Winterizing on the hard and/or in the water

[g_heger]

My boat is an 81 CHB Europa, with duel Lehman 120 diesels. Located in SE Alaska.

Looking for recommendations for winterizing on the hard and in the water. I know the water system is to be drained and pumped with RV antifreeze. My understanding is that antifreeze needs to be pumped into the engine through the raw water filter too, about a gallon of RV or regular antifreeze?

Appreciate any suggestions regarding this.

 

[Comodave]

We used a Sea Flush adapter to put the antifreeze into the engine. On that boat it took about 7 gallons of -200 antifreeze to get the proper temperature protection. I used a reflectometer to check the output of the exhaust for the freezing point of the antifreeze. It. will take much more than a gallon of antifreeze to do any large engine. Don’t use regular antifreeze since it is toxic, so you don’t want to discharge it into the environment.

 

[Cigatoo]

Check your muffler for a drain plug. If you find a plug remove it and drain the muffler. Leave the plug out. Now when you run the anti freeze into the engine you can stop when you see antifreeze coming out of the muffler drain plug. (Rather then filling the muffler with anti freeze for no reason) This will save you 5 gallons of anti freeze.

 

[DavidM]

If you do it in the hard, make sure that you leave all thruhulls in the open position so you don’t leave a pocket of water in the thruhull ball that can freeze and crack it.

It is much more difficult if in the water. You have to leave the valve closed with the ball pocket filled with antifreeze. You only have to worry about this in fridged climates where the seawater can freeze and also freeze the valve. When I left my boat in the water over the winter in NC I didn’t worry about it. In Connecticut I did.

David

 

[Bacchus]

I do fresh & raw water, AC & head in the water. I have yard winterize engine & gen as they pull the boat (they are set up to do it in the lift)

Drain fresh water tank & water heater, bypass water heater to avoid adding pink AF.
I use compressed air to blow out lines first so I can shut off pink AF flow as soon as observed w/o worry of it being diluted by water left in the lines

I use a rubber stopper & short hose to suck AF into the raw water. I've added a T w/ capped hose connection to AC inlet - short hose connection from raw water outlet in cockpit to AC inlet provides easy way to force AF through AC pump (AC pumps don't self prime and it is sometimes troulesome w/o AF supply pressure.
I've added a 3 way valve in FW tank outlet / FW pump inlet line for winterizing (available in RV suppliers). Again short hose allows sucking AF from jugs while opening all faucets / showers till pink is seen.
Head - shut off thru hull remove supply line & stick in jug of AF while operating head.

 

[g_heger]

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

I have another question. I have a starting issue with one engine. Batteries all appear to charged and at 12 plus volts. All connections to batteries and starter have been cleaned and checked, but the engine barely turns over. So I'm thinking there is a starter, solenoid, issue............. Looking for thoughts and ideas.

Gary

 

[DavidM]

Probably not the solenoid if the engine cranks. More likely bad connections or dying battery.

David

 

[Bacchus]

What is exact resting V of battys... Big difference between 12.1 to 12.7!
Also worth checking at starter to see if there is a V drop.

 

[Comodave]

Yup, check the voltage at the starter when cranking. 12 volts isn’t very good. It should be higher.

 

[g_heger]

Probably not the solenoid if the engine cranks. More likely bad connections or dying battery.

David

The engine only attempts to crank. It acts like the batteries are dead but they test at about 12.5 volts. They're only a year and a half old. Thought I'd borrow a load tester and see what that says. When we pulled it out of the water it did the same thing but after pushing the start button a number of times it started, as if it was a bad connection, but we just cleaned and tightened all connections.

I just saw the other posts. I'll check voltage at starter when cranking and load test the batteries too. It seems voltage closer to 13 is what I've heard is where it should be.

I've also been told that it's not necessary to winterize the engines when in the water. I've seen -20 F here but it's rare. 0 F is probably more the normal low.

Thanks for the posts. Being a newbie there are a lot of things to figure out.

 

[DavidM]

Batteries can look ok on initial voltage check but when you put a starter load on them the voltage drops to the basement. Easy to check though.

-20F is low enough to freeze a thick layer of ice as well as everything in the engine room. We generally only get a low of zero once or twice a year in Ct and I have measured temps in the teens in the engine room in those conditions.

David

 

[Bmarler]

The engine only attempts to crank. It acts like the batteries are dead but they test at about 12.5 volts. They're only a year and a half old. Thought I'd borrow a load tester and see what that says. When we pulled it out of the water it did the same thing but after pushing the start button a number of times it started, as if it was a bad connection, but we just cleaned and tightened all connections.

I just saw the other posts. I'll check voltage at starter when cranking and load test the batteries too. It seems voltage closer to 13 is what I've heard is where it should be.

I've also been told that it's not necessary to winterize the engines when in the water. I've seen -20 F here but it's rare. 0 F is probably more the normal low.

Thanks for the posts. Being a newbie there are a lot of things to figure out.

You can check voltage along the positive at the battery, at the solenoids battery terminal, and the solenoids output terminal. They should all be very close to each other when cranking.
You shouldn’t need to winterize the engine if you’re going to stay in the water. We used to just keep a heat lamp in the engine room. An oil pan heater might be a better choice these days.
Your fresh water system is another story though. Take precautions in case of power outage during a cold snap.

 

[SIBERNUT]

No one has mentioned a garboard drain plug. Do a THOROUGH search for a small plug near the low point of the bilge. Can't find? Wait till pulled and look for it near the keel. If you find it, remove and leave yourself a BIG note to put it in before launch.
When I bought Phelps, owners did not & let it sit 10 years (!!!!) . Water half way up the engine. BAD JUJU!

 

[Ken E.]

G_heger (OP), There are at least a couple TF members here that keep their boats in SE AK over the winter and can give you some first-hand advise. One is Tom Brady on the boat Silver Bay and the other is the boat GBinterim. Maybe they will chime in.

 

[SeaDogAK]

My boat is in Juneau, which doesn’t get nearly as cold as Skagway. With the boat in the water all winter, I don’t do much to winterize. We run an electric heater in the engine room and another in the cabin, and a dehumidifier in the galley sink. I drain the salt water wash down, since that goes outside of the heated area.

I’d be most concerned about any fresh water lines that aren’t in heated areas or that go near the cold hull above the water line. On my old boat I used to flush all the fresh water lines with antifreeze and then pump them dry. I’ve never been concerned about through hulls freezing, since the water in the harbor stays above freezing except for a thin coat of ice on the coldest days.

It might be different in Skagway, since it gets a bit colder there.

 

[SteveK]

@seadogAK
What is the sea water temp in the winter.
I also do nothing as the engine room is above freezing even without heat due to the water temp when it is freezing air temp outside. My winterization involves sealing the engine room ventilation. Keeps cold wind out and makes the salon floor comfortable.

 

[SeaDogAK]

I’ve never checked the water temperature but it has to be above freezing.

 

[SteveK]

I’ve never checked the water temperature but it has to be above freezing.

exactly. down here it is 50-55F. Makes for a great heater under the boat.

 

[Stabi]

Having stored boats for many years on the hard in a place that gets to -50F on a regular basis, my number 1 words of wisdom is to make a complete winterizing list that you refer to every year when winterizing, to make sure that you do not forget anything. Check off every item when completed, then, when it is the middle of winter and the thought of "did I winterize X", a quick look at your list with a check mark will alleviate your fears.

Start with identifying EVERY place where water HAS been. Engine, Sea water lines, Fresh water lines, Bilge etc.

If the engine and gen set are fresh water cooled, check the antifreeze freeze point.

Flush the engine and Genset with fresh water,
Drain everything, Does the boat have a lift muffler, if so, does it have a bottom drain.
Use Polypropylene Glycol (RV Antifreeze) -100 if possible. (-50,will slush at +12F , but will have burst protection to -50F. -50 is most likely a 40/60 diluted mix with water, while a -100 would be a 60/40 mix).
Run the engine and pour the RV antifreeze into the sea strainer (with the thru hull closed and the water removed) or install a bronze (Groco) 3-way valve. Record how many gallons of Antifreeze it takes before it runs out of the exhaust port, so that you will know quantity for next year. ( If the lift muffler has a drain, and/or remaining antifreeze in the sea strainer, this "used antifreeze" can be then be used for the black water system.)

Repeat for Gen Set.

Drain the fresh water tank. Again a 3-way valve will make it easier if you plan on doing this in following years.

Drain the water heater and install a water heater bypass from the cold to hot lines. ( 3-way valves)

Drain all in-line filters.

Install a port ( 3-way valve) just aft of the fresh water pump and used compressed air, adjusted to no more than 40 PSI, to blow all lines. Start with the spigot/faucet that is the farthest away. Fresh water bow wash down maybe, and repeat for every faucet (both hot and cold) heading back to the pump, Do not forget the toilet if it is a fresh water flush. Drain all inline filters again. List every faucet outlet, filter etc. on your list for check off.

Make sure that the line from the tank to the pump is totally drained, filters etc. Make sure that the pump is drained or add a port upstream of the pump and run antifreeze through the pump.

Dishwasher, Washing Machine, Ice maker etc.
Do not forget the windshield washer if it is plumbed into the fresh water system.

Repeat for Sea water pump, do not forget toilet if sea water flush.

If you feel that you blew the lines well enough, OK. OR, repeat the blow out procedure using a little RV Antifreeze to make sure. I made a canister that installs between the compressor air hose and the inlet at the water line, that I can add some antifreeze into and repeat blowing all of the blow previously blown outlets.

Winterize water maker and pumps.

Make sure all sea water strainers are drained and remove water from bilge.

With the "used" antifreeze from the engine, pour some into toilet, both to tank and overboard. Do not forget macerator.
Add a little "used" into all sea strainers and bilge. If any sinks have a trap, pour in "used". Bath drains and pump out sump etc.

Blow all deck drains in case there is a water trap.

Open all thru hulls.

Keep the current year checked off list on board for reference later.

In the spring, use list to commission.

Hope this helps.

 

[grandbanksbayfield]

If your engine has interior, permanent antifreeze, like 50 - 50 glycol you do not need to winterize it any more that you would winterize a car. If the engine is cooled by pumping that liquid out through a heat exchanger and then back into the engine, you MUST winterize the heat exchanger system which normally sucks in lake or ocean water and then dumps it into the exhaust.

 

[SeaDogAK]

If your engine has interior, permanent antifreeze, like 50 - 50 glycol you do not need to winterize it any more that you would winterize a car. If the engine is cooled by pumping that liquid out through a heat exchanger and then back into the engine, you MUST winterize the heat exchanger system which normally sucks in lake or ocean water and then dumps it into the exhaust.

This is not necessarily true. Ocean water freezes at around 28 degrees F. As long as the water is liquid, it can’t be below the freezing point. Except in the coldest places, the air may get much colder than that, but the water will stay much warmer than the air. So your engine room, which is mostly below the water line, will not get much colder than the temperature of the water that surrounds it. That’s why I run a small heater in the engine room and I don’t worry about the engines or raw water cooling system freezing.

Certainly there are places where the ocean freezes, but not most places. It might be a different story if your boat is in fresh water in a cold location, where it will freeze solid.

 

[SteveK]

The other day it was 9*C outside so I checked seawater temp and it was 13*C.
Nice heating pad to sit the boat on. Plug the air vents to the engine room and it will remain warmer than outside just from seawater heating the hull.