Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-10-2020, 06:41 AM   #41
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber prawn trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by makobuilders View Post
Propane and oxygen are used to cut and melt steel, although Ive only used acetylene. So I assume you would use these in a stick welder, not with a Home Depot propane brazer.
Nope, definitely a flame
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 07:09 AM   #42
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 24,241
Does this answer any questions?


took less than 30 seconds to find.....


psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 07:28 AM   #43
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber prawn trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Does this answer any questions?


took less than 30 seconds to find.....


l]
A lot more heat needed there.
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 07:44 AM   #44
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 24,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
A lot more heat needed there.

True...looked like one of my rushed soldering jobs.


But it goes to show that the task is MORE than reasonably doable by any one of TF DIYers. I may give it a go afterseeing the video.



Whether it makes sense over other ideas...well... not the point of the video.



Materials for doing it are available and the company made a video to show that it's not rocket science.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 08:47 AM   #45
Veteran Member
 
City: Victoria, BC
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37-148
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 96
This link gives more specific instructions and embeds the same video:

https://www.wikihow.com/Use-Galvanizing-Repair-Rods

I suspect one would need a MAPP torch rather than just a simple propane torch or a heat gun to get enough heat into the piece.

RotoMetal sells bars of a Zinc / Tin / Lead Alloy that looks to be designed for this very purpose. https://www.rotometals.com/regalv-ga...-repair-stick/

I think I will give this a try for the most problematic scars on the anchor.

-evan
eheffa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 07:35 PM   #46
Scraping Paint
 
City: HILTON HEAD ISLAND
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Does this answer any questions?


took less than 30 seconds to find.....


Do you really believe that guy got the pipe to 4-500 degrees with that little MAP torch? Look at the results.. It looks like a chicken shit zinc on the pipe! Come on guys.. Quit drinking the internet shade tree kool-aid. No such thing as a free lunch.
GH41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 08:43 PM   #47
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 24,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by GH41 View Post
Do you really believe that guy got the pipe to 4-500 degrees with that little MAP torch? Look at the results.. It looks like a chicken shit zinc on the pipe! Come on guys.. Quit drinking the internet shade tree kool-aid. No such thing as a free lunch.
Based on your posts I prefer to believe almost anything else.

You asked for a video and got it, you have NADA backing your camp of thought.

Just like the uneducated posts on composting toilets...anyone with a hatful of experience saw though your "ideas" on the subject.

A tidbit of investigation goes a long way in realistic posts.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 08:44 PM   #48
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,726
eheffa,

ASTM A780 - 09 (Reapproved 2015) Standard Practice for Repair of Damaged and Uncoated Areas of Hot-Dip Galvanized Coatings has all the instructions you need.

I'd send you a copy but my IHS Engineering Workbench agreement will get me in trouble as all of the pages have security imbedded codes.

Annex A1 Repair Using Zinc-Based Alloys calls for wire brush affected area and the surrounding tightly adhered galvanized steel, preheat the metal at the area of repair to 600F, wire brush again while hot, rub the zinc solder on, let cool, remove the flux with a damp cloth, and mag pull-off gage to measure the thickness.

If you gob it on, just sand or file lightly to smooth (not a step, but I've seen it done)

You can buy the solder in Canada, but I work in industry. I'll see if I can find a retail source.

All but the thickness measurement can be done with hardware store tools and you can skip that step anyways...

GH41,

Is ASTM International internet shade tree kool-aid? I mean I did get it from my IHS Markit account, which is indeed internet based, so maybe...

As far as temperature goes, 600F is only brown red, so MAPP gas would be just fine.

How do you think field repairs are done to immovable objects?

Metallizing is great for larger areas, but mob/demob and environmental aspects are limiting and expensive.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 09:25 AM   #49
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by eheffa View Post
...I suspect one would need a MAPP torch rather than just a simple propane torch or a heat gun to get enough heat into the piece.

-evan
I don’t know but MAPP or a comparable would definitely work. The flame in air temperature of MAP-pro is 3,730 degrees F.
Attached Thumbnails
E715ACF5-B94E-41E3-B813-C1ABA7F9F1DB.jpg  
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 09:44 AM   #50
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 24,241
Propane would meet the temp requirement easily....the question is can one or two torches spot heat an area on an anchor to get a good result.

I can't say for sure, but I would accept Lepke's word.

Plus the arguement isn't so much around the heat source as much as the method for a DIY project. Many people have access to capable equipment for spot repairs.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 10:04 AM   #51
Guru
 
City: Rochester, NY
Vessel Name: Hour Glass
Vessel Model: Chris Craft Catalina 381
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 3,851
Given a big enough oven you could always use that to pre-warm the anchor some before taking the torch to it.
rslifkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 10:44 AM   #52
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,005
Or, the OP could go to Spence's marine in Sidney and find a very nice consignment anchor for "peanuts." Call ahead and find out what they have, or they could maybe find for you in a week or two. But, the anchor in question is a good one albeit looking like the owner is a true boater.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 10:52 AM   #53
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by GH41 View Post
Are you kidding or serious?
We know Lepke has the experience, don't about yours. BTW, as noted by Spy and others metallizing in many forms is a well entrenched practice. PS, I'm a Metallurgical Engineer for whatever its worth and can't argue with Lepke's techniques.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 11:51 AM   #54
Senior Member
 
City: PNW
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 122
"This message is hidden because **41 is on your ignore list."
A wonderful tool!
Stabi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 12:24 PM   #55
Veteran Member
 
City: Victoria, BC
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37-148
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Or, the OP could go to Spence's marine in Sidney and find a very nice consignment anchor for "peanuts." Call ahead and find out what they have, or they could maybe find for you in a week or two.
Hi Sunchaser,

Happy New Year!

I don't wish to make this thread into an anchor brand free-for-all discussion but, I should reiterate my original statement that we are totally happy with the performance of the Spade. As I know you do, we anchor in some remote very tricky shoaling inlets (think of Kynoch inlet) where one has very little room for movement between deep water and shoaling bars. The Spade sets almost instantly and stays put despite vigorous on-shore winds and shifting tidal currents. I don't wish to replace the anchor, I just don't like to have it blooming bright orange rust when gracing the bow of our boat and so am looking for a solution to what is mostly a cosmetic issue.

Our boat's integrity, the ability to sleep onboard and overall safety is too important to consider compromising on the anchor choice. (I've seen Spencer's consignment anchors and I'm not at all tempted to switch ;-) The choice of main bower is not something I would want to compromise on to save a few bucks. If anything, I would choose a Sarca Excel next time based on what seems to be better galvanizing and very similar performance; but, the Spade wasn't a cheap investment and apart form these cosmetic issues has never let us down.

I think that Lepke's suggestion of spot brazing or galvanizing with a stick and torch has a lot of appeal as the most problematic areas are really just localized scars where sharp rocks have damaged the galvanizing or where the tip and eye are worn thin.

-evan
eheffa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 12:35 PM   #56
Veteran Member
 
City: Victoria, BC
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37-148
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
eheffa,

ASTM A780 - 09 (Reapproved 2015) Standard Practice for Repair of Damaged and Uncoated Areas of Hot-Dip Galvanized Coatings has all the instructions you need.

I'd send you a copy but my IHS Engineering Workbench agreement will get me in trouble as all of the pages have security imbedded codes.

Annex A1 Repair Using Zinc-Based Alloys calls for wire brush affected area and the surrounding tightly adhered galvanized steel, preheat the metal at the area of repair to 600F, wire brush again while hot, rub the zinc solder on, let cool, remove the flux with a damp cloth, and mag pull-off gage to measure the thickness.

If you gob it on, just sand or file lightly to smooth (not a step, but I've seen it done)

You can buy the solder in Canada, but I work in industry. I'll see if I can find a retail source.

All but the thickness measurement can be done with hardware store tools and you can skip that step anyways...

GH41,

Is ASTM International internet shade tree kool-aid? I mean I did get it from my IHS Markit account, which is indeed internet based, so maybe...

As far as temperature goes, 600F is only brown red, so MAPP gas would be just fine.

How do you think field repairs are done to immovable objects?

Metallizing is great for larger areas, but mob/demob and environmental aspects are limiting and expensive.
Thanks Northern Spy.

I see that it's $40 USD for a PDF of the authoritative resource, but it sounds like it would be standard and acceptable practice to use the Zinc Repair Rods and a torch to repair damaged galvanizing.

(According to their website, the Rotometal REGALV rods can be shipped to Canada relatively cheaply; Cheaper than going through Amazon.com BTW.)


I will give that a try and report back here.

I emailed the Spade distributor shortly after starting this thread and so far have had no response...(Crickets)

Thanks for your input & help.

-evan
eheffa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 12:40 PM   #57
Veteran Member
 
City: Victoria, BC
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37-148
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 96
Question:

Can one use a regular (good quality) Propane torch with the MAPP gas cylinder or do you have to have a special MAPP version of the torch head?

-evan
eheffa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 02:38 PM   #58
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,726
The old MAPP gas didn't work with propane torch heads, the new MAP gas does okay. I bought a new torch with built-in ignition that runs MAP and propane. I never use my old torch head and striker anymore as the new head is so convenient.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 02:42 PM   #59
Guru
 
Lepke's Avatar
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by GH41 View Post
The part I question is your ability to heat the anchor hot enough to melt the zinc with propane. Sounds alot like you are repeating internet BS to me. Maybe you have a video or two to support your position. I love places like this... One's ability to type somehow makes them an expert.
Zinc melts at about 800F. A propane torch can reach 2000F. The base metal temp is raised a couple hundred degrees but not causing glowing. In hot dip galvanizing, the zinc is in a melted state. All the zinc does is coat the object, not merge with it. Better galvanized hardware is dipped 3 times for a thicker coat.

I was a certified welder, all positions, most techniques, worked in shipyards, had my own yard, built and repaired steel boats and ships, but don't consider myself an expert. When I patch galvanized items I use a oxy-acetylene torch because I have one. What I was trying to point out is anybody can reasonably repair their galvanized equipment without buying professional welding equipment. Boats are expensive enough as they are.
Sorry about the videos. I'm in my 70s and a couple generations past the social media craze. My phone is about 8 years old and takes lousy pictures, I never tried videos.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 02:52 PM   #60
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,726
Just out of curiosity I found this old (2001) version of A 780 on the web:

https://civilengineersstandard.com/w...8/11/A-780.pdf

It is almost the same as the new standard. New standard has hyperlinks to the reference documents and a bit more verbiage in the scope. Annexes appear the same.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
galvanizing, rust management, spade anchor

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012