself I know it can withstand a very bad storm ,not necessary 5,No not necessary Hard to spend money when your dead ,Like I said if you got deep pockets by all the insurance iyou want ,I don’t care you know what Forrest Gump said stupid is what stupid does, even my ranting is preventable ,all I have to do is quit reading your ranting and then I won’t have the urge to

 

[psneeld]

Deaf ears seems to be a 2 way street here.

As a trained accident investigator, it is true the current mantra is that most incidents are preventable, but it is also taught that the end user isn't always responsible for the incident.

So while some here have lots of experience with hazardous professions ( so do I).... I also have extensive accident investigation training and thinking one can prevent all hazards, all the time is a pipe dream.