Where to live?

[Clivepc]

Leaving a boat unattended for months at a time is difficult. I remember one time my wife and I flew into San Francisco and got to the boat at 9PM. At least one rat had been aboard and made a total mess. We got a hotel for the night, and spent the weekend cleaning up and getting upholstery steam cleaned. Another time, someone had accidentally kicked-off my dock cord and the batteries were stone dead. I have a pretty long list of "and there was the time when....." stories from having been gone for a few months.

My boat was at Treasure Island Marina at the old US Naval Station Treasure Island halfway across the Bay Bridge. Although it's a great place to start a mini-cruise, it's a lousy place to visit on a vacation because there is not much there, and you need a car. For our last 6-months, we moved to Emeryville which had a shuttle bus to all sorts of places to eat, shop, drink, etc.

Now, I'm assuming you will not live on the boat full-time meaning you'll fly-in, perhaps for extended stays. But not all of your trips to the boat will involve heading out (I'm assuming you will continue to live in AZ) so even though little out-of-the-way towns along the Florida coast may have cheaper rates, if you're flying in, you'll burn up any savings on car rental and time, plus I'd get bored in these towns pretty quickly.

If I were in your shoes, I would probably look at something either in California or Sea of Cortez that you could conceivably drive to. San Carlos near Guaymus is a haul, but doable. You could dry-sail a boat (leave it on the hard while you're gone), and there's a decent ex-pat/cruiser community there. The cruising is pretty remote in the SoC, but should keep you happy for several years.

Winter cruising is better in Florida/Bahamas than SoC so if your heart is set on Florida, and if you do not plan to live near the boat full-time, I'd look to see if there are places you can dry-sail a larger boat. That would bring your costs way down, and would be easier on the boat. Possible some marinas may have a back-lot.

Good luck.

Peter

Peter, everything you say here makes sense. The more think about it the more i believe my idea of a 30ft Trailer boat to explore all these areas.
I think we'll either dig the trailer trawler idea, or find the sweet spot for a larger boat. I do have some questions about San Carlos. Is towing there a safe prospect?
Have you been there? Had a couple i met some time ago raved about it.

 

[mvweebles]

Peter, everything you say here makes sense. The more think about it the more i believe my idea of a 30ft Trailer boat to explore all these areas.
I think we'll either dig the trailer trawler idea, or find the sweet spot for a larger boat. I do have some questions about San Carlos. Is towing there a safe prospect?
Have you been there? Had a couple i met some time ago raved about it.

Before I decided to refit Weebles, I thought about a different boat. It's pretty easy go put a 25 footer on a lift, possible to put a 30 footer on a lift. There's a lot to be said for putting a boat on a lift in Florida. We are okay wit s.aller boats and glamping. I considered a Rosborough 26. But in the end, the boat I kept coming back to was an Albin 31 Tournament Express. Diesel, plenty if fuel to scoot down to Dry Tortugas at 15 kts burning a reasonable amount of fuel, and decent accommodations for a couple for a week or so. Any of these would be easy to dry-sail or keep on a trailer

San Carlos. It's been 20 years since I've been there. A fellow Willard owner (W40) keeps his boat there. He regularly drives down with a trailer of stuff. My understanding is it's safe, but I would check out with some local expat types. A lot of folks from AZ drive down frequently. It's a cute town, and not far from Guaymus that is a relatively big city. Back in the early 90s, I dragged my Catalina 22 sailboat down Baja a couple times. I also used to beach camp in Baja over the holidays in my old VW westfailia. I like the desert and desolation so Baja was cool back then. I recently drove 100 mils south of Ensenada and it was built up with a ton of corporate farms. Not sure how far down development goes.

Good luck

Peter

 

[Mortensi]

Florida is like a giant multi layered cake, with each layer being a separate economic, ethnic, and social group with their own reality and social mores, all living on top and below each other. You have the billionaires on the top who live in coastal mega mansions, and/or super highrises, and ranches inland. They fly jets and helicopters everywhere, They look down on millionaires as riff raft wannabes because they’re all proud (as they deserve to be) but puff out their chests like roosters demanding they be given the respect they deserve. Everyone else just laughs. Their sub divisions are spread as far as the eye can see, along both coasts.
Then there’s the different ethnic groups in their neighborhoods. These are what you mostly see from I-95. North Florida is called ‘Lower Alabama or Lower Georgia’, which has the same layers of cake as the rest, but the billionaires likely drive $100k pickup trucks, and their wives dress very modestly. They have planes too, and probably in their backyards. Most people would be surprised to learn how many Aero Communities there are here. Pretty great place to live if you own a plane.
Then it goes layer to layer -all the way down to the criminal (drug addicts, felons, and ne’er-do-wells) classes. We’re ALL living together, most all carrying guns, and generally everything is cool, and exciting. But here’s the thing I’m leading up to: It’s ALL SUPPLY and DEMAND when it comes to Real Estate, and the demand is now super high due to the huge influx from other states. Prices are INSANE (but will never go down) because of Covid refugees. Houses in flat out dangerous hoods have jumped from $45k to $175k in towns people used to totally avoid. Developers are now building subdivisions in Belle Glade for God’s sake! Price a old trailer in Okeechobee!! Forget the urban areas, they’ve long ago “gentrified” with skateboarding hipsters obliviously weaving their way through the junkies passed out on the street, and the ATV riding dreadlocked gangs going about their business. Oh, forgot to mention-that many of those big homes in (what appear to be nice subdivisions) actually have many different families living in them (those being priced out of the towns aren’t stupid, nor are they leaving Florida) which explains ALL the cars you see in their yards. WHICH ALL leads to INSURANCE RATES. Holy ****, it’s insanely high and going higher for autos, boats, and especially homes.
Florida has no State income tax, but our property taxes are pretty damn high.
Wait there’s more. Florida leads the US in lightning strikes, and in central Florida-leads the world. So if you have what it takes, sure c’mon on down and start playing the game.

 

[BandB]

Before I decided to refit Weebles, I thought about a different boat. It's pretty easy go put a 25 footer on a lift, possible to put a 30 footer on a lift. There's a lot to be said for putting a boat on a lift in Florida.

In South Florida, there are lifts handling boats up to 40' for indoor dry storage.

 

[FF]

I understand the fun in having a novel tiny tug boat but there are far better choices for trailer cruising.

First in a size that can easily be ramp launched about 25- 28 ft the boats bean will be narrow enough to not require a wide load permit .You can go anywhere when you want.

Second the boat will be light enough to have the choice of 5K or 25K cruising.

Sure the fuel bill will be higher at 20K+, but for a half day , so what?

To enjoy the lifestyle of most trawler folks the boat should be able to anchor out for a couple of days , and have cockpit or some outside space to enjoy .

 

[Clivepc]

I understand the fun in having a novel tiny tug boat but there are far better choices for trailer cruising.

First in a size that can easily be ramp launched about 25- 28 ft the boats bean will be narrow enough to not require a wide load permit .You can go anywhere when you want.

Second the boat will be light enough to have the choice of 5K or 25K cruising.

Sure the fuel bill will be higher at 20K+, but for a half day , so what?

To enjoy the lifestyle of most trawler folks the boat should be able to anchor out for a couple of days , and have cockpit or some outside space to enjoy .

I understand your comments here FF, but having been on an 8ft beam and then the 10, the 10 ft is way nicer. I really want to spend some time on the boat and everyone I speak to who's moved up to the 10ft beam doesn't regret it.
I think we are pretty set now on a cutwater 30 CB with the D6 Volvo.
She returns great fuel economy at slow speeds but is capable of 25K with a small change in GPM. I go back and forth on the outboards offered, but can't imagine wanting or needing to go 40K and would prefer the better fuel burn at low speeds on the diesel, also like the bigger swim platform, shorter LOA, plus less parts to break!
I have a commercial license and a large diesel truck, that plus loving a road trip and towing, the only real obstacle I see is cost. But most of those Rangers and Cutwaters really hold their value, so it's the initial outlay that hurts. Finding the right one is the real challenge!
Cheers,
TBW

 

[Clivepc]

Eeek! Looks like I pushed a button there!
Sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone. I was just saying I'm not worried about towing a boat a couple of feet wider or with a permit. Also sorry if I offended any other way. I guess I should ask around what size brand and cost of boat to buy! LOL.
Forgive my ignorance but I'm not sure on the flag reference?

Listen, again, didn't mean to offend. Anytime you are up in Idaho look us up.
TBW.

Maybe I pushed a button earlier in my previous reply with the liberal comment. That wasn't cool of me and frankly I'm the first one to try and keep politics and religion out of social arena's. I shouldn't have brought that up, apologies.
TBW

 

[FF]

With non commercial towing there is in most states a limit to the LOA of the combination.

A commercial truck with a driver with a CDL does not have these restrictions.

The beam of the boat can make it feel bigger , but for a week of rain onboard the internal layout and seating is more important. Real comfort requires real seats , with springs , a cushion on a slab of plywood gets old in an hour.

The ability to self launch at a ramp is a valuable asset.

 

[Clivepc]

With non commercial towing there is in most states a limit to the LOA of the combination.

A commercial truck with a driver with a CDL does not have these restrictions.

The beam of the boat can make it feel bigger , but for a week of rain onboard the internal layout and seating is more important. Real comfort requires real seats , with springs , a cushion on a slab of plywood gets old in an hour.

The ability to self launch at a ramp is a valuable asset.

FF,
All great points. I've researched the permit deal and feel its worth the effort for the added volume. Also, My wife, although a sailor of several years, does not like "Tippy" Boats. We had a trimaran for a few years and she'd be happily reading a magazine no matter how sporty it was, but since we got the mono hull I've realized if I want to keep my retirement boating dreams alive, I need to keep the Admiral happy.
The more comfortable and stable she is on a smaller boat, the more chance I have of winning her over for the Winter liveaboard.
We sea trialed a ranger R27 2 years back, and a Cutwater C302 the same day. No comparison. The 302 felt twice the size.
Thanks again,
TBW.

 

[Clivepc]

FF,
All great points. I've researched the permit deal and feel its worth the effort for the added volume. Also, My wife, although a sailor of several years, does not like "Tippy" Boats. We had a trimaran for a few years and she'd be happily reading a magazine no matter how sporty it was, but since we got the mono hull I've realized if I want to keep my retirement boating dreams alive, I need to keep the Admiral happy.
The more comfortable and stable she is on a smaller boat, the more chance I have of winning her over for the Winter liveaboard.
We sea trialed a ranger R27 2 years back, and a Cutwater C302 the same day. No comparison. The 302 felt twice the size.
Thanks again,
TBW.

P.S. And twice as comfortable. especially the state room island berth, very nice for a 30 ft boat..

 

[Alaskaflyer]

P.S. And twice as comfortable. especially the state room island berth, very nice for a 30 ft boat..

And I believe that the guest berth can actually accommodate two people down below though cozy. On the Ranger you might fit two small children down there otherwise one adult, until you get to the models with the wider beam.

 

[Bellakins]

Chris, all of the places you mentioned are some of the same ones we would recommend. We lived in Edgewater on the South River, then moved down to NC and are on a deep creek right off the ICW. Our boat is parked at our own dock behind the house. There are so many great places for boaters to live near the ICW and the ones mentioned area all great.

 

[Captain DJ]

Peter, everything you say here makes sense. The more think about it the more i believe my idea of a 30ft Trailer boat to explore all these areas.
I think we'll either dig the trailer trawler idea, or find the sweet spot for a larger boat. I do have some questions about San Carlos. Is towing there a safe prospect?
Have you been there? Had a couple i met some time ago raved about it.

I have lived in Sonora since 2010 and in San Carlos since early 2013. It is wonderful down here, but can get a bit too warm for us mid 90s F in June/July/August and September. Some years worse than others. It is growing and seems like a boom town in the last few years. Still great deals on houses and dry storage. But there does not seem to be an abundance of slips. They will undoubtedly build more.
It used to be about an 80% gringo community (respectfully people North of the Border, US & Canada) but that is changing and I think it is 50/50 Mexicans/Gringos now most of the year and 80/20 for the Mexicans in the Summer months. We enjoy living there and I cannot imagine moving back to the US now with all that is going on. Trailering is EASY, there is a Toll Road and commercial entry Mariposa Rd. just West on Nogales and a Bypass around Hermosillo. Typically in a car or truck 4 hrs. With a big trailer plan on 5-6 maybe. Just watch out for the topes (speed breakers) and NEVER drive at night if you can avoid it. Livestock on the road and topes get hard to spot, so do Mexican vehicles without lights.
You may need to pay for a TIP, Temporary Import Permit for your boat. But that is an easy process that can be done in Guaymas (10-15 minutes from San Carlos). Actually San Carlos is part of Guaymas. Should it grow to have its own municipality, it will make property values escalate quickly. Also they are about to break ground on a new upscale hospital in San Carlos which is awesome. Healthcare here is much better than the US at 5-10% of the cost or even less.
Cost of living is easily half of typical AZ and maybe 1/3 of CA. You do not need to speak Spanish, but trying some helps. Let me know if you get serious about it, I would be glad to help.
My email is MexicoEcoResort@gmail.com
Darrin & Cheri Jones

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Pg7JXciU3jdJGBEX8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YgooiV2ztppB4eMk8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2wEzU8W7xyViPQL26
You can even come and stay at my hotel...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HRokrGdwex6jRyVG8

Good Luck and may you find happiness wherever you choose.

DJ

 

[Clivepc]

And I believe that the guest berth can actually accommodate two people down below though cozy. On the Ranger you might fit two small children down there otherwise one adult, until you get to the models with the wider beam.

Agreed. The R29 is close to the C30 but the C30 has the larger motor, larger holding tanks, a shower enclosure, and other adds.

 

[Clivepc]

I have lived in Sonora since 2010 and in San Carlos since early 2013. It is wonderful down here, but can get a bit too warm for us mid 90s F in June/July/August and September. Some years worse than others. It is growing and seems like a boom town in the last few years. Still great deals on houses and dry storage. But there does not seem to be an abundance of slips. They will undoubtedly build more.
It used to be about an 80% gringo community (respectfully people North of the Border, US & Canada) but that is changing and I think it is 50/50 Mexicans/Gringos now most of the year and 80/20 for the Mexicans in the Summer months. We enjoy living there and I cannot imagine moving back to the US now with all that is going on. Trailering is EASY, there is a Toll Road and commercial entry Mariposa Rd. just West on Nogales and a Bypass around Hermosillo. Typically in a car or truck 4 hrs. With a big trailer plan on 5-6 maybe. Just watch out for the topes (speed breakers) and NEVER drive at night if you can avoid it. Livestock on the road and topes get hard to spot, so do Mexican vehicles without lights.
You may need to pay for a TIP, Temporary Import Permit for your boat. But that is an easy process that can be done in Guaymas (10-15 minutes from San Carlos). Actually San Carlos is part of Guaymas. Should it grow to have its own municipality, it will make property values escalate quickly. Also they are about to break ground on a new upscale hospital in San Carlos which is awesome. Healthcare here is much better than the US at 5-10% of the cost or even less.
Cost of living is easily half of typical AZ and maybe 1/3 of CA. You do not need to speak Spanish, but trying some helps. Let me know if you get serious about it, I would be glad to help.
My email is MexicoEcoResort@gmail.com
Darrin & Cheri Jones

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Pg7JXciU3jdJGBEX8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YgooiV2ztppB4eMk8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2wEzU8W7xyViPQL26
You can even come and stay at my hotel...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HRokrGdwex6jRyVG8

Good Luck and may you find happiness wherever you choose.

DJ

Cap DJ, this is great information and encouraging.
Like I said, I heard great things about San Carlos. I'll keep your info and for sure reach out at the right time. Again, I think the trailer boat for exploring makes sense first, but my ultimate aim is to have a liveaboard Winter time boat so we for sure need to check out your neck of the woods once we find the right boat, hopefully within the next 12 months. Just need it to show its self.!
Cheers,
TBW (Clive)

 

[Bryant]

Icw

Hello out there!
This is a very general request for information aimed at those folks who either live on or close to the southern part of the ICWW or have experience traveling and staying there.
We currently live in AZ, having just moved there from the Pac NW. We are inland sailors with limited offshore and larger motor vessel experience.
We intend to purchase a trailer trawler to do some exploring over the next 4-5 years, (R29/CW30) then eventually purchase a larger yacht, say 42-55 ft, that we will keep somewhere on the southern ICWW, or close to, which will be our liveaboard second home. We aim to explore the ICWW, Bahamas, and hopefully do the loop.
(Being a practical guy, and cheap, I’m hoping for a nice older vessel with good running gear and bones that we can refit ourselves. We are home designers and builders and I see great opportunity in some of these older boats)
Anyway, back to the requested information.
We would like advice on where to look for areas that might suit us, and our boat/home, requirements, when the time comes. We understand that what suits one person might not suite others, so here is a basic list or what WE would prefer.
1: We are not wealthy people, so will be looking for decent facilities with reasonable monthly fees, not ritzy.
2: We would like an area where there is chance to be part of a community of likeminded folks.
(Also not done with sailing yet)
3: We would like somewhere warm/er in the winter, and we prefer, quieter towns, so not Miami for instance.
4: Don’t mind being inland a ways, as long as it’s not too far to the coast.
Lastly, we feel generally safer in the continental U.S. but would certainly consider slightly farther out if there was a good expat community and facilities, although Hurricanes are a factor having been in one.
Heard great things about the Sarasota area, SC, Keys..
We realize we are talking about a large area, but we are sure there must be a wealth of knowledge out there on great areas to live and store a vessel. (Maybe there are other forums you could suggest?)
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.
Many thanks Clive (The Bolton Wanderer) and Monica Culpan.

Jacksonville, Fl. Reasonable Marina costs. Access to ICW. Not prone to hurricanes. St John's River as added cruising bonus.

 

[hatchetjoe]

St Marys, GA

As you said in your introduction, you have to decide on your most important priorities. I'll put in a suggestion for St. Marys, GA, the southern most port in Georgia before crossing the river and being in Fernandina Beach, Florida. Major pluses: very friendly small town, about one mile to ICW, another mile to the St. Marys inlet to the Atlantic Ocean (a large, easy, and safe inlet), low cost of living, about 8 miles to I-95, next to Cumberland Island National Seashore (east) and about 30 miles to Okefenokee Swamp National Wildlife Refuge (west), and our immediate portion of the ICW is maintained at a 45 foot depth so that the US Navy can get their submarines to King's Bay Naval Base. Easy day runs on the ICW to Jacksonville or St Augustine, FL to the south or north to Brunswick or St. Simon Island, GA. I've been told that Georgia has lower marine insurance and taxes than Florida. Negatives: we don't have a good public marina now but one is supposedly being built and for many "city" things like fine dining or an airport we drive to Jacksonville.

 

[ranger58sb]

Chris, all of the places you mentioned are some of the same ones we would recommend. We lived in Edgewater on the South River, then moved down to NC and are on a deep creek right off the ICW. Our boat is parked at our own dock behind the house. There are so many great places for boaters to live near the ICW and the ones mentioned area all great.

Maybe we were neighbors! We're right behind the historic Publik House.

-Chris

 

[timb7734]

Personally I would buy a bigger boat which would be comfortable longer term to live aboard. If leaving it for a time try Brunswick GA for the hurricane and hot season in Florida, and save about 1/2 on the hull insurance.

From there cruise all Florida, a week to Stuart, another few days across the ICW to Fort Myers, overnight from Stuart to the Abacos, overnight from Fort Myers to the Keys. Having done all this in a 7 knot but spacious trawler, we settled on Fort Myers for the best combination of winter weather, cultural amenities, and transport access and we moved here last year after 10 years of living aboard in winters.

 

[FF]

When researching , be sure to try to get at least 20 miles from a working paper mill , which can have an unpleasant aroma.

Look for a low current area to make docking less exciting.

 

[Mortensi]

When researching , be sure to try to get at least 20 miles from a working paper mill , which can have an unpleasant aroma.

Look for a low current area to make docking less exciting.

Truth!! Maybe even 40 miles. Stench is why cheap places to live are so cheap.
Then there’s noise from planes, trains, and automobiles. Some areas are very quiet, some (Space Coast) are horribly loud 24/6. Sound blows in the wind like smoke. To see who your neighbors (my aforementioned “layers of the cake”) are-go visit the nearest Walmart.
How do you feel about cars with super loud thumping bass? In Miami, many boat owners pride themselves on theirs, especially as they come home at 5 am. Don’t even get me going about gas powered leaf blowers!!

 

[BandB]

When researching , be sure to try to get at least 20 miles from a working paper mill , which can have an unpleasant aroma.

Look for a low current area to make docking less exciting.

Check the area and the roads to and from day and night and weekends. Talk to neighbors. And do check water levels year round as well as flood and storm history. You may find pleasant surprises, but you may find the secret reason to the incredible deal. It may be the bridge you can't get under or the water that's too shallow some months or it may be the air pollution of smell or ash on occasion or the dangerous chemical business next door. Or may just be the crazy family next door.

 

[FF]

In coastal towns a real eye opener can be the flood level notices posted near the water.

Look at the marina or property to estimate how it would fare with an extra 10 or 15 ft of water.

 

[BandB]

In coastal towns a real eye opener can be the flood level notices posted near the water.

Look at the marina or property to estimate how it would fare with an extra 10 or 15 ft of water.

You don't have to guess how much extra water either, except to know it's rising from historic levels. However, the US flood maps are very useful and give you good 100 year data. The data may surprise you favorably or unfavorably. For instance, you have 15' rise on the north side of Lake Pontchartrain and our home in Fort Lauderdale hasn't reached 6'. Things are not as naturally intuitive as one might think.

Also don't take gossip or guesses on hurricane history. While next year may be different, entire histories are available and are fairly pinpointed if you research. In Florida, 40 miles can be vastly different.

On the lake I grew up on, there were lots that went for sale every spring when the water was at it's peak, a full pool, when normal was 4 to 5' below full pool. These nice waterfront lots had 6' of depth then. Every once in a while one of them sold.

I've heard people so upset over the rush hour traffic into Miami from various islands so crossing various bridges. They didn't realize there was only one way into town? Then those at other times so distraught over being held up by bridge openings. Guess the entire water and boats thing surprised them. No worse than those in high traffic areas on the ICW constantly complaining about wakes. They bought the home for the beautiful view of all the passing boats.

 

[billdomb]

We dock at Riviera Beach City Marina, about the closest you can get to the Bahamas right through the nearby cut.
Reasonable is hard to define, but, compared to most of the surrounding spots, RBCM is significantly less AND tolerates liveaboards.

 

[JLD]

Maybe not as critical when finding a marina, but airplane noise could be a factor to consider when building a house.

The house that we are currently renting is on the secondary landing approach to BWI airport and a couple of miles from the airport. We did know this prior to renting the house.

When we were looking for an area to build our retirement home, we ruled out several nice areas due to airplane noise. This is just one of the reasons that we purchased a lot in Delaware to build our new home.

Attached is a link to the National Transportation Noise Map for the lower 48 states. You can zoom in on any area on the map to see the noise levels for any specific area.

Jim