What form factor in Victron LFP batteries?

[Wdeertz]

I have a battleborn LFP battery bank that I installed about 18 months ago. I have about 400 cycles on the bank and have been quite pleased with the house bank performance. A friend recently had a Victron LFP battery bank professionally installed and after he showed me the installation I was taken back by the compactness of the batteries. My house bank is 12x battleborn 50Ahr @24v batteries. His bank is 4x Victron 330Ahr @ 12v batteries.

When I compute the energy density I get 15.7 cubic inches per 1Ahr @ 24v for the battleborn while the Victron computes to 7.2 cubic inches per 1Ahr @ 24v for the Victron.

My question is - has LFP energy density really improved that much in the past 18 months or is the Victron LFP batteries using a different form factor (such as pouch form factor which is more energy dense)? As far as I understand the battleborn LFP batteries are using a cylindrical form factor which is the least dense.

 

[guy with a boat]

I don’t think the LFP energy density has improved/changed in the last 18 months.

Both of those batteries have built-in BMS. Could the volume difference be partially driven by how to the BMS is packaged inside the case, rather than the cells themselves?

 

[Wdeertz]

I don’t think the LFP energy density has improved/changed in the last 18 months.

Both of those batteries have built-in BMS. Could the volume difference be partially driven by how to the BMS is packaged inside the case, rather than the cells themselves?

The Victron has an external bms versus the internal bms in the battleborn but I don’t think that is enough to account for the density difference.

 

[Barking Sands]

If you go watch Will Prowse videos on Youtube you can see him tear down various batteries. It becomes obvious that there is a ton of empty space in many LFP batteries. Usually filled with foam. Some of this I think it due to having to fit the BMS in there and provide some cooling. Another reason is they typically use an off the shelf battery case that rarely fits the actual internal battery. I think Battleborn does the same. I would bet that Victron has the entire package engineered together including the cases. And if the BMS was external these batteries could be made much much smaller.
*Edit* I think Battleborn uses cylindrical cells too. Obviously that leave quite a bit of air space.

 

[Comodave]

Marinehowto.com has a good reciew on LiFePO4 batteries and things to look for.

 

[Wdeertz]

If you go watch Will Prowse videos on Youtube you can see him tear down various batteries. It becomes obvious that there is a ton of empty space in many LFP batteries. Usually filled with foam. Some of this I think it due to having to fit the BMS in there and provide some cooling. Another reason is they typically use an off the shelf battery case that rarely fits the actual internal battery. I think Battleborn does the same. I would bet that Victron has the entire package engineered together including the cases. And if the BMS was external these batteries could be made much much smaller.
*Edit* I think Battleborn uses cylindrical cells too. Obviously that leave quite a bit of air space.

Thanks, have been a longtime viewer of Will Prowse videos. Unfortunately didn’t find a tear down video on a Victron battery. Part of the difference is obviously the internal versus external bms but that’s not the entire story. One of Will’s videos confirms the battleborn batteries are using cylindrical batteries which obviously leaves a lot of air space. I’ve googled many times and can’t confirm what form factor the Victron LFP batteries are using, hence my question.

 

[slowgoesit]

Thanks, have been a longtime viewer of Will Prowse videos. Unfortunately didn’t find a tear down video on a Victron battery. Part of the difference is obviously the internal versus external bms but that’s not the entire story. One of Will’s videos confirms the battleborn batteries are using cylindrical batteries which obviously leaves a lot of air space. I’ve googled many times and can’t confirm what form factor the Victron LFP batteries are using, hence my question.

Perhaps you should contact Victron directly and ask the question.
From the Horse's Mouth, so to speak . . .

 

[Barking Sands]

Thanks, have been a longtime viewer of Will Prowse videos. Unfortunately didn’t find a tear down video on a Victron battery. Part of the difference is obviously the internal versus external bms but that’s not the entire story. One of Will’s videos confirms the battleborn batteries are using cylindrical batteries which obviously leaves a lot of air space. I’ve googled many times and can’t confirm what form factor the Victron LFP batteries are using, hence my question.

I dont know how old this is but I did find a picture of the internals of a Victron at this site:
https://shop.pkys.com/Ever-wondered-what-is-inside-a-Victron-Lithium-Battery_b_167.html

Below that picture is a few questions similar to yours from 2020 that seem to indicate some improvements. But still no details.

 

[GoneDiving]

For those concerned about energy density, just build your own from component cells and a BMS. Zero wasted space, build around obstacles, half here and half there, length/width/height as required. And let's not mention cost savings.

 

[heysteve]

Another example is the SOK marine battery with 206 AH at 12 VDC vs the similar BattleBorn with 100 AH. True it's slightly larger but not twice the size.
Apparent high quality too. Will has a comparison video: SOK vs BattleBorn.

 

[DDW]

It looks like Victron uses prismatic cells, Battleborn uses cylindrical. Battleborn is in the business of "drop in replacement" batteries, so the necessary dimensions and AH capacities are set by market norms, e.g., G27 battery with 100AH. This can be done with tons of air space in LFP. Prismatic cells can be packed almost solid in the same case.

 

[Wdeertz]

I dont know how old this is but I did find a picture of the internals of a Victron at this site:
https://shop.pkys.com/Ever-wondered-what-is-inside-a-Victron-Lithium-Battery_b_167.html

Below that picture is a few questions similar to yours from 2020 that seem to indicate some improvements. But still no details.

Thanks for the link. From another reply recommendation I searched the Victron forum. There was a reply which indicated the Victron LFP batteries were using prismatic cells. Your link and the associated photo seems to confirm they are using prismatic cells which are more energy dense than cylindrical cells. So in the end part of the increased density is from the external bms and part is from using prismatic cells. I guess if I had installed the Victron LFP batteries I could have went with twice the capacity or half the space. In the end the 600Ahr @ 24v battleborn batteries meet my needs but take more space than ideal. ?

 

[CharlieJ]

The Victron 330 Ahr Smart LFP batteries use an external Victron BMS and CALB prismatic cells.