Fire Safety Question

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Benthic2 said:
On this thread there are probably a collective hundreds of years aboard....has anyone had a fire problem when not underway ??
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Three times underway and once I remember pierside.
 
GoneFarrell said:
When I use the fwd bunks I swing the hatch latch handles to the open position to enable rapid exit in an emergency.
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Just so, and show them how to climb up on the V-berth. Part of my guest brief; just before the "deploy the life raft" lesson.
 
Just read all of this..... now I don't want to leave the dock!
 
Fires do happen quick! A couple years ago my wife and I were just putting along up on the FB on beautiful day. We noticed our electronics kinda flicker and go out then flicker, we kept putting along talking about for a moment. Then crazy enough our dog was down below a mini wiener dog started throwing up and choking. Lol believe me she is not a Saint Bernard trying to save us with a cask of rum under her neck!!
Anyways wife screams, I do the fireman descend down the vertical ladder to save the wiener Dog in a flash.
Low and be hold all and everything electric shut down all of a sudden and the smell of plastic burning filling the salon. Opened the engine compartment seen arcing and 8” flames coming from the starboard drive shaft.
Grabbed fire extinguisher and knocked it out, and it was difficult and kept re igniting because our main battery harness consisting of 6 cables had came loose from its strapping and fell on the turn shaft. Physically had to lift the cables off the shaft to stop arcing and flames from re starting.
Reason for sharing our event is, it’s surprising how quick things unfold during day light hours. I will give princess pearl some credit for choking, because if it wasn’t for her we still would have stayed on the FB for another 2 hrs till we hit our anchorage.

These unfortunate folks in the dark and asleep, words can’t empathize what they went through.
I feel insurance companies can do a better job with policing safety requirements and or local business licensing should be involved when public safety is an issue.
 
Ken,
First and foremost, life safety first, second, and third!!! All property can be replaced, loved ones cannot. As far as "fighting the fire", unless you catch it very early in it's development (especially on a boat), evacuate as quickly as possible. Not only do fires tend to progress with amazing speed on a boat, but the products of combustion (smoke, particulates, gases, etc.) are extremely toxic and could incapacitate someone very quickly who inhales them.

Now of course, there are always exceptions to that rule, under certain circumstances, etc. that I don't plan to cover here.
First, keep a clean, well maintained boat, and as mentioned previously, ensure that all electrical work is done by someone competent in the area of marine electrical.
Install more than the bare minimum number and size of fire extinguishers. Check them regularly for pressure, the safety zap strap in place, and nothing clogging the nozzle. Have them professionally serviced as required. Place an extinguisher in the galley, near the engine room (even if equipped with an automatic system), in each sleeping area, and at the entrances/exits to/from outside. If you have the opportunity, take some training on the operation of portable fire extinguishers.

Install (and regularly test) smoke and CO alarms to provide total coverage, preferably "linked" so if one goes off they all do.
Develop a "safety briefing" (preferably written - for consistency) to ensure that all guests are properly prepared. Cover things like location of exits, extinguishers, use of same, smoke and CO alarms, muster station, etc.

Develop an emergency plan for your vessel, especially for fire situations (because fires are very scary and dangerous on a boat). Practise the (fire) plan at least annually with the regular crew, and do a walk through with guests.

At all docking situations, make it a habit to establish a meeting point where everyone on board would assemble should an evacuation be necessary. Trust me, these are not things you want to try for the first time when the chips are down!!
I know of several families that were saved from house fires because the children had attended fire safety training at school including actually practising it in the "fire safety house"! Remaining relatively calm and doing the correct actions because of your preplanning and preparation can make all the difference in an emergency!
When at transient docks, take the time to check them out from a "what if" point of view, and plan out your courses of action and means of exiting. I agree, avoid docks that are undercover for the reasons already discussed. For example, anytime I am in a hotel, I check out the fire safety systems, the location of both the nearest and a backup exit, and give thought to how I would find that exit in a dark, smoke filled hallway.

I too, strongly advise not using real candles on a boat. I use the little LED "tea light" style candles. They are safe, and don't look too bad :)
Also be aware that smoking (especially in bed) has caused many fire deaths and injuries over the years. On my boat, no smoking is allowed. However, if you do, then ensure the safe handling of the products afterwards. Put the ashes and butts into an air tight, metal container for later disposal.
I could go on (and probably bore you), and many of the other posts mention good points. Combine the info provided and you will be well on your way to being as fire safe as possible.
 
A few years ago I had an electrical fire and used a product that I had purchased for our galley. After tripping the 115 breaker, I was able to extinguish the fire quickly. The beauty of this extinguisher is it’s size and power using a liquid chemical cooling agent. I of course have the required dry chemical extinguishers, but anyone who’s ever used dry chemicals on a fire knows the huge cleanup job required afterwards. It’s available at Home Depot.
 

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Okydowky said:
Fires do happen quick! A couple years ago my wife and I were just putting along up on the FB on beautiful day. We noticed our electronics kinda flicker and go out then flicker, we kept putting along talking about for a moment. Then crazy enough our dog was down below a mini wiener dog started throwing up and choking. Lol believe me she is not a Saint Bernard trying to save us with a cask of rum under her neck!!
Anyways wife screams, I do the fireman descend down the vertical ladder to save the wiener Dog in a flash.
Low and be hold all and everything electric shut down all of a sudden and the smell of plastic burning filling the salon. Opened the engine compartment seen arcing and 8” flames coming from the starboard drive shaft.
Grabbed fire extinguisher and knocked it out, and it was difficult and kept re igniting because our main battery harness consisting of 6 cables had came loose from its strapping and fell on the turn shaft. Physically had to lift the cables off the shaft to stop arcing and flames from re starting.
Reason for sharing our event is, it’s surprising how quick things unfold during day light hours. I will give princess pearl some credit for choking, because if it wasn’t for her we still would have stayed on the FB for another 2 hrs till we hit our anchorage.

These unfortunate folks in the dark and asleep, words can’t empathize what they went through.
I feel insurance companies can do a better job with policing safety requirements and or local business licensing should be involved when public safety is an issue.
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Have you made any improvements to the fire detection capabilities in your ER like smoke detection, IR detector, or camera?
 
Folks,

Not sure the environment in which y'all boat. But, if I'd leave my hatches unmatched and a too common Florida storm would roll through...well, it's be a wet one inside.
 
Good topic and lots of interesting ideas. Our forward cabin is pretty typical with an overhead hatch that's fairly high and is typically closed. When we have guests we discuss fire safety and egress, location of life preservers in each cabin, fire extinguishers in each cabin, etc.

We also shut down the inverter at night or when away so no electronics are charging - I've seen a boat burned up because of a computer battery.
 
rgano said:
Have you made any improvements to the fire detection capabilities in your ER like smoke detection, IR detector, or camera?
Click to expand...

Ok I ran out of time to keep rambling on and I knew I might expose myself to the wolves of TF.
After my wife read my post she obviously had a different explanation of the choking wiener. She wasn’t choking from the smoke, lol she actually was choking, like needing Heimlich! Being emptying nesters and down to a 5 yr old wiener dog, that gets better attention than most humans! So yes I was running to the rescue of my wife’s beloved.
This is when I smelled the electrical and opened up the ER to the plume of smoke!
As far as safety my wife does not play around one bit! She does not set foot on the boot with out doing a manual test of all smoke detectors X4, CO2 X2 and gas and fume detectors also.
Believe me everything works especially the gas detector that is a royal pain in my butt, because of being gassers and fumes rolling over the transom, so we have learnt to deal with this one.
We do have a Halon system in the ER, which following this fire we did some research on. Found it was so dated and not able to be re certified but still charged. The only professional that even knew what it was first verified it wasn’t the band chemical which I forget what it was called. Then he asked if we tended to keep the boat or thinking of selling due to the cost of the Halon upgrade. We opted to be upgrading our boat which we are, and his suggestion was not to pull it out because it’s dated. But rather it may work as a back up fire suppression one day. Our boat size does not require Halon or does our insurance. Yes we did ask why it didn’t go off and he said this one is trigger by heat sensors.
Chime in if I was told a bullsh$t story,!
So as far as up to date safety my wife has everything X2. Believe it or not we sleep with pfd’s, hand held smoke detector and CO2. Like mobile she can pack these ones around. Including our guess get the same welcome package.
So nothing has changed to our safety equipment because it’s Beyond up to date and current.
Battery cables have all been replaced and are now in a fixed wire tray. I am crazy about maintenance and our to complete wish list is long and numbered, this was one area I have looked at for years that could have had greater attention. And low and behold it bit me in the butt, and almost cost us our boat. With older boats you just keep prioritizing and hopefully stay a head of possible failures.
Knock on something we get to live and learn again!,!
 
Okydowky said:
Ok I ran out of time to keep rambling on and I knew I might expose myself to the wolves of TF.
......

So as far as up to date safety my wife has everything X2. Believe it or not we sleep with pfd’s, hand held smoke detector and CO2. Like mobile she can pack these ones around. Including our guess get the same welcome package.
So nothing has changed to our safety equipment because it’s Beyond up to date and current.
Battery cables have all been replaced and are now in a fixed wire tray. I am crazy about maintenance and our to complete wish list is long and numbered, this was one area I have looked at for years that could have had greater attention. And low and behold it bit me in the butt, and almost cost us our boat. With older boats you just keep prioritizing and hopefully stay a head of possible failures.
Knock on something we get to live and learn again!,!
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I hope I am not considered a TF wolf, but rather as the angel on your shoulder whispering encouragement into your ear. :)

I do applaud yours and your wife's efforts and conscientiousness. But the question remains in my mind is simply if this same type event (meaning not a real conflagration but something smokey) were to happen today, where the temperature in the ER never got to the halon system's release temp of somewhere in the neighborhood of 260F, would you get some sort of alert at the helm?
 
We have an engine room camera that is kept on one of the MFDs all the time when we are underway. It may help us identify smoke in the engine room before the halon would dump. Maybe not but it is easy to do. I make it a practice to scan all the displays every few minutes.
 
Rgano, I would have to say we have nothing of alarms in the ER! I am guilty as charged, we have the living areas covered. And definitely sleeping quarters tripled checked.
Any suggestions for alarms? A camera would be a good addition, but again if your not paying attention it means nothing.
Is there an alarm out there that won’t scare the bleep out of me when my wife burns toast.? I think most affordable alarms in ER’s would be heat sensitive possibly giving false alarms, unlike my Halon that did not go off.
I do appreciate everyone’s concerns and knowledge! It definitely makes me re think our own emergency plan. Thank you, I do need to re group next week when I am at the boat and give a good system go over.

Our future does look like our boat will be for sale, but still have to do a conscious go over for the new folks to be!
My bigger concern is our boat shed kept, and everyone now is in arms of building fires and roofs falling in. I am damned if I do! And damned if I don’t!

Get me a drink!
 
Thank you Steve, we are on it! Currently at a boat show and will get this completed. Appreciate the advice and the link...

Troy
 
Olebird said:
Scenario: Kids are asleep below. Captain is on aft deck. Large fire in passage way between, Halon released, fire restarted. All power is off. Dark no moon. Cabin single escape hatch is latched from inside.

Now what?
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Halton release will remove oxygen from the area not a good situation for anyone still inside. A fireman's ax might be something to consider to open hatch.
 
I'm going to toss out there a fairly new risk in the last 10 years. Li-ion battery fires. The major players don't worry me, the iPhones, the LGs, the Samsung, etc. Its all the smaller companies making cells. Vaping pens, replacement laptop batteries, dive scooter batteries, Ebike, Escooters, bright flashlights, etc.

These really should be charged in a somewhat fire resistant container, like a SS broiler pan, or the like. Sitting on upholstery, wood counter, etc, is asking for trouble. You are usually just a semiconductor junction short away from a burn down. A loss of control of the charge voltage can set off a thermal chain reaction that is difficult to put out when you are sleeping.
 
From link above:

6 Does Halon remove oxygen from the air?


It is a common misconception that Halon, like CO2, "removes oxygen from the air."

According to the Halon Alternative Research Corporation (www.harc.org): "Three things must come together at the same time to start a fire. The first ingredient is fuel (anything that can burn), the second is oxygen and the last is an ignition source. Traditionally, to stop a fire you need to remove one side of the triangle-the ignition, the fuel or the oxygen. Halon adds a fourth dimension to fire fighting-breaking the chain reaction. It stops the fuel, the ignition and the oxygen from working together by chemically reacting with them."


True BUT; If Halon goes in some air must go out somewhere. When the air is displaced by Halon does it leave enough O2 in the mix to support life? Maybe, maybe not. An engineer can do the calcs or you can measure the resulting concentration with a very expensive test. You have to assume NO until proven otherwise.
 
High Wire said:
True BUT
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No but about it. That was a myth, let go believing it.

Though it's largely a moot point as the only way to have a Halon system now is with recycled Halon (it's no longer manufactured due to CFC regulations).
 
The concentration needed to supress fire is very low.


When it first coming out...a friend investigating it's use for the USCG went to a distributors office.


He went in sat down and was offered a cigarette (back in the early 80's). The guys desk was covered with all kinds of cool lighters. Frank kept picking one up and sparking it, but no flame...and tried a dozen till the guy leaned back and opened a closet door. There was a bottle of trickling Halon into the office.


Pretty cool sales tool.


However...dump enough into a small space and somehow displace the general atmosphere...sure. Supposedly several of the generations of Halon replacement vatriations were pretty toxic when exposed to heat. Can't say for sure though but I think the USCG got and got rid of some pretty fast.
 
Last edited:
CO2 is a bit of a poison; so, it's more than a simple O2 displacement issue. Halon doesn't have that issue.
So, how much O2 does one need at sea level? Well, my gas blending course taught me to put in a minimum of 16% O2 for breathing at SL. So, you can calculate from there what displacement one would have when firing off a Halon cylinder in a confined space. 16/21= 76%. So, if you stayed at 25% total volume with Halon, seems OK to me. You certainly don't want 25% total volume made up with CO2.
 
For fire protection systems, Halon operates in a 5 to 7% concentration. take some time but get out.
Carbon Dioxide operates at 50%. It also makes you breath involuntarily. You cannot hold your breath. Get out immediately.
 
wkearney99 said:
No but about it. That was a myth, let go believing it.

Though it's largely a moot point as the only way to have a Halon system now is with recycled Halon (it's no longer manufactured due to CFC regulations).
Click to expand...

Halon replacements are available FM200 is a popular one. Called clean agents now.
 
Ran into a new issue on Starlite this week end. Several of the OEM courtesy lights were out. I found a direct LED replacement, fixtures and all, for <$5.00, bought three, for the two that were out and a spare. Replaced two in the cockpit, made huge difference.


The overhead vanity in the head had only one of three lights burning. As I tried to remove the lens, I brushed against an extremely hot fixture - so hot it blistered the back of my hand. Took it all apart only to find 3 of the same courtesy fixtures - but the PO had replaced the incandescent with a much higher wattage festoon bulb. Two of the fixtures had melted and failed, the third was on the verge. The fixture was hot enough to start a fire - the good news there was nothing flammable close by - the plastic fixture melted and failed before it flamed!!!



Bottom line - use only the right replacement bulbs or better yet switch to LED's - check them all to make sure they are not over heating!!
 
I have a recently-certified fire suppression system in the engine room. Do I also need a separate smoke/fire detector?

What type of smoke detector would be appropriate for my enclosed engine room?
I am concerned about false alarms (due to heat in engine room
) and inaudibility while I am driving from the pilot house.

Thanks in advance &#55357;&#56842;
 
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