Shackle to anchor connection video

[Simi 60]

. I remember reading an analysis that determined that catenary was more effective in deep water vs shallow, although I don't remember the details of it or the reason why.

In shallow water your chain is running horizontal(ish) so straight pull
In depth your chain is more vertical so the extra weight does something

 

[O C Diver]

Two thoughts: I'd say the anchor doesn't know how deep the water is provided the angle of pull is the same. The angle of pull depends on the catenary which in turn depends on load, depth, weight of chain. With that point firmly in mind it is not scientifically flawed - it is as I said a data point and a valid one.

I think the below quote explains it very well. While you will see surge and increased strain at 50' and 120', shock loading probably isn't an issue the way it is in 10' of water. I understand you have to work with the submerged topography where you boat. I need to anchor with a rode length that keeps chain on the bottom and reduces shock. Short scoping anchors holds no advantage to me.

I'm almost positive that the shallow vs deep scope difference is related to the effect of waves. If you get hit with a 3 foot wave in 10 feet of water, that makes a significant difference to your angle of pull. In 50 feet of water, that 3 foot wave has very little effect.

Ted

 

[Nomad Willy]

The slot goes back further than I thought.
I found an S grade (best Dan) Danforth in my back yard w a slot instead of a hole in the shank end.

Somebody thought it was better. And in the 40’s it seems.
But I can’t see any reason except the side loading theory.
At times I put washers in the side gap to limit the side play.

Heven’t looked up Steve’s take on this yet.

 

[83GB]

The original "Shackle to anchor connection video" got me thinking.... I have a 60 pound Manson Supreme anchor connected to 3/8 BBB anchor chain. The anchor chain has 2650 pound safe working load and 11,000 pound breaking strength. I use a 3/8 inch bow shackle and the package it came in says 2000 pound safe working load. Should I find a "stronger" shackle to match my chain?.... That said, I have looked and cannot find any 3/8 inch bow shackle that has higher working load than 2000 pounds? Should I go up to a 3/4 inch shackle that have around 9000 pound working load? Then again, I am not sure if it would fit in anchor attachment hole...

 

[Nomad Willy]

83GB,
Find a rated shackle of a higher value. Are you shopping in hardware stores? Go to industrial/commercial sources.

Then use a plastic caliper (or steel if you have one) to measure the ID of the anchor slot hole.
Then go shopping w the handy caliper and get a shackle w a pin/bolt a bit less OD.
Then insure that one of the two shackle ends will go through the chain link.

Measure the obvious to connect the shackle to the chain by inserting one of the shackle ends through the shank slot. Measuring may not work as it may bind even if it measures a fit. You may need to buy it at least temporarily, take it to the anchor and try the fit. Or measure one that does fit and shop for one that matches the one that does fit

 

[BruceK]

The Ronstan 1/2" Long Dee Shackle($39AUD) I used in the slot of my Super Sarca anchor had an "Ultimate Strength" Rating of 8618Kg, wonder what the SWL was. Reliable brand with rating, probably still locally made here, and exported. They make bow shackles too, pretty much all types.

 

[O C Diver]

You will need to check the link inside dimension width of your BBB 3/8" chain, but my G4 chain width is .60" and a 7/16 shackle will fit with a 5,300 lbs working load limit.

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1&id=3551897

Ted

 

[Simi 60]

The Ronstan 1/2" Long Dee Shackle I used in the slot of my Super Sarca anchor had an "Ultimate Strength" Rating of 8618Kg, wonder what the SWL was. Reliable brand with rating, probably still locally made here, and exported. They make bow shackles too, pretty much all types.

usually 5x so 1723

 

[seighlor]

His anchor holding tests have significant flaws and lack real-world behavior.

He sets the anchor, then motors 180 degrees directly over the anchor which then forces a hard jerk on the anchor at 180 degrees from set.

In the real world wind and tide changes don't exert that type of behavior on a boat at anchor. A boat clocks around the circumference of it's anchor swing, not directly across its radius.

Even if it did, it would do so as a result of the change in tide, not wind, which would be a very slow motion event. Wind rarely shifts at high speed 180 degrees.

A high-speed wind shift may be rare but it happens. Some years ago I anchored in a cove near the western shore of the Sea of Cortez. Conditions were light and the wind was directly off the shore. I was sailing a forty-four foot boat and using a Fortress FX37 anchor with ⅝" nylon rode.

While asleep, a storm came through with severe winds blowing me toward the shore. The anchor had to have flipped. The boat stopped with a heavy jolt that flattened one side of the heavy stainless steel trough that held the rode in alignment.

I started the engine and barely touched the nylon rode with a knife blade, causing it to separate; then motored out to open water.

Though it may be rare, stuff happens. In this case, my anchor held in an extreme 180 degree flip situation and saved my boat from being driven onto a desolate shore.

 

[izikalvo]

I disagree. He is the first to admit that his tests are somewhat artificial, but in more extreme way than would typically be encountered. For example, he usually uses 1:3.5 scope whereas most folks anchor with at least 1:5 scope, and usually more. When he reverses direction at 2-kts, he'd be the first to admit this is not normal behavior, but if the anchor resets quickly in this perverse example, reasonable to surmise it would reset in a lazy tide change over a couple hours.

I've been keen on anchor tests for 25+ years - there is just so much anecdotal cheerleading and so little testing. Every reasonably large anchor manufacturer has their own tests that show theirs is the best. West Marine used to sponsor an objective test (I think with Sail Magazine), but they were a straight line pull of anchors on a beach so very limited use-case. Practical Sailor has done some as well. Both are instructive and there are nuggets of wisdom, but to my eyes, Panope is the only one who goes a few steps further. What is really missing are some different sea bottoms such as soft mud and grass. But for what he does, I find the information useful.

And I especially liked the video I posted on shackle attachment. Never occurred to me to look at this end of the anchor. Very instructive for me at least.

Peter

Steve is doing a great job for all of us, even if the 180-degree flip is rare (it also happened to me in the Med one time only), the fact that he is doing his tests the same way for all of the anchors gives us, users and manufacturers the opportunity to compare apple to apple in the same conditions, rare or not, it is not so simple to make these underwater videos and as long as he will stay nonbiased reporting what he sees and feels, it should be our interest to help him by giving him access to more anchors to be tested, after all, we, the manufacturers are testing anchors all the time and his tests just adding more well-filmed videos to learn from.
The fact that the videos go online as is, might be frightening, marketing-wise, but for the benefit of all of us, the risk should be taken.

Disclosure: I am the founder and CEO of Viking anchors.

 

[mvweebles]

Steve is doing a great job for all of us, even if the 180-degree flip is rare (it also happened to me in the Med one time only), the fact that he is doing his tests the same way for all of the anchors gives us, users and manufacturers the opportunity to compare apple to apple in the same conditions, rare or not, it is not so simple to make these underwater videos and as long as he will stay nonbiased reporting what he sees and feels, it should be our interest to help him by giving him access to more anchors to be tested, after all, we, the manufacturers are testing anchors all the time and his tests just adding more well-filmed videos to learn from.
The fact that the videos go online as is, might be frightening, marketing-wise, but for the benefit of all of us, the risk should be taken.

Disclosure: I am the founder and CEO of Viking anchors.

Izi - thanks for joining us on TrawlerForum. I had not heard of Viking Anchors but see Steve has tested them and while not perfect, was reviewed slightly more favorably against a Mantus (both are good anchors).

Question for you: are Viking Anchors available in the US without heroic efforts via shipping? I have a small-ish 36-foot trawler that is space-challenged. I was thinking of a Mantus as back-up as it can be disassembled as can the Viking. What i like about the Viking design is the T-Flange on the shank that bolts through the fluke area is on the bottom of the flukes whereas the Mantus is on top. Engineering wise, just makes more sense that way.

Best regards, and thanks for finding us on TrawlerForum.

Peter

 

[rochepoint]

Snooping around their website & found this........

 

[izikalvo]

Izi - thanks for joining us on TrawlerForum. I had not heard of Viking Anchors but see Steve has tested them and while not perfect, was reviewed slightly more favorably against a Mantus (both are good anchors).

Question for you: are Viking Anchors available in the US without heroic efforts via shipping? I have a small-ish 36-foot trawler that is space-challenged. I was thinking of a Mantus as back-up as it can be disassembled as can the Viking. What i like about the Viking design is the T-Flange on the shank that bolts through the fluke area is on the bottom of the flukes whereas the Mantus is on top. Engineering wise, just makes more sense that way.

Best regards, and thanks for finding us on TrawlerForum.

Peter

Thanks for having me,
We do have a rep in NY but he doesn't carry any stock for now, so heroic efforts are still needed. for your boat, without knowing the weight of it I can only guess that the Viking 10 will be more than sufficient, you will need to check on our website to be sure.
I feel a little uncomfortable to use this forum to promote Viking, for any questions please contact me in private.

Just wanted to show my respect to Steve for what he is doing.

 

[83GB]

Follow up to my post on shackle for my BBB chain and my Mason Supreme anchor.... All this talk got me worried about my shackle being the weak point.... As It turns out, my old shackle was a US made CM 3/8 shackle; I had taken it off and replaced it with a brand new (in the package) shackle I had in my "parts" box. That shackle said 2000 pounds working load (it was a Chinese made shackle). After wire brushing and cleaning up my old CM shackle, I could read on the shackle itself that it was a 2 ton working load. I verified this by looking at the specs on the Internet. Consulting with anchoring experts, I was told the breaking strength of the shackle is 5 to 7 times the working load.... So the original CM shackle is back on.... It only had had light surface rust and appears in fine shape..... If I need to replace in the future, I will go with US made CM or Crosby... Also, I measured my chain and I can go up to a 7/16 shackle if I want a little more working load...

 

[O C Diver]

Follow up to my post on shackle for my BBB chain and my Mason Supreme anchor.... All this talk got me worried about my shackle being the weak point.... As It turns out, my old shackle was a US made CM 3/8 shackle; I had taken it off and replaced it with a brand new (in the package) shackle I had in my "parts" box. That shackle said 2000 pounds working load (it was a Chinese made shackle). After wire brushing and cleaning up my old CM shackle, I could read on the shackle itself that it was a 2 ton working load. I verified this by looking at the specs on the Internet. Consulting with anchoring experts, I was told the breaking strength of the shackle is 5 to 7 times the working load.... So the original CM shackle is back on.... It only had had light surface rust and appears in fine shape..... If I need to replace in the future, I will go with US made CM or Crosby... Also, I measured my chain and I can go up to a 7/16 shackle if I want a little more working load...

Good job doing your due diligence. This is one of those situations where going to top capacity for a critical application only costs a few extra dollars. Buy your future replacement now, so when you need it, you don't have to consider putting the Chinese one back on.

Ted

 

[izikalvo]