JD engines —mechanical vs. electronic

[caltexflanc]

Like Lepke, I am a big fan of old school Detroit two stroke engines, based on two of them having transported us on a wonderful multi-year journey. That, and knowing several happy fellow boaters with them. I'd be delighted to have them again on our next boat. I'm not one to anthropomorphize things, but I sure did form an emotional attachment to those big boys.

All that being said, I would also be very happy with a set of modern electronic engines. Knowing plenty of people with those too, highly experienced yachts people and deep sea sportfishermen alike. I've found most of the bogeyman stories about them to apocryphal at best. Not unlike the conventional wisdom among many about Detroits.

One thing I didn't notice mentioned above in the lists of various benefits, is the amount of information (including trouble shooting) and control they provide. For instance, one of the contributors to Flo-Scan's demise was the advent of electronic engines, with their ability to measure fuel consumption, load (which 3rd party devices don't), RPMs and so on. Fine tuning one of things for optimal fuel consumption and load is dead simple. Likewise synchronising twins.

I'm all for 'em.

 

[Blistic]

Yes,
Thank you for your response!

I love the fact of field service and no electric involved...

 

[jgwinks]

Sure a lightning strike can maybe do them in, but a much overblown straw man issue it would seem.

That same lightening strike can blow holes in the bottom of the boat or just kill you outright. At that point a running engine is irrelevant.

 

[Fletcher500]

I was speaking to a long time delivery captain last week. He has been through the P canal numerous times, trips to HI, well over 100k miles under his keel is my guess. A real pleasure to chat with him. Anyway, he took a direct strike in FL. Scared the hell out of them, but no injuries. I believe they were stopped and engines were off. Any electronics that were on, were done. All systems that were off, were fine. Not sure if any of this relevant, and every lightening strike will affect each boat and it’s systems differently.

My avatar shows me sitting at an offshore island in one of the worst lightning storms so cal has experienced back in Oct 2021. The photo was taken by my friend who was a few hundred ft away in his sailboat.. Not a big deal compared to the SE coast many of you probably have experienced, but it was for us. The storm passed directly over me at one point. I was never overly concerned about the electronics, or the engines that were off. My main concern was the clearing winds that would hit later. And they did, causing me to drag Anchor towards a rock cliff and subsequently having to leave at 1 am. My anchor normally does fine, but holding power in this anchorage was poor and my stern anchor became the primary when the wind shifted..long story. I was solo, and def the scariest night I have ever had at sea. There is always something out there challenging us, and Mother Nature is in charge, not us.

 

[ancora]

All mechanical for this skipper. Took one look at an ECU controlled engine and recoiled in horror at all the spaghetti (wires) electronic relays, sensors, et al. Goes against my belief in KISS.

 

[Blistic]

That's very true!
We seem to get one thought of what may happen,
When it's the little things we look past that undermine us(me)...


Richmond Virginia
LimbandTreeRemoval.com
Currently In-between Boats

 

[Fletcher500]

All mechanical for this skipper. Took one look at an ECU controlled engine and recoiled in horror at all the spaghetti (wires) electronic relays, sensors, et al. Goes against my belief in KISS.

Agree. I cant even drive on the freeway anymore with all of these electronically controlled diesels breaking down and clogging the roads up.

 

[catalinajack]

Agree. I cant even drive on the freeway anymore with all of these electronically controlled diesels breaking down and clogging the roads up.

It has been my experience that many boaters lose sleep worrying about lightening strikes and meteors. My favorite is clogged fuel filters at an inopportune time. It's my guess that 98% of the vehicles on the road today are electonically controlled but, yet, I hardly ever see a vehicle stopped by the side of the road. We have Ford Lehman 120s and I love them but would not hesitate owning an electronically controlled engine although I would pay close attention to how power is supplied to throttle/transmission controls.

 

[mvweebles]

.....would not hesitate owning an electronically controlled engine although I would pay close attention to how power is supplied to throttle/transmission controls.

Very good point - I definitely see more failures due to electronic controls than engine ECU.

I like my old Perkins 4.236 75hp because I'm not a great mechanic but concede it probably takes more mainteinance than an electronic counterpart.

Peter

 

[Fletcher500]

It has been my experience that many boaters lose sleep worrying about lightening strikes and meteors. My favorite is clogged fuel filters at an inopportune time. It's my guess that 98% of the vehicles on the road today are electonically controlled but, yet, I hardly ever see a vehicle stopped by the side of the road. We have Ford Lehman 120s and I love them but would not hesitate owning an electronically controlled engine although I would pay close attention to how power is supplied to throttle/transmission controls.

Agree, we obsess over a lot of things that are not that important, and I am also guilty of it at times. I think the most important aspect about boating is not my engine, the electronics, or any other boat systems, but the people and their health. My wife and I have each taken two very hard falls on boats over the years. My wife’s left knee is held together with chicken wire and she will eventually need a replacement. Slips and falls and lacerations, especially while at sea are what I am mostly concerned with. I constantly remind myself of this, and even put a note out a times when I am alone to “watch my step” and be methodical in my movement.

 

[bowball]

Agree, we obsess over a lot of things that are not that important, and I am also guilty of it at times. I think the most important aspect about boating is not my engine, the electronics, or any other boat systems, but the people and their health. My wife and I have each taken two very hard falls on boats over the years. My wife’s left knee is held together with chicken wire and she will eventually need a replacement. Slips and falls and lacerations, especially while at sea are what I am mostly concerned with. I constantly remind myself of this, and even put a note out a times when I am alone to “watch my step” and be methodical in my movement.

Agreed. Falls are an issue. I slipped badly rushing once at 2am groggy from sleep after hearing an unfamiliar noise and stepping down quickly when the carpet section slipped out from under me. The attachment had weakened as I earlier that day had removed it to open a hatch, weakening the bond. My momentum coming down a step and the haste of my movement let my center of gravity get well behind my feet, and I wasn’t alert from the sleep. It was a very hard fall but nothing bad happened. If I was older or landed differently it could have been quite bad.

Lesson learned. So your logic is spot on to me

As for electronic controls, the latest generations have dual sources of power, are sealed, etc.

 

[ancora]

For check writers, there is no difference between mechanical or ECU engines. For boat owners like myself who do all their own work it does make a difference. With DIY mechanical engines, there is no need for sophisticated (and expensive) diagnostic tools. There is no need to pay a "technician" big bucks to change electronic components until he gets it right. I'll stick with KISS as my mantra.

 

[twistedtree]

As for electronic controls, the latest generations have dual sources of power, are sealed, etc.

But often not utilized. I had to specifically designate their use on my build, and did it both for the engine power supply and the controls power supply. So the whole propulsion system is dual redundant powered from two separate start battery banks. It's quite easy to do, but I think most builders don't bother.

 

[Fletcher500]

For check writers, there is no difference between mechanical or ECU engines. For boat owners like myself who do all their own work it does make a difference. With DIY mechanical engines, there is no need for sophisticated (and expensive) diagnostic tools. There is no need to pay a "technician" big bucks to change electronic components until he gets it right. I'll stick with KISS as my mantra.

So if someone has a newer boat with electronic engines are they “check writers” by default? I grew up with a set of wrenches and still use mine, like most people on this forum who have newer engines. You and I have gone back and forth on this topic before. You are making assertions about failures of electronics in relation to engines like they happen all the time. They don't. You like your engines and they definitely have some advantages, so great. But skip the assertions about topics you are not familiar with because other people who are new to boating read these threads and don't need the misinformation.

 

[Nomad Willy]

This makes me think of my old boat Willy.

She had an old school Mitsubishi. Just like a Lehman except for the details like the funny stand alone lube system on the injector pump.

There was no mention of deep ocean cruising so w a long nylon line rode I’d go w a mechanical engine. Low (or should I say “lower” fuel burn) wouldn’t be an issue as I had one of the few boats on TF that wasn’t as big a boat as I could afford. Doubling my fuel burn would cause me no heartburn whatsoever.
Also my seawater pump impeller was available at any NAPA store in SE. Good old fashioned Jabsco.
I wouldn’t even need anything but green AF since no part of the engine came in contact w aluminum.

The only possible downside could be that most mechanics won’t be familiar w Mitsubishi engines. But this engine being simpler (probably) than a Lehman any mechanic would feel right at home w it.

Also the Mitsubishi engine distributor has been dealing w the fish boat market since the 60’s. So all parts could be flown in if needed .. anywhere in the US.

 

[catalinajack]

So if someone has a newer boat with electronic engines are they “check writers” by default? I grew up with a set of wrenches and still use mine, like most people on this forum who have newer engines. You and I have gone back and forth on this topic before. You are making assertions about failures of electronics in relation to engines like they happen all the time. They don't. You like your engines and they definitely have some advantages, so great. But skip the assertions about topics you are not familiar with because other people who are new to boating read these threads and don't need the misinformation.

Wholeheartedly agree. That is why I dislike much of the fearmongering that goes on here and in other boating forums, the incessant, esoteric "what-ifs". To new boaters who are trying to learn, this is not helpful. Sure, address the possibility but add context. Context here is that ECU failures are rare. Naturally- aspirated engines rarely fail also but they do, don't they. I have a pair of Lehman 120s that have never given me a bit of trouble but, then, my pick-up with 7,700 hours on the clock still starts up just fine, never an ECU failure. And let's remember, a diesel in a vehicle lives in a much harsher environment than any boat engine including being bounced around incessantly whereas a boat engine not so much.

 

[Scubawpb]

This forum is awesome! I don't post much, because I'm mostly in learning mode. I would like to add a couple of points to this thread.
My ex-boss had a 40' Convertible with twin electronically controlled diesels. He was at full cruise in the Stuart, Fl. Inlet when 1 engine went from FULL CRUISE TO FULL REVERSE. Long repair story but had to do with resistance readings to a COMPUTER.
My 2nd point has to do with the original question. It seems to me, that given the choice, most experienced Captains would choose the mechanical JDs. I read every post on this thread and would conclude that electronic engines don't have enough merit to out way the extra expense and risk. JMHO