Is this windlass wiring correct?

[Marco Flamingo]

I'm going through my boat's electrical system, mostly cleaning out wires that used to go to something that was removed. Probably 10% of the wiring on the boat goes nowhere. As I was cleaning things up, I was looking at the new windlass wiring. All seems okay, probably professionally installed with new cables that run from the bow to the engine room. Then things get a little odd.

Although the cables are new and have several feet of extra slack in them, they run to the engine starter for power. Not directly to the starter. Both of them are connected to the starter using smaller leads. I haven't checked the actual sizes, but it is something like #4 leads of two feet connected to #0 cable to the windlass.

My question right now is not about size, but about why it would be powered this way (I could connect the larger cables directly to the starter without using the smaller leads). I thought that the starter is hot and the ignition moves the bendix to engage the starter. Is this wiring so that the windlass can't be run unless the ignition is on and (most likely) the engine is running? Or is it just a convenient place to get power in the engine room? To add to the oddity, the small leads and the larger cable to the windlass both have nice big lugs on them. But both are are connected with a bolt wrapped in electrical tap and neither is secured. Seems like maybe a project that was never finished.

Because the new windlass cables have some slack in them, all I would need to do is cut a small hole and I would have access to + and - buss bars next to my battery switch. I always have the engine running when I run the windlass, so I don't see any problem with connecting them this way. Am I missing something about having the windlass power somehow associated with the starter?

 

[Swfla]

Here's how I see it. 1) if it ain't broke... 2) change the wiring to what you think it should be. If it works, great, if it doesn't, go back to the original connections. 3) be prepared to spend many hours to figure out a potentially complex situation. There's no single standard to wiring a windlass. Electrical is notoriously difficult. Cheers.

 

[TJM]

I personally would not want to have the current come thru the starter when the ignition is turned on. God forbid, you lose an engine in a thin channel and need to quickly drop the anchor to hold ground ?
My new Tigres goes directly to a 12 VDC buss bar, thru a breaker switch under the bow. This is also easily accessible "just in case". Wire size reductions and bolted connectors make me nervous. I have seen and replaced a few of them on my boat.

 

[SoWhat]

Prev owner tapped into 12V+ source wherever it was convenient, not necessarily where it was appropriate.

You could calculate the voltage drop and determine if the installation meets specs or you could simple rewire it. Windlass motors can be replaced but they will fail at the worst possible time.

Lewmar publishes many diagram of installations. For example, see https://www.lewmar.com/sites/default/files/sites/default/files/V700 manual 65001022-iss8-Eng.pdf

 

[jhall767]

I personally would not want to have the current come thru the starter when the ignition is turned on. God forbid, you lose an engine in a thin channel and need to quickly drop the anchor to hold ground ?
My new Tigres goes directly to a 12 VDC buss bar, thru a breaker switch under the bow. This is also easily accessible "just in case". Wire size reductions and bolted connectors make me nervous. I have seen and replaced a few of them on my boat.

The setup he is describing has nothing to do with the ignition being turned on or not. This is the feed to the starter motor. Power should be controlled by the engine battery switch.

The issue I see is that there is no breaker or fuse in the circuit going all the way to the windlass. There should be a fuse or circuit breaker for every circuit within 7' of the battery. The only exception being the starter motor. It needs the full output of the battery. I would rewire through a circuit breaker.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I went back and looked at it better today. Went over it with a multimeter (starter is hot even with ignition off). And I then changed it.

The thin leads at the start of the circuit were only 6 gauge (55 amp max), not 4 (70 amp). The main cable to the windlass is 1/0 (125 amp). In theory, 6 gauge could carry the 50 amp load of my windlass motor. But reading the fine print, my windlass says full working load might spike as high as 80 amps. Then there is the voltage drop issue. Voltage drop pencils out okay (less than 3% drop) for just the 1/0. But how would I calculate in the 4 feet (2 feet on both ends) of 6 gauge? I thought it best to just get it out of the circuit and wired the windlass directly to the buss bars behind the battery switch.

It looks like this might have been a "get-er-done" installation prior to sale. "Brand new winch!" (with a quicky install).

 

[tiltrider1]

Post 2,3, & 4 don’t really understand the starter system. Post 5 is absolutely correct. Look for the circuit breaker. If it was professionally installed it will be there. If it’s not there then it wasn’t professionally installed and should be inspected by a professional. The reduction in wire size could be to be a hacks way of installing a fail point or it could be to form a more proper connection to the starter. Not seeing the system with my own eyes I really can’t venture a guess on the system. On the surface I don’t like what I am hearing but I haven’t seen all the obstacles either.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I would rewire through a circuit breaker.

I thought that there was a circuit breaker forward where the remote controls the winch. Maybe that's just a solenoid. I'll have to double check.

That may explain the way it was wired. The PO didn't have a big enough circuit breaker or fuse on board so it was wired to the starter with no fuse. I remember seeing a Blue Seas circuit breaker in the big box of electrical parts that came with the boat. Maybe this was an unfinished project. If it's over 100 amp I'll have what I need.

 

[Swfla]

I was trying to address Marco's initial question. I don't know if this "circuit breaker" solution is the answer. I can tell you that many boats have a dedicated battery forward for the windlass and that is what I'd do if I was going to redo the system. But that wasn't the question. From the description of old wires going to nowhere, etc, it sounds quite the challenge...best of luck.

 

[Xsbank]

Definitely needs a breaker. There is some superstitious nonsense that vital circuits should not be fused: "if the fuse blows I won't have a bilge pump" or similar. The result is the same if a breaker blows, obviously but you are still only dealing with one issue, not adding a nice smoky electrical fire to the fun as well.

 

[tiltrider1]

Circuit breaker forward would not be acceptable practice. Something like 8” after the starter if not sheathed would be required. Starter circuits are not fused because of the massive draw need to start an engine. Immediately after the starter circuit protection is required.

This is not sounding like a professional job.

 

[sbman]

It sounds like a lazy installation done improperly. There should be equal size wiring from the positive buss, to a circuit breaker (or large fuse) and then off to the windlass. There should never be conductors going off around the boat without circuit protection.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

The new circuit breaker left onboard by the prior owner seems to have been for the windlass circuit. It is only 80 amp when the Muir manual recommends 100 amp for the Storm 850. I tend to be very careful and motor directly above the anchor when slowly lifting in short pulls. Hopefully, I'll never need to reset the breaker. On to other electrical projects that I uncovered while rewiring the windlass circuit.