Unicorn Boat?

[Sababa]

My wife and I had a lot of fun looking at boats we would never want to own at the the Boats Afloat Show on South Lake Union over the weekend. She wants bright and airy salon, three sleeping cabins, separate sitting and dining settees, and lots of exterior lounging space. I want seaworthiness, long range, fuel efficiency, salty looks, and the ability to fit into a fifty foot slip. Most of the boats that checked her boxes at the show were overpowered, pod-drive euro trash. There really weren’t any that checked mine. The closest we came to a dream boat for both of us was looking at the brochures for the larger Linssen “variotop” Dutch steel cabriolets, though they are still a little long and lack range with the standard tankage.

Unfortunately, we have a wedding to go to the weekend of Trawler Fest so we won’t be able to do any tire kicking there. TF: does our dream boat exist?

 

[O C Diver]

TF: does our dream boat exist?

Yes, I'm cruising it.

Looking at boats when you have one is like looking at women when your married. If you trade your current one on a different one, you'll never stop looking, and trading.

Ted

 

[Sababa]

Yes, I'm cruising it.



Looking at boats when you have one is like looking at women when your married. If you trade your current one on a different one, you'll never stop looking, and trading.



Ted

Looks like the Cherubini Independence 45s have two sleeping cabins, not three, so not our unicorn boat.

I don’t think the analogy holds, at least for us. Our Nordic Tug 37 is perfect for this stage of our lives and we have no desire to swap it for another boat in the same class. We are looking forward to the nest emptying in three years (we hope) and (at least semi) retirement in seven or eight if we are lucky. We want something then that will be more comfortable and autonomous for months at a time, capable of going down the pacific coast to Mexico and eventually further through the canal to the Caribbean, East Coast, and the Loop. We want space for our special needs daughter to travel with us and still have room for other guests on board for short stints. We want to own the next boat until we are too old or get sick of boating (God forbid). We’ve got time to find the right one, and that’s the quest we are starting right now.

 

[slowgoesit]

As Ted stated, we're cruising in ours!

She has everything on your list (not your wife's) except the ability to fit into a 50' slip. She is registered 50, but is 57 overall including anchor pulpit and dingy on the aft davits. on the cruising down the Pacific coast to Mexico, and through the Panama Canal into the Caribbean, we'll let you know by the end of next year!

By that time, we should be in Bahamas, after doing exactly the trip you envision, and some up and down the East Coast as well. We have one HUGE master suite, and two small (ish) additional cabins. What we didn't have when we bought the boat, we've designed/built/added in the last 18 months, (solar, lithium, water maker, etc)

The down side, our boat, being a Robert Beebe designed Passagemaker, is somewhat of a unicorn, with not a lot of them around, so we may take a hit when we eventually sell.

Oh, and we have a range of over 4000 plus a reserve.

They're out there, and don't always break the bank.

 

[Sababa]

Sadly there is no chance of getting a boat that checks my boxes but not hers. I’ve tried to sell her on the Selene 53 and the Krogen 52 but she thinks they are too dark and gloomy inside. A down salon like in many of the Beebe designs would be right out of the question.

 

[Benthic2]

That's a pretty tall order. 3 Cabins and 2 settees under 50 feet is probably going to require some flexibility from 1 of you. If you are willing to make the cockpit your non dining sitting area I think the Beneteau Swift Trawler 48 checks all the rest of the boxes.

https://www.beneteau.com/en-us/swift-trawler/swift-trawler-48

 

[Benthic2]

 

[Simi 60]

Searched all my life for one

Built one, got close
Got half way into the build on a second bigger and better version and near killed me
Searched a decade more before getting our current vessel, closer than we've ever got but still not there yet.

Can a boatbuilder ever find that perfect boat?
I think we are more critical and demanding than most.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Just throw money at the search, you will find what you want.

I own my dream boat, I have for the past eight years. A couple more feet would be nice but length has drawbacks. You can't solve all problems by adding length.

pete

 

[tiltrider1]

I always wanted a unicorn. I wanted to ride it to school and be the coolest kid in class. I looked for years and never even saw a unicorn.

Then one day a unicorn just showed up. I didn’t recognize it at first. You see, I was so set on my perception that a unicorn was horse with a long straight horn on its head that I almost missed the real thing.

My unicorn turned out to be a sheep with one very crooked horn. While I have never rode this sheep, it does make the best cheese and I am now the coolest kid on the street with my crackers and fresh cheese.

 

[Old Sea Dog]

Just throw money at the search, you will find what you want.

I own my dream boat, I have for the past eight years. A couple more feet would be nice but length has drawbacks. You can't solve all problems by adding length.

pete

That's not what she said......

 

[ksanders]

On a more serious side you are asking a lot out of 50'. There are only a couple ways to divide the space.

You could go with a big aft cabin boat, but if your special needs daughter is mobility impaired an aft cabin might be difficult to access. But... an aft cabin boat provides a huge deck area that many enclose into a semi indoor area.

You could go with a galley up, salon up design but in 50' you do not have enough space to get three decent cabins since the cabins are forward of the galley/salon areas.

Go much bigger than 50' and you run into problems with slip availability.

My opinion is something needs to change in your criteria, remember all boats are a compromise.

 

[Sababa]

That's a pretty tall order. 3 Cabins and 2 settees under 50 feet is probably going to require some flexibility from 1 of you. If you are willing to make the cockpit your non dining sitting area I think the Beneteau Swift Trawler 48 checks all the rest of the boxes.

https://www.beneteau.com/en-us/swift-trawler/swift-trawler-48

Both the Beneteau 48 and the Greenline 48 come pretty close, but they are both overpowered semi-planing boats that lack the range to make it from Bellingham to Ketchikan or from Ensenada to Los Cabos without refueling. The interior fit and finish on both also leaves something to be desired. The railings and other exterior fittings on the Beneteau seemed pretty iffy to me as well.

Fifty foot slip usually lets you get away with up to 54’ LOA, or our YC does at least. That’s why the Linssens are in play. I’d also like to get her on an Elling E4 to see if she could live with the down salon with the skylight overhead.

https://www.ellingyachting.com/the-elling-motor-yacht-range/157726/elling-e4/

 

[Sababa]

On a more serious side you are asking a lot out of 50'. There are only a couple ways to divide the space.



You could go with a big aft cabin boat, but if your special needs daughter is mobility impaired an aft cabin might be difficult to access. But... an aft cabin boat provides a huge deck area that many enclose into a semi indoor area.



You could go with a galley up, salon up design but in 50' you do not have enough space to get three decent cabins since the cabins are forward of the galley/salon areas.



Go much bigger than 50' and you run into problems with slip availability.



My opinion is something needs to change in your criteria, remember all boats are a compromise.

Our special kid doesn’t have a mobility impairment and as I noted we could go up to 54’ at our current club. And it’s definitely possible to to get three sleeping cabins and offshore capability and range into a package under that length. The problem is that those who choose to do it seem to go all-in on passage making capability to the detriment of light, air, and flow in the living spaces. Those who give you the light and air also seem to want to include huge engines and limited fuel capacity. It doesn’t seem like you should only be able pick two.

 

[bowball]

Except for a few feet of length, Ocean Alexanders seem to meet many of the other requirements. I was watching the Boomershine video of their 56. To get your separate dining and sitting area, you need an 18’ plus beam I would think if walk around decks.

 

[rslifkin]

In that size range, many of the higher powered SD and planing hulls still have quite a bit of range if you slow down below hull speed. You just need to find one that handles well at the lower speeds.

How much range do you expect from the next boat?

 

[Benthic2]

Both the Beneteau 48 and the Greenline 48 come pretty close, but they are both overpowered semi-planing boats that lack the range to make it from Bellingham to Ketchikan or from Ensenada to Los Cabos without refueling. /[/url]

From Yachting Magazine:
For traditional trawler enthusiasts, the Beneteau Swift Trawler 48 offers a range of 1,300 nautical miles at a leisurely 6.7 knots, or 1,000 nm at 8 knots. Owners can run nonstop from New York to Miami or San Diego to Cabo San Lucas, Mexico.

And yet, with the twin 425 hp Cummins diesels on the Swift Trawler 48 that I got aboard (380 hp Cummins are standard), owners also can scamper for home at 26 knots, if foul weather threatens or reservations for dinner ashore are waiting.

In other words, yachtsmen can have the best of both worlds: range when wanted, speed when needed.

The OP was not specific when mentioning range but 1,000 nm seems pretty good considering this is a pretty restrictive set of requirements. I suppose "fit and finish" is pretty subjective but I've never heard anything bad about Beneteau. As for being "overpowered" that is also subjective as many people appreciate the ability to get up and go occasionally. As per Yachting Magazine, having the choice between 1300nm range and 26 knots is a nice choice to have.

 

[Sababa]

From Yachting Magazine:

For traditional trawler enthusiasts, the Beneteau Swift Trawler 48 offers a range of 1,300 nautical miles at a leisurely 6.7 knots, or 1,000 nm at 8 knots. Owners can run nonstop from New York to Miami or San Diego to Cabo San Lucas, Mexico.



And yet, with the twin 425 hp Cummins diesels on the Swift Trawler 48 that I got aboard (380 hp Cummins are standard), owners also can scamper for home at 26 knots, if foul weather threatens or reservations for dinner ashore are waiting.



In other words, yachtsmen can have the best of both worlds: range when wanted, speed when needed.



The OP was not specific when mentioning range but 1,000 nm seems pretty good considering this is a pretty restrictive set of requirements. I suppose "fit and finish" is pretty subjective but I've never heard anything bad about Beneteau. As for being "overpowered" that is also subjective as many people appreciate the ability to get up and go occasionally. As per Yachting Magazine, having the choice between 1300nm range and 26 knots is a nice choice to have.

I’ve always understood that it’s not good to run engines at such a low proportion of their rated capacity for long periods of time. But maybe that’s not as true for modern electronically controlled diesels. Regardless, I’d rather have a single or smaller twins and use the space for more fuel or something else.

 

[Sababa]

In that size range, many of the higher powered SD and planing hulls still have quite a bit of range if you slow down below hull speed. You just need to find one that handles well at the lower speeds.

How much range do you expect from the next boat?

Minimum would be 1200 nm at 7 knots. I’d prefer FD.

 

[rslifkin]

I’ve always understood that it’s not good to run engines at such a low proportion of their rated capacity for long periods of time. But maybe that’s not as true for modern electronically controlled diesels. Regardless, I’d rather have a single or smaller twins and use the space for more fuel or something else.

It depends on the engine and also the boat they're in. Some faster boats handle fine at low speed, some don't. And some engines are happy running lightly loaded while others aren't. For the Cummins QSBs in the ST48, it's been mentioned on here that the official word from Cummins is that as long as you're a few hundred RPM above idle, running them at low speeds is no problem. Just no long runs at idle.

 

[FWT]

My wife and I had a lot of fun looking at boats we would never want to own at the the Boats Afloat Show on South Lake Union over the weekend. She wants bright and airy salon, three sleeping cabins, separate sitting and dining settees, and lots of exterior lounging space. I want seaworthiness, long range, fuel efficiency, salty looks, and the ability to fit into a fifty foot slip. Most of the boats that checked her boxes at the show were overpowered, pod-drive euro trash. There really weren’t any that checked mine. The closest we came to a dream boat for both of us was looking at the brochures for the larger Linssen “variotop” Dutch steel cabriolets, though they are still a little long and lack range with the standard tankage.

Unfortunately, we have a wedding to go to the weekend of Trawler Fest so we won’t be able to do any tire kicking there. TF: does our dream boat exist?

You kinda answered your own question.

The only way to get that much living space in 50 ft. is to eliminate the engine room, stuff the engines under the cockpit lazarette and use pod drives, and use the engine room space for cabin space. And then go tall.

Even then I've not seen a euro boat that does that and fit into a 50 ft slip. But then I've not shopped for it either.

In some ways its like saying you are looking for a house with lots of bedrooms, lots of baths, a big kitchen and other rooms, and fit it into 1500 square feet. The math doesn't work. Add up the square footage of each desired room and it can't fit.

 

[CharlieO.]

You want a big Bayliner then? I think the larger Bayliner M/Y hits most of those marks.

 

[FWT]

I suspect the closest you will come is a North Pacific 49. But at 52 ft LOA I doubt it works in your slip.

The standard model can be had with 3 staterooms. The Euro style version has 2.

 

[ksanders]

Minimum would be 1200 nm at 7 knots. I’d prefer FD.

Why???

Where can you go with 1200NM of range that you could not go with 600?

You are placing a range requirement that is less than what is needed for
Passagemaking, but more than needed for Coastal Cruising.

 

[PNK]

Unicorn Boat

Our special kid doesn’t have a mobility impairment and as I noted we could go up to 54’ at our current club. And it’s definitely possible to to get three sleeping cabins and offshore capability and range into a package under that length. The problem is that those who choose to do it seem to go all-in on passage making capability to the detriment of light, air, and flow in the living spaces. Those who give you the light and air also seem to want to include huge engines and limited fuel capacity. It doesn’t seem like you should only be able pick two.

Take a look at the Krogen Express, should meet your club length limit but not sure if any were built with 3 cabins. The ones I have seen have 2, but they are beautiful boats, with good range and speed when you want it.

The first 3-cabin boat I would think of, though, is a Fleming 55, which would probably tick all your boxes except for length.

Doesn't sound like you are in a rush, and looking should be loads of fun.

PNK

 

[Sababa]

I suspect the closest you will come is a North Pacific 49. But at 52 ft LOA I doubt it works in your slip.

The standard model can be had with 3 staterooms. The Euro style version has 2.

Now that’s a great suggestion! I can do 52 LOA. She liked the 45 that was on display at the show but for the two sleeping cabins. Thanks!

 

[Sababa]

Take a look at the Krogen Express, should meet your club length limit but not sure if any were built with 3 cabins. The ones I have seen have 2, but they are beautiful boats, with good range and speed when you want it.



The first 3-cabin boat I would think of, though, is a Fleming 55, which would probably tick all your boxes except for length.



Doesn't sound like you are in a rush, and looking should be loads of fun.



PNK

She liked the Fleming 55. Lots of $$ and again over powered for my taste and just a hair too long. But very nice boats.

The process of looking is very fun, and it’s great to have a spouse who is just as interested if not fully aligned.

 

[Sababa]

Why???



Where can you go with 1200NM of range that you could not go with 600?



You are placing a range requirement that is less than what is needed for

Passagemaking, but more than needed for Coastal Cruising.

I had in mind Bellingham to Ketchikan and Ensenada to Los Cabos with ample reserve. My current NT37 will do 1200 but I could make do with 1000 to check all the other boxes.

 

[rslifkin]

Ensenada to Cabo would be the limiting spec in my mind. That's the longest run without easy fuel availability I know of anywhere on the North American coast. Pretty much anywhere else, you can get there easily with less range. More is only a convenience that allows skipping a fuel stop.

 

[bowball]

She liked the Fleming 55. Lots of $$ and again over powered for my taste and just a hair too long. But very nice boats.

The process of looking is very fun, and it’s great to have a spouse who is just as interested if not fully aligned.

And a Fleming 55 is actually over 60’ long.