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Old 08-21-2019, 01:24 AM   #21
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Hey Dave:


Were the folks at TAD able to recommend a good mechanical surveyor in Toronto for you?


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Old 08-21-2019, 11:38 AM   #22
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Hey Dave:


Were the folks at TAD able to recommend a good mechanical surveyor in Toronto for you?


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Mrs. Trombley
Hi Miz, I wish I could say that I ended up going down that route, but I didn't. The owner went ahead and contacted his guy, and I decided to just go with that. I wish I could have been there to ask 1001 questions, but I couldn't. He gave her a look, but I doubt it was anything more than cursory. He didn't even charge for the visit.

While I wish it had been more thorough, so far I haven't encountered any symptoms that point to any problems at all, so I don't think I'm going to press the issue any further. I tend to be suspicious about these things, but I'm coming to the conclusion that she really is in good shape.

I think I'd like to hire a really knowledgeable engineer type to spend a day with me in my engine room and just teach me everything I can absorb. That will come later though. Next week, I hope to be heading out to Toronto to pick her up.

I'm really starting to get excited.
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Old 08-21-2019, 01:40 PM   #23
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During the survey and sea trial, we did run the engine through it's paces. We took her through the RPM range and compared oil pressure, temperature, and boat speeds with no major issues found. There is a discrepancy between actual RPMs and what is displayed on the tach since the owner changed out the alternator, but we didn't have the equipment to determine how much of a difference it was. Idle was also a bit low and needs to be adjusted a bit. We ran her at WOT for a good 10 minutes without any issues. The surveyor said there was some vibration, but it wasn't anything that raised any red flags with me. We checked for play in the cutlass bearing, and found none. There was very little smoke at any point during the run, even at startup.

We also took oil samples from the Perkins and the Genset, and both came back from Toromont Cat with no issues.

All of this in mind, I've been wondering if I actually NEED a mechanical survey. I'm still coming down in favor of yes, if for no other reason than my own peace of mind. I think what we did in the first survey will be enough to satisfy the bank and the insurance folks.
Dave
Looking at the YW listing "Specifications" and your above sea trials, you have verified what you expected to find, so good news, no surprises. Without pulling the injectors and doing a pop test and a compression test, there isn't much more that can be learned, even from a mech survey. Some good mechanics can tell you stuff that you and I would never think about, just from listening to the engine running at low and high rpm. But no surveyor can give you an absolute "This engine is in great/poor condition" that you can take to the bank. At some point you will need to say to yourself "good enough for me". If that takes a survey, get one.
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Old 08-21-2019, 02:29 PM   #24
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Try giving these guys a call

TAD for perkins engines, perkins diesel, perkins marine, perkins parts, perkins generators, perkins service

Perkins experts. Well regarded. I think Steve D'Antonio spoke highly of them in a recent article.
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That’s a good idea. I think I’ll do that. Thank you!

Getting beyond a survey idea, assuming that's maybe been OBE...

Maybe have a Perkins expert (TAD person?) come do your first service, and arrange to make that a teaching/learning exercise at the same time. Engine and gear oil and filter, fuel and filters, coolant and filter, belts, air cleaner (AirSep?), discussion about heat exchanger/aftercooler(?)/turbo(?)/etc service assuming those not immediately needing anything obvious, according to your now-on-site expert... who can generally look over everything, hear everything, see everything at the same time...

That's cost more, but... might set you off on a good footing with your new-found friend (engine).

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Old 08-21-2019, 05:39 PM   #25
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Dave
Looking at the YW listing "Specifications" and your above sea trials, you have verified what you expected to find, so good news, no surprises. Without pulling the injectors and doing a pop test and a compression test, there isn't much more that can be learned, even from a mech survey. Some good mechanics can tell you stuff that you and I would never think about, just from listening to the engine running at low and high rpm. But no surveyor can give you an absolute "This engine is in great/poor condition" that you can take to the bank. At some point you will need to say to yourself "good enough for me". If that takes a survey, get one.
Yeah, I think I'm at the 'good enough for me' point right now.

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Getting beyond a survey idea, assuming that's maybe been OBE...

Maybe have a Perkins expert (TAD person?) come do your first service, and arrange to make that a teaching/learning exercise at the same time. Engine and gear oil and filter, fuel and filters, coolant and filter, belts, air cleaner (AirSep?), discussion about heat exchanger/aftercooler(?)/turbo(?)/etc service assuming those not immediately needing anything obvious, according to your now-on-site expert... who can generally look over everything, hear everything, see everything at the same time...

That's cost more, but... might set you off on a good footing with your new-found friend (engine).

-Chris
I like this idea. This may well be my plan of attack. I sure hope we'll be friends! lol. Thanks Chris.
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Old 08-26-2019, 01:06 PM   #26
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Mechanical Survey

Having been through many, many surveys (vessel and mechanical), I can tell you that you and your surveyor did most if not all that a mechanical survey would entail. Most mechanics and service centers have moved away from surveys due to liability questions so it's really hard to find anyone, especially for an older engine.

Attaining full rpm and watching oil pressure and temps thru the full operating range are the most important combined with acceptable oil sample results. You can buy a reasonably priced photo tach to be sure about max rpm and a remote thermometer with laser pointer to keep an eye on temps. Most of a mechanical diesel survey consists of the mechanic sniffing, feeling, listening, and watching the engine run while checking temps...they rarely turn a wrench...so I think you're fine.
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Old 08-26-2019, 02:15 PM   #27
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I had a mechanic do a diesel survey on mine when I bought it a couple years ago. He had a punch list of items like cleaning injectors, setting lifters, replacing hoses, leaking gaskets, etc. that were useful in the final price negotiations but since your past that don't sweat it.
I hadn't done diesels but hot rodded cars as a kid. I have found the diesels are much simpler but the parts are heavy and expensive! Check out Boat Diesel and utubes and you'll figure it out fast.
BTW, you didn't say if the oil tests were with some time on the oil or not. If not re-run them as I believe they are a great indication of problems starting but useless on fresh changed oil.
Also on the Perkins, watch for any rusting on the high pressure steel lines. I had a pinhole that atomized a little fuel on the far side behind the oil filter. Took a long time to find it to finally improve the diesel smell.
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Old 08-26-2019, 05:31 PM   #28
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Having been through many, many surveys (vessel and mechanical), I can tell you that you and your surveyor did most if not all that a mechanical survey would entail. Most mechanics and service centers have moved away from surveys due to liability questions so it's really hard to find anyone, especially for an older engine.

Attaining full rpm and watching oil pressure and temps thru the full operating range are the most important combined with acceptable oil sample results. You can buy a reasonably priced photo tach to be sure about max rpm and a remote thermometer with laser pointer to keep an eye on temps. Most of a mechanical diesel survey consists of the mechanic sniffing, feeling, listening, and watching the engine run while checking temps...they rarely turn a wrench...so I think you're fine.
Yeah, I think you're right. It would have been nice to have a diesel whisperer there who could use the force to tell me what my engine was thinking about, but I think we did enough to settle my furrowed brow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpogue123 View Post
I had a mechanic do a diesel survey on mine when I bought it a couple years ago. He had a punch list of items like cleaning injectors, setting lifters, replacing hoses, leaking gaskets, etc. that were useful in the final price negotiations but since your past that don't sweat it.
I hadn't done diesels but hot rodded cars as a kid. I have found the diesels are much simpler but the parts are heavy and expensive! Check out Boat Diesel and utubes and you'll figure it out fast.
BTW, you didn't say if the oil tests were with some time on the oil or not. If not re-run them as I believe they are a great indication of problems starting but useless on fresh changed oil.
Also on the Perkins, watch for any rusting on the high pressure steel lines. I had a pinhole that atomized a little fuel on the far side behind the oil filter. Took a long time to find it to finally improve the diesel smell.
That's good to know about the high pressure lines. I didn't smell... well anything really, so I'll keep a nostril out for that sort of thing.

The oil we sent off didn't have many hours on it. Less than 10 I think. The oil in the generator was less than 3. They just haven't been used much this season. The surveyor warned me that that would skew the results and make things look cleaner than they might be. I'll do another analysis when I put some more hours on her, and see how it lines up. I plan on sending samples in fairly regularly.
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:37 PM   #29
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I bought a boat in Canada 3 years ago and had Craig Morley from Aquafacts do the engine survey. You might try him. He charges for travel time and is about 1.5 hrs from Toronto. He does a lot of sailboats and motorboats.
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Old 08-27-2019, 12:58 AM   #30
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I know his name popped up during the search for a surveyor, I'm pretty sure I talked to him, but I can't for the life of me remember why we didn't connect. I spoke with a bunch of people who didn't have room in their schedule, and a few who didn't have the tools or skills to do a survey on an aluminum boat. In any event, I'm happy to proceed with the purchase without any further consultation.

Thanks for the tip though!
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Old 08-27-2019, 06:53 AM   #31
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Congrats you are off to a good start. The surveys will not find every fault. That’s why you keep a little in reserve for things you find the hard way. They are boats after all.
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Old 08-27-2019, 07:24 AM   #32
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During the survey and sea trial, we did run the engine through it's paces. We took her through the RPM range and compared oil pressure, temperature, and boat speeds with no major issues found. There is a discrepancy between actual RPMs and what is displayed on the tach since the owner changed out the alternator, but we didn't have the equipment to determine how much of a difference it was. Idle was also a bit low and needs to be adjusted a bit. We ran her at WOT for a good 10 minutes without any issues. The surveyor said there was some vibration, but it wasn't anything that raised any red flags with me. We checked for play in the cutlass bearing, and found none. There was very little smoke at any point during the run, even at startup.

We also took oil samples from the Perkins and the Genset, and both came back from Toromont Cat with no issues.

All of this in mind, I've been wondering if I actually NEED a mechanical survey. I'm still coming down in favor of yes, if for no other reason than my own peace of mind. I think what we did in the first survey will be enough to satisfy the bank and the insurance folks.
You've already covered the highlights of a mechanical survey and assured yourself the engine likely has no major issues. Good job. Your idea of hiring someone for a day to teach you everything you need to know about that engine is a good one. It helps to know your way around a bit, sometimes for peace of mind and sometimes to be able to more quickly diagnose an issue.

She's a nice looking vessel. Keep us posted on your adventures with her.

John
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Old 08-28-2019, 03:30 PM   #33
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Passed with flying colors? No such thing as a boat with absolutely nothing wrong with it, even from the factory, or maybe especially from the factory. I would not pay for a survey that didn't have at least a half-dozen writeups.

“That’s a load of Commie bull Mr. President.” - Gen. Buck Turdgeson played by George C. Scott in the movie “Dr. Strangelove”
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Old 08-28-2019, 03:42 PM   #34
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Passed with flying colors? No such thing as a boat with absolutely nothing wrong with it, even from the factory, or maybe especially from the factory. I would not pay for a survey that didn't have at least a half-dozen writeups.

“That’s a load of Commie bull Mr. President.” - Gen. Buck Turdgeson played by George C. Scott in the movie “Dr. Strangelove”
Well, mine's perfect. Come by and buy.
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Old 08-28-2019, 03:47 PM   #35
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I should have said that there isn't a boat FOR SALE that doesn't have something wrong with it.
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Old 08-28-2019, 04:14 PM   #36
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LOL, well played, sir!
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Old 08-28-2019, 04:53 PM   #37
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Some questions about mechanical surveys

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Passed with flying colors? No such thing as a boat with absolutely nothing wrong with it, even from the factory, or maybe especially from the factory. I would not pay for a survey that didn't have at least a half-dozen writeups.



“That’s a load of Commie bull Mr. President.” - Gen. Buck Turdgeson played by George C. Scott in the movie “Dr. Strangelove”


Oh heavens no, I wouldn’t ever claim that there wasn’t anything wrong with any boat. She’s got a list of things to fix, I promise. The zincs are all wrong and weren’t showing any continuity. There are blemishes in the paint work in several spots, and there are cracks in the fuel filler lines. There are a couple of hoses that should be double clamped that aren’t, and there are a couple of areas below the waterline that need to be filled and faired. One of the spreader lights isn’t working, and the whole boat could use an LED upgrade. There’s a water maker aboard that hasn’t been used since the first Bush administration, and is likely just ballast at the moment.

She certainly isn’t perfect, and she never will be, but I’m comfortable with being able to deal with the issues that she does have.
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Old 10-20-2019, 05:58 PM   #38
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one of the most important engine checks should be base pressure, which is essencially the amount of blow by the engine has. this can be measured with a manometer, or if the guy knows his stuff, can usually judge it simply be removing the oil fill cap.
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