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Old 08-17-2018, 12:53 PM   #21
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YES the one on port side that I suspect is very easy to turn I almost though it wasn't opening it was turning so ez. Thanks for the tip! I will look at tightening that tonight. Is there an oring or something in there I can replace?
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Old 08-17-2018, 12:54 PM   #22
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Thumbs up

ďIím a firm believer in what did you last before it died.ď

The older I get the more I understand that.
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Old 08-17-2018, 01:41 PM   #23
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I have a funny feeling you nailed it High Wire. Ill know tonight. I think all three of the gate valves are suspect, but I didn't know they could be tightened like a shaft log seal I assume. Is there a packing that can be replaced if they need it, or do I just replace them if the gland nut is bottomed out? They appear to be the originals and tied in real well if you know what I mean. It will be a job to replace them if that what's needed.
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Old 08-17-2018, 01:54 PM   #24
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Can you post a clean picture?
Doubt you need to repack. Just a slight tightening.
Also industrial gate valves have what is called a backseat allowing the hand wheel to be turned fully counter clockwise to the stop then remove the packing without a leak. I doubt they have backseats but it is possible.
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Old 08-17-2018, 02:15 PM   #25
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Yes Ill take a pic tonight. The valve handles are dark green if that rings a bell. Seems like these are the same as the water valves at the house. I notice on those they can leak until you fully open them to the stop. Should these valves be opened all the way (opened tight) not backed off a 1/4 turn? Just want to make sure as the PO had them not all the way tight open, so I've been doing the same. Going to tighten all of them tonight and see what it gets me.
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Old 08-17-2018, 03:25 PM   #26
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Can’t hurt. There is no real heating of the valve to cause it to jam against the backseat if it has one.
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Old 08-17-2018, 04:14 PM   #27
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Hi,
So you have 2 screws , right ?
Each tank can go to one or the other fuel pump?
OR
If you have 1 screw, and one tank quits engine, but the other one runs fine?
Itís not the fuel pump. Look to air at the filter, lubricate gaskets , gently put together then tight.
Or You may have sludge in one tank.
If you did have a gummed up tank, it would draw or pull air before cut off.
I had to replace all my lines because of multiable air draw.
Low fuel in tanks same air gulps in line.

What I did (but not recommending), I put a gas bulb to squeeze before the fuel pump. That little bar back and forth was a pain. My wife 3 stories in the hole can prime our leman in 5 minutes.

Best to you
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Old 08-17-2018, 08:09 PM   #28
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So tonight I did some work. I tightened all three valves the one in question took a 1/2 turn the others 1/4. They all now have resistance and seem correct. I drained some out of the racor and pumped the ball at first solid then got air so there for sure air getting into the line between the valve and the tank. Also I did not like the push on hoses that are in there figured they could leak so I put hose clamps on all of them you can see in the picks. I also added a bulb to the starboard motor even though its not having issues it makes the bleeding soo must quicker and thorough.


There is one other shut off gate valve that's at the top of the tank where the pickup comes out I cant get to it. Will look tomorrow to see if theirs a hidden hatch in the closet. Once I did the gate valve tightening and hose clams, I noticed an improvement in the squeeze bulb and no foamy gas coming into the racor when squeezing. Everything's bled all new filters double checked the gasket seats on everything and put new gaskets and orings in just because I had them.


Tomorrow were going fishing, and I'm going to run the boat for a few hours. When I get back Ill look in the racor ext and see where I'm at. Here are some pictures of the setup. Ill post back the results this weekend.
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Old 08-18-2018, 08:10 AM   #29
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The devil's in the details. It appears that the hose clamps may be a bit oversized. If they're to big, they may have a tendency to create an uneven spot in the hose. That could initiate an air leak. Part of the solution may end up being part of the problem.


You've already indicated a suspicion of the gate valves. Replace them with ball valves that are vacuum rated, use new hex nipples. Make sure they're clean, degreased, and use a high quality dope like Highside Leak Lock. If you re-use any fittings, make sure they're scrupulously clean, wire brush the threads, and degrease them prior to assembly. Brake cleaning spray works well as a cleaner, keep it off painted surfaces, though.
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Old 08-18-2018, 10:13 AM   #30
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"You've already indicated a suspicion of the gate valves."

These may be simple water valves , and the packing is slowly being eaten by the diesel.

I would purchase FUEL rated valves of any configuration you like.

My favorite is at least one fire shut off valve as used on home heating oil tanks.

These have a spring that will close the valve should the temperature get high enough.

Made for dirt house use so there is no boat penalty on purcha$ing.

Especially good for operating a fuel tank with a bottom gravity opening to feed a diesel range or heating plant.
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:53 PM   #31
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Understood on the clamps but they are making good connection. Issue is for sure between the bulb I put in and the tank. I was able to get a look top of thank where the gate valve is but thereís no hatch. That valve looks suspect so my plan is to try and tighten it.

Iím temporarily removing all of the hose and replacing with clear hose from the tank line to the racor. Bypass the valve up top and see if air gets in. The hose and gate valves are all suspect. Iíd like to find the issue rather then start replacing everything.

Thanks for the info on the thread sealer ext. if I need to Iíll redo all of it for sure. The hose is not very flexible not sure if thatís normal for the type used. Itís real thick 5/16 ID.
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Old 08-19-2018, 04:47 PM   #32
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I have to be truthful here at the expense of losing friends on TF. Raccor are way overpriced and overrated try as I might I can't justify them, they simply don't add up.
As to your problem of fuel starvation have you got a non return valve at the fuel tank ?
If it runs for a while and stops you have air ingress, go back down the line segment by segment until you find full flow, then your problem starts there.
I'll tell you a little story.
I fitted a Caterpillar water separator filter and had a similar problem. As long as I kept the revs on the engine it worked fine, when it was on tick-over it stopped within 5 minutes.
The problem ?
When I fitted the Caterpillar filter I overtightened one of the olives on the fuel line. My fault entirely, I cut the end off the overtightened distorted pipe, made a new connection and it still works perfectly 15 years later.
Its called experience.
Take it step by step, once you've found and fixed it and you'll be all bright eyed and bushy tailed again.
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Old 08-20-2018, 07:40 PM   #33
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I had the same problem on my Lehman 80... it would run for about an hour and a half or so then die. I could bleed it and get another hour and a half out of it. The problem was always that the secondary filter nearest the injector pump ended up empty. I looked everywhere for an air leak, even took apart the fuel tank selector valves and rebuilt them to no avail. I finally installed a cheap in-line 12v electric fuel pump just after the fuel tank selector valves but before the Racor primary filter. As long as I ran the electric fuel pump the engine would run for 24 hrs or more. It still bugged me that I had a leak somewhere even though I couldn't find it. So, I tore strips of paper towels and wrapped every single fuel connection between the electric pump and the in-line secondary filters. I turned the electric fuel pump on and let it run overnight (engine not running). The next morning I checked the paper towel strips and found one of them with just a slight amount of fuel on it - not saturated, just like a few drops. I took that connection apart, cleaned it up and re-connected. That fixed the problem. So, no, it won't hurt anything to leave a pump connected to your fuel system and leave it pressurized overnight. But, you've got to have some sort of leak detection system since the leak could be very small!

As a side benefit, the electric pump also allowed me to easily fill the Racor after changing the filter element and to easily bleed the engine without using the on-engine manual fuel pump.
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Old 08-20-2018, 10:08 PM   #34
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Thanks for that info. I was worried I might fill crank case with diesle with the pressure. I guess the ingector pump blocks it when motors not running.

Tomorrow afternoon Iím going to use a Schrader valve connected to a psi gauge. Going to shut the valve at the tank and put few psi of air between where I have the bulb and the tank. Use soap outside to look for bubbles.

I know itís not anti siphon, vent or clogg. Itís air. Iím getting tiny foamy diesle coming out of the squeeze bulb.

I think Iíll find it tomorrow cross fingers Iíll be posting back the problem location. Otherwise Iím redoing everything to the racor.
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Old 08-20-2018, 10:28 PM   #35
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Your injection pump is like a small engine, with pistons, valves, etc. It's job is to push the fuel hard enough that it will pop the injectors to atomize the fuel in the cylinders. No way you're ever going to create enough pressure to push past the injector pump.

Good luck! Use more than a "few psi", really pump it up, you're not going to hurt anything. And, use very dilute soapy water - it bubbles much easier under low pressure than less dilute soap.
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Old 08-21-2018, 12:50 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Rambler View Post
I have to be truthful here at the expense of losing friends on TF. Raccor are way overpriced and overrated try as I might I can't justify them, they simply don't add Up.

I agree heartily, visit sbmar.com for the real thing.
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Old 08-24-2018, 04:31 PM   #37
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Ok so I pressure tested the whole system and I think I know where the leak is up in the gate valve manifold. Issue is I believe the gate valve is only leaking under vacuum. I pumped 15 psi into the line and found no leaks and it held steady for 20 min.. I still get air into the bulb even when the port side gate valve is shut with the center one open to the other tank. That limits my issue to the T and gate valve on the port side!! Have one more test to do to verify, but I'm planning to redo all of it for both sides now. Final test is to run from tank to racor bypassing the gate all together. No issue = leak found! That will happen this weekend.

I want to incorporate a single walbro fuel pump that I can use to prime, polish, or use in case of lift pump failure on either motor/tank.
I came up with what I think will work well for me, but looking for input from you all because its obvious you have loads of combined experience.

Plan is to use lever valves for the pump flow direction on the out side of both filters and Tees back to the gate valve out. A Tee with a valve in 4 places. Using those in one open valve configuration or another, I should be able to pump to either motor, polish fuel from either tank to tank, or bleed to either motor. Looking for validation on my not so artistic diagram attached..

My biggest concern as of now is if I'm using the Walbro pump in this way as a backup to a failed lift pump scenario, it will be competing with the lift pump on the working side. Will the competing pumps going in opposite directions of the racor out flow cause a problem? My gut says yes.. The situation will probably never be used as I can always get back on one motor, BUT Id like to know if there's a better way (with one pump) to do what I'm trying to do.
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Old 08-24-2018, 07:25 PM   #38
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Here's the fuel schematic on MOJO. A single engine but 4 fuel tanks. The tank manifold isn't shown, only the valving for the filter system. With this setup I can filter with the Gulf Coast paper towel filter, the Racor 500 filter, both filters in series or neither filter. If one filter shows symptoms of clogging I can switch to the other filter underway, change the offending filter and switch back. We typically run while continuously filtering with the Gulf Coast filter and keep the Racor 500 as a backup. Never needed it, but it's there just in case! Fuel can be either sent to the engine or recirculated back to any tank. It's worked perfectly for the past 16 years or so. 3-way valves greatly simplify the plumbing and reduce cost.

Schematic:
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Picture of the valving:
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Old 08-26-2018, 04:46 AM   #39
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Please understand first and foremost I've no wish to offend anyone by my straight talking which some may find a little too direct.
What in heavens name do you need all those overpriced Raccor filters for ?
Why are simple straight forward fuel systems turned into a plumbers nightmare ?
Your engine is supplied with a pre-filter and fuel filter with a fine gauze in the lift pump and should be serviced regularly.
If the engineers who designed the engine feel its sufficient why all the mental masturbation ?
EACH tank requires a non return valve at the tank, if you have more than one tank a simple lever valve (handle inline ON, at 90 degrees OFF) system will suffice .
ALL tanks need a sump and drain cock that can be checked once a month to drain any sediment or moisture, alternatively, drain the tank of fuel, use a wet & dry vacuum cleaner to hoover the floor of the tank and refill it.
K.I.S.S.
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Old 08-26-2018, 06:37 AM   #40
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"If the engineers who designed the engine feel its sufficient why all the mental masturbation ?"

Many installed engines were built for farm service , lawn service or small trucks.

The fuel turnover is far quicker with a 30G tank than a 300G tank.

Most of the fuel hassles come from poor tanks that get water in the fuel , so multiple filters (any brand) is a help.

My favorite is the old style glass jar with a woven "sock" built to condense the water on the sock surface and then have it drip to the jar bottom.

These show the water , and with a gravity system can be cleared in seconds.

Sometimes the old stuff is more useful than the new expensive stuff.

Here is the style , although its fitted with a replaceable filter , rather than the cruisers delight , a re useable filter.

https://utahbiodieselsupply.com/fuel...oldenrodfilter
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