Urine separating/desiccating toilets
- Thread starter MurrayM
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OP
OP
MurrayM
Guru
Cool...will think about diverting urine through watermaker to supplement potable water
Just add yeast and make some Budweiser
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
We never empty the holding tank!
There s not a darn thing wrong with using a Marine treatment system in a situation like you describe.
If that little bit of your own properly treated waste in unacceptable to you, that is of course your decision.
Then you will probably happy with your coconut fiber or kitty litter solution.
OP
OP
MurrayM
Guru
Why do people get their panties into such a knot over this stuff?
You may have the disposable income to chuck a bunch of money at the problem and a cavernous space for all that equipment. We went for "happy and humble" so would prefer spending that kind of money elsewhere, and the space where the holding tank now sits could be used for a better purpose.
dhays
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Murray,
Good luck with the endeavor and let us know how it works out once you get it installed. It wouldn't be my choice, but I'm certainly not offended by it being your choice.
Good luck with the endeavor and let us know how it works out once you get it installed. It wouldn't be my choice, but I'm certainly not offended by it being your choice.
OP
OP
MurrayM
Guru
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
Hmmm...
We removed the holding tank from our 24' Bayliner 2452 and installed a Raritan electroscan. A simple system that is still holding up today. (We know the owners).
The only modifaction to that boat that required money was the thousand dollars for the Electroscan MSD.
I'd bet you'll be more than that into your new marine sanitation system, so I'm guessing that although you infer it's a money or space issue, that it's something else.
What ever decision you make, it's your personal decision. You made it a public decision, open for discussion when you started this thread. Just don't try to tell me it's a space or a "disposable income" issue, as it clearly is not.
Each to his own, as long as I'm upwind
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OP
OP
MurrayM
Guru
Hmmm...
We removed the holding tank from our 24' Bayliner 2452 and installed a Raritan electroscan. A simple system that is still holding up today. (We know the owners).
The only modifaction to that boat that required money was the thousand dollars for the Electroscan MSD.
I'd bet you'll be more than that into your new marine sanitation system, so I'm guessing that although you infer it's a money or space issue, that it's something else.
What ever decision you make, it's your personal decision. You made it a public decision, open for discussion when you started this thread. Just don't try to tell me it's a space or a "disposable income" issue, as it clearly is not.
Each to his own, as long as I'm upwind
It'll be less than $200.00 or a whopping $350.00 (Canadian) if I get the solar day/night fan.
Discussion implies an exchange of questions, answers, and ideas in the search for mutual understanding. Not much of that in this thread.
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Thanks. Will do
I'm with Dave here Murray, and can sympathise re the issues that conventional marine loos can pose. So good luck with your plan. As others have said, please keep us informed.
In our case lack of access to pump-out facilities, pump-out macerator pump never self-priming, when it should - then corroding out, no room to put in a Raritan type of treatment plant, and constant issues arising because of infrequent use of the system we had, drove me to find an alternative. For us, being used to using a portable Porta Potti type loo from our trailer yachting days, I blanked everything off, (but a future owner could easily restore same), and went that route. No regrets so far at all. And, being treated, (here anyway - ? about in your waters), it can be dumped into the domestic sewerage system or out in reasonably open water, or taken ashore and buried..?
Did you seriously consider a system like this..? Going by your comments re your plans in the near future, the ease of disposal, but simplicity of containment, and no need to separate liquid from more solid waste, might have been positive aspects to going over to a portable type...?
Peter I know your selling your boat did you ever seriously consider the negative side to selling ?
OP
OP
MurrayM
Guru
Hi Peter,
No we didn't dwell on the porta-potti type for very long.
There's no problem separating the urine from the poop, unless your manhood is somehow threatened by sitting down to pee. Nature has aligned both men's and women's liquid and solid waste delivery systems to send their products in the same directions while seated.
Also, there's no smell other than an earthy loaminess if things are working well.
Blanking things off is a good idea in case the next owner wants a regular head. Will keep the holding tank under the deck in the back yard for re-sale time. Thanks for the tip!
No we didn't dwell on the porta-potti type for very long.
There's no problem separating the urine from the poop, unless your manhood is somehow threatened by sitting down to pee. Nature has aligned both men's and women's liquid and solid waste delivery systems to send their products in the same directions while seated.
Also, there's no smell other than an earthy loaminess if things are working well.
Blanking things off is a good idea in case the next owner wants a regular head. Will keep the holding tank under the deck in the back yard for re-sale time. Thanks for the tip!
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Not quite sure which negative you're referring to Gaston.
If you mean letting go of a boat and not having one being negative? Yes, sure. Think of that every day, but my frugal retirement is not going to support maintaining a boat.
If you mean having a portable loo being a negative from a resale point of view? Yes. Thought about that also, hence just capping everything off, and I'd throw the TMC with new macerator pump installed in with the boat. If the new owner wanted to track down the blockages, and get the (also new) bloody pump-out pump to work, he's welcome.
However, in our boating area, he would almost certainly still be left with the dilemma of having to illegally pump out the holding tank, which is still in there but just half full of water at present, because we have so few and far between pump out facilities. The 'brilliant' authorities that set in place legislation requiring holding tanks, etc, omitted to legislate for marinas to have to provide the means to empty them. It is a 2 hour trip for me to reach so-called open water to legally pump out. So that would be so for the majority of other owners. Go figure...
Id say you may as well fix the system now and enjoy it because come survey the cost of putting it back to working condition will be yet another thing that will be negotiated and the cost will be higher then than now. And sorry to say if read in the sale pitch porto potty fitted I wouldn't even consider . What make you think only a local would purchase your boat
But remember I'm cultural bias
So, all disagreement is cultural bias? Well, I fully admit to being culturally biased. I like cleanliness. I recognize the diseases spread through fecal waste. I also have read Peggie's book and have made decisions to select dependable equipment and provide means of servicing it. We've had no more problems with toilets on our boats than in homes and certainly less than most office buildings I've been to over the years. We do carefully explain the facts of marine toilets just as we do explain many other things about boats. Now, we admittedly have one major advantage and that is all our toilets have been purchased by us new. None have needed to be replaced yet. My cultural bias which I'm proud of would absolutely never let me go to the litter box method you use. If I had cats I'd attempt to train them to use toilets and, yes, I have known people to do so very successfully.
markpierce
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Other options are to "hold it" until coming ashore or do it directly overboard. Haven't yet practiced those options.
Thinking about this Culturally Bias thing I'm going to wear this new hat with pride . I like the fact of owning a boat that I can ask people aboard and entertain them without giving a 20 min lecture in 3rd world usage of my marine pit toilet and not feel embarrassed that the stench isn't making guests feel sick.
And BandB If I had cats I'd attempt drown them but not in it toilet they tend to block the macerator pump.
And BandB If I had cats I'd attempt drown them but not in it toilet they tend to block the macerator pump.
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Careful Gaston. You're teetering on the edge, and I don't mean a toilet...there are a lot of pet lovers on here. Some might even belong to the RSPCA.
FF
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We lived with a composting toilet for 5 years or so , and most of the negativity seem to come from folks that never have even seen one.
The units use a tiny fan that speeds the drying , so the waste material is basically dry and when the new deposit is made,, the mixing with a turn crank (like flushing a mechanical boat toilet) dries the deposit rapidly so,, no smell.
I guess if you stuck your nose IN the outside vent there might be an aroma for a while , never tried.
The only and big hassle of a composting toilet is the liquid tank that must be emptied a couple of times a week.
For an almost forever maint. free toilet setup the RV toilets are the answer , IF the toilet can be over the holding tank.
1/10 to 1 /20 the pump outs required and an almost limitless component life.
The units use a tiny fan that speeds the drying , so the waste material is basically dry and when the new deposit is made,, the mixing with a turn crank (like flushing a mechanical boat toilet) dries the deposit rapidly so,, no smell.
I guess if you stuck your nose IN the outside vent there might be an aroma for a while , never tried.
The only and big hassle of a composting toilet is the liquid tank that must be emptied a couple of times a week.
For an almost forever maint. free toilet setup the RV toilets are the answer , IF the toilet can be over the holding tank.
1/10 to 1 /20 the pump outs required and an almost limitless component life.
Never having used one, I still have a couple of questions about these toilets.
Are urine separating/desiccating toilets the same as what's often called a "composting" toilet?
If you contain the urine in some sort of tank or bottle, is it legal to dump that over the side within the three-mile limit?
Are urine separating/desiccating toilets the same as what's often called a "composting" toilet?
If you contain the urine in some sort of tank or bottle, is it legal to dump that over the side within the three-mile limit?
The only thing you described were parts in the toilet...and while the toilet at home is just an appliance, on a boat it's only one component in a system and is actually the one that requires the least amount of preventive maintenance.
How diligent are you about preventing sea water mineral buildup in sea water toilet piping...regularly flushing out your holding tank to remove sludge, and also flushing out macerator plumbing and pump...preventing a blockage in the tank vent line and thru-hull...cleaning or replacing air valves in vented loops...keeping y-valves and seacocks well lubricated...
Or do you just cure those problems as the occur instead of preventing 'em? Maintaining the entire system may seem like a lot of work, but prevention is almost always easier--and cheaper!--than cure.
Ah, this is an important statement that would have changed the thread if in the original post.
Such a system would undoubtedly let you spend more time at anchorages, by extending both you holding time as well as cutting down on water needs, both of which are a premium on a smaller boat.
Hope the new system works out for you.
Jim
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Ms. HM. You appear to be having a bit of a comprehension problem WRT our "septic" service/maintenance regime. The "parts" of our system I referred to have been the ONLY items that needed addressing in the last 12 years so by inference and satisfactory performance, the REST of the system is being serviced properly. I have had ONE issue with a shoreside pumpout which was quickly and easily addressed (mud dauber clogging vent).
I am fully aware of the causes and management of mineral/sludge buildup in pumps, maceraters and hoses well as the holding tank and EVERY sea cock is easily operable and accessible.
Ms. HM. You appear to be having a bit of a comprehension problem WRT our "septic" service/maintenance regime. The "parts" of our system I referred to have been the ONLY items that needed addressing in the last 12 years so by inference and satisfactory performance, the REST of the system is being serviced properly. I have had ONE issue with a shoreside pumpout which was quickly and easily addressed (mud dauber clogging vent).
I am fully aware of the causes and management of mineral/sludge buildup in pumps, maceraters and hoses well as the holding tank and EVERY sea cock is easily operable and accessible.
OP
OP
MurrayM
Guru
No. The purpose of a composting toilet is ultimately to use the waste material as compost, such as in a garden. A urine separating/desiccating toilet keeps those wastes apart so the solid waste can dry out and be disposed of in deep water or in a compostable garbage bag ashore.
In BC you only have to move to mid channel and dispose of waste on a falling tide. I would have to boat about 90 nautical miles from Kitimat to be 3 miles offshore. So, if one was to follow the rules explicitly (anybody here ever take a whiz over the side at anchor?) then the urine would be kept in a closed container until the next time we moved to a new anchorage.
OP
OP
MurrayM
Guru
Ahhh...we loved our 'bathrooms' with a view, perched on a log looking out over the water
Never had to use the bailing bucket while seated in the cockpit, which I think is what you're suggesting. Came close once though.
We were milking back eddies along rock walls to fight an adverse current, but had to wait for the tide to slow down around one point where the current was too strong for us to sprint around.
We clambered up a diagonal cleft in the rock to boil up a pack of Lipton rice and sauce for lunch. After lunch we got back into our boats to wait for the current to slow down, and I had the **IMMEDIATE** need to take a crap. My said she never saw me move so fast getting back to that cleft in the rock and clambering up into the forest.
That would have made a grim mess.
Donsan
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So, what happens to urine in a composting toilet? Does it become part of the compost?
OP
OP
MurrayM
Guru
Just took a look at Sun-Mar products, and they have a true composting toilet (gets emptied a couple times a year) and the urine drains through a stainless steel screen to an evaporation chamber. This chamber has to have an overflow container which gets emptied when there is too much urine for the evaporation process to deal with.
The Mobile unit meant for boats & RV's is pretty cool, but at $1,600.00 is pretty expensive and only rated for 1 person for full time use. I'll try low-tech first, but will keep this one in mind.
http://www.sun-mar.com/brochures/Composting%20Toilet%20Brochure_English.pdf
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