Tug conversion

[JWellington]

Tugs make horrible conversions to yachts (real tugs like this small tug). Relatively deep draft, no interior room and fuel thirsty. Over sized fuel tanks, big deep gear ratio gearboxes etc.
Fishboats make better conversion candidates IMHO.

Some peple are fine with 40 foot boats, and so.e are fine with their tug conversions, Or like the 144footer pictured above. Its ironic you compare fishing boats as better conversions, since just a couple of weeks ago there was a thread where guys were tearing their hair out about how horrible fishing boats were. At the time I pointed out how Capt Cook was also told that his choice of collier boats was horrible to sail to the Galapagos. I wonder if some of them couldnt image what he would replace all that coal with instead.

 

[JWellington]

I have owned 2 HDPE boats. Stuff will grow on them if you leave them in the water. I didn’t leave them in the water but if I were going to I would have painted them. You have to flame the area to be painted in order to get the paint to stick to it.

Ill take your word for it, but its not what others say. Perhaps differnt types, or ages, etc.

 

[JWellington]

Nomad Willy,......thanks for all that...I guess. But re the boat in the OP, we dont even know its displacement. So we cant make any calculations. The only number I know is that I like 4-5kts.

 

[JWellington]

Too bad Mal Low isn't around anymore selling his small tug plans. Nice stuff

Dont know that guy but thanks, probably would be a good boat, as would many other small tugs. BTW, do you know anything about these HDPE hulls? Commodave below says plants stick to them, but I keep reading that they dont have to have antifouling. Of course if builders say that they could be lying. Or there could be diffetent grades of it, etc.

 

[Simi 60]

Wrong on the Silent yacts. They have two electric motors and one genset,

From the article

The boat we’re on is the E-Power version; there is a Cruiser with smaller electric motors and a Hybrid, which mates two 14kW electric motors to a pair of 220hp diesel engines.

and at least 10kw of solar panels.

I never denied they had solar

But if you want to call all those who actually have bought hybrid electric boats as fantasists, thats your problem.

Making stuff up or just comprehension fail?
I never said anything of the sort

 

[rgano]

Fair enough, but I think of it more as a van to rv. I like heavy, clunky looking boats. And it does have many attributes anyway. Foe example, with HDPE hulls, not only dont you have tp paint them, you dont even need antifouling.

Have you told the various biofouling critters this? HDPE running gear too?

 

[JWellington]

From the article


I never denied they had solar


Making stuff up or just comprehension fail?
I never said anything of the sort

I just looked it up again at...https://www.silent-yachts.com/silent55/.......and it says of the e-power oprion....2X 150kW e-motors....and one...150kW generator......225 kWh batteries.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

This new mini tug should be an interesting conversion to a livaboard cruiser. IZ 1205 HDPE

Curious to why you think this is a good conversion candidate? What features draw you to this type of boat to convert?

 

[Simi 60]

I just looked it up again at...https://www.silent-yachts.com/silent55/.......and it says of the e-power oprion....2X 150kW e-motors....and one...150kW generator......225 kWh batteries.

Still doesn't matter
It still only has a 6 knot cruise on electric

and a 150kw genset is 200+ hp
100hp a side in a diesel propulsion engine is going to give it a lot better than a 6 knot cruise speed

and then it has all that solar and huge 225kwh battery bank for running its niceties but of course it wont need anything like that, not even a small fraction of it
(we are upgrading to 840ah @ 24v that = 20kwh)
All that money saved will pay for a hell of a lot of diesel

Nice idea but the maths doesn't add up financially

 

[psneeld]

That comment might hurt the feelings of everybody out there with boats 40' or less. Re interior space, I had mentioned extending the roof...solar panels on top and galley/ salon inside...bunks below. Ive seen many living comfortably with such space. But certainly , for those who need 60 footers or whatever, then this size is no good.

You can't even decipher the original pics you posted.

My 40 ft trawler has about 5X the interior space and outside spaces are more usable.

I admire your dreams, not your realities.

 

[SteveK]

Two positives.
1) windshield is true Trawler
2) you will never have to worry about hitting a deadhead.

 

[Comodave]

We have owned 2 Triumph boats. They were rotocast HDPE. They were pretty amazing boats. They rode quite well since they flexed a bit underway so they didn’t slam much if at all. I have literally taken a sledge hammer and hit the hull as hard as I could and the sledge hammer just bounced off. It was a demonstration for a friend that told me since it was plastic it couldn’t be a durable as his fiberglass boat, but he wasn’t willing to let me hit his boat with the sledge. Triumph did give instructions on how to apply bottom paint to the boat. Basically you took a propane torch and flamed the areas to be painted. Just a pass over it to do something to the plastic to enable the paint to stick. They were great boats, no waxing just a power wash a couple of times a year. Usually didn’t need fenders except to protect other boats. We had them to use as work boats when we were on patrol. Closed foam filled so they were unsinkable but even the plastic HDPE would float on its own. One downside was that the hull would deform if they were not supported properly and there was no fix after that. So if you had a lift you had to have the supports exactly how Triumph specified. No big deal unless it had been lifted for a time without being properly supported.

 

[Mako]

Regarding to "real" tug conversions, I had visited and received a proposal from a shipyard in Vietnam which specialized in tugs of about the size I was interested in (50ft-ish). This would be for a new build, so they would start with a design and modify it to be a recreational vessel. Certainly this is more advantageous than trying to convert an old, existing vessel.

In the end we both decided that starting with the design of a fishing trawler would be better than the lines of a tug. Even with similar displacements (56 metric tons) you could definitely see the difference in the bullocks - the tug carried its heavy weights more forward with little buoyancy aft, versus the trawler with its fish holds located aft (to be converted into cabin space).

I'll see if I can dig up some profiles so you can see the difference side by side.

What I find boggling is how there are real first class (multi-million dollar) tug to exploration vessel conversions and in every case they keep the old Fairbanks Morse 2500+ hp engines, instead of ripping them out and repowering with something more appropriate for cruising at "cruiser" speeds. IMO, if someone were considering a conversion of one of these monsters of 50 tons or 100 tons or more, then I'd repower to about 3hp per ton (max) and slow down for fuel conservation.

 

[JWellington]

Have you told the various biofouling critters this? HDPE running gear too?

No, and maybe you talk to them, but I just go by what Ive researched so far, as most others do.

 

[JWellington]

You can't even decipher the original pics you posted.

My 40 ft trawler has about 5X the interior space and outside spaces are more usable.

I admire your dreams, not your realities.

Maybe your 40 footer is 3 or 4 stories tall to have 5X capacity.

 

[JWellington]

Still doesn't matter
It still only has a 6 knot cruise on electric

and a 150kw genset is 200+ hp
100hp a side in a diesel propulsion engine is going to give it a lot better than a 6 knot cruise speed

and then it has all that solar and huge 225kwh battery bank for running its niceties but of course it wont need anything like that, not even a small fraction of it
(we are upgrading to 840ah @ 24v that = 20kwh)
All that money saved will pay for a hell of a lot of diesel

Nice idea but the maths doesn't add up financially

I think it DOES matter that you were wrong, but at least thanks for conceding you were . Here's the next point you were wrong about.....6kt criuse on electric. Actually its 60kt, at 6kts speed. At 4kts speed, it goes 100kts distance. Big difference, right? If you want to hear their technical director say that on his youtube, youll find it. Nice to hear yoyre upgrading ....all the way to 20kWh, as compared to the 225 of the Silent 55 that you keep getting wrong.

 

[JWellington]

Regarding to "real" tug conversions, I had visited and received a proposal from a shipyard in Vietnam which specialized in tugs of about the size I was interested in (50ft-ish). This would be for a new build, so they would start with a design and modify it to be a recreational vessel. Certainly this is more advantageous than trying to convert an old, existing vessel.

In the end we both decided that starting with the design of a fishing trawler would be better than the lines of a tug. Even with similar displacements (56 metric tons) you could definitely see the difference in the bullocks - the tug carried its heavy weights more forward with little buoyancy aft, versus the trawler with its fish holds located aft (to be converted into cabin space).

I'll see if I can dig up some profiles so you can see the difference side by side.

What I find boggling is how there are real first class (multi-million dollar) tug to exploration vessel conversions and in every case they keep the old Fairbanks Morse 2500+ hp engines, instead of ripping them out and repowering with something more appropriate for cruising at "cruiser" speeds. IMO, if someone were considering a conversion of one of these monsters of 50 tons or 100 tons or more, then I'd repower to about 3hp per ton (max) and slow down for fuel conservation.

Yes, quite right, especially your point that if a person wants these conversions, its better to do them on new builds, rather than old ones. But we keep seeing that many people in these forums simply dont like the idea of having boats that look like tugs or fishing boats, or anything unusual. Then , instead of just saying they dont like them, they try to say its not possible, or feasable, etc. Or, usually too, that THEY just cant cant afford them.
Thanks, and that would be great if you could dig up those profiles.

 

[JWellington]

We have owned 2 Triumph boats. They were rotocast HDPE. They were pretty amazing boats. They rode quite well since they flexed a bit underway so they didn’t slam much if at all. I have literally taken a sledge hammer and hit the hull as hard as I could and the sledge hammer just bounced off. It was a demonstration for a friend that told me since it was plastic it couldn’t be a durable as his fiberglass boat, but he wasn’t willing to let me hit his boat with the sledge. Triumph did give instructions on how to apply bottom paint to the boat. Basically you took a propane torch and flamed the areas to be painted. Just a pass over it to do something to the plastic to enable the paint to stick. They were great boats, no waxing just a power wash a couple of times a year. Usually didn’t need fenders except to protect other boats. We had them to use as work boats when we were on patrol. Closed foam filled so they were unsinkable but even the plastic HDPE would float on its own. One downside was that the hull would deform if they were not supported properly and there was no fix after that. So if you had a lift you had to have the supports exactly how Triumph specified. No big deal unless it had been lifted for a time without being properly supported.

Thanks, that was some useful info about these HDPE boats, very interesting. So far I hadnt heard the point about support on lifts. I see a few of the Turkish yards specialize in them these days, and make all sorts of work boats out of them, up to about 17 or 19 meters.

 

[JWellington]

Two positives.
1) windshield is true Trawler
2) you will never have to worry about hitting a deadhead.

See Commodordaves comments on his sledghammer test.

 

[SteveK]

Yes, quite right, especially your point that if a person wants these conversions, its better to do them on new builds, rather than old ones. But we keep seeing that many people in these forums simply dont like the idea of having boats that look like tugs or fishing boats, or anything unusual. .......

speaking for myself only.
I have not seen many conversions which look like they were factory design. That is to say original build lines that look like it came off a drawing board.

Then I am biased to the old classics, my current boat is 50 years old. I much prefer to bring back to life or maintain an old classic than to recreate an existing boat.

You will succeed in building your dream, but when finished it will look like a conversion. That nose which belongs now, will not belong on a pleasure craft.
OK, guess I said I don't like it, you were right.

 

[psneeld]

Maybe your 40 footer is 3 or 4 stories tall to have 5X capacity.

As I posted, look closely at the diagram you posted and any 36 or 40 foot trawler interior spaces.

I don't disagree it looks like a fun boat...I have operated several, real commercial tugs...a liveaboard though?

I think for most they would realize the difference in storage and relaxing space....both essential for liveaboards.

I like all the boats you are talking about, but after living aboard 3 different style boats for over 16 years, I have a clue of what I like and don't like in both boats in general and liveaboards as well.

 

[JWellington]

speaking for myself only.
I have not seen many conversions which look like they were factory design. That is to say original build lines that look like it came off a drawing board.

Then I am biased to the old classics, my current boat is 50 years old. I much prefer to bring back to life or maintain an old classic than to recreate an existing boat.

You will succeed in building your dream, but when finished it will look like a conversion. That nose which belongs now, will not belong on a pleasure craft.
OK, guess I said I don't like it, you were right.

Its why we have the expression, 'each to his own taste'. But, my "dream"? Its simply another interesting boat I found, unusual bevause if its HDPE hull, and manageble size for a tugboat. Im discussing it as an intetesting conversion, not a dreamboat.

 

[JWellington]

As I posted, look closely at the diagram you posted and any 36 or 40 foot trawler interior spaces.

I don't disagree it looks like a fun boat...I have operated several, real commercial tugs...a liveaboard though?

I think for most they would realize the difference in storage and relaxing space....both essential for liveaboards.

I like all the boats you are talking about, but after living aboard 3 different style boats for over 16 years, I have a clue of what I like and don't like in both boats in general and liveaboards as well.

Apparently you missed my comments on what conversions Id make.

 

[psneeld]

Apparently you missed my comments on what conversions Id make.

Still depends on you design but the tug is only so big with portions that aren't really capable of redesign. So good luck..... but I will bet not one naval architect will suggest what you want

Too many other option a out there with z better foundation to start from like others have stated.

Again, it's a very interesting vessel, but to convert it to a liveaboard is like suggesting converting a smal CONEX box to a motorhome.

 

[JWellington]

Still depends on you design but the tug is only so big with portions that aren't really capable of redesign. So good luck..... but I will bet not one naval architect will suggest what you want

Too many other option a out there with z better foundation to start from like others have stated.

Again, it's a very interesting vessel, but to convert it to a liveaboard is like suggesting converting a smal CONEX box to a motorhome.

Yes, 40foot boats are only so big. I just dont know how people manage with them. Thanks for reminding me that there are 50 and 60 footers out there.

 

[psneeld]

Yes, 40foot boats are only so big. I just dont know how people manage with them. Thanks for reminding me that there are 50 and 60 footers out there.

Again way off base. Lots of room in smaller vessels designed for living aboard...not a commercial tug layout that you want to modify.


You seem to follow a perception of your wishes much better than realities pointed out.

 

[Simi 60]

I think it DOES matter that you were wrong, but at least thanks for conceding you were .

You are not very smart are you.
I quoted a published article on the vessel, I never wrote the article.
How does that equate to me getting it wrong?

Here's the next point you were wrong about.....6kt criuse on electric. Actually its 60kt, at 6kts speed. At 4kts speed, it goes 100kts distance. Big difference, right?

What??
That makes no sense
How can it travel at 60knots at 6 knots
More evidence of your lack of smarts
One is distance, the other is speed - they are not the same or interchangeable
Nauticle miles, perhaps you have heard of them

If you want to hear their technical director say that on his youtube, youll find it. Nice to hear yoyre upgrading ....all the way to 20kWh, as compared to the 225 of the Silent 55

Clearly our vessel is more efficient

that you keep getting wrong.

Says the guy who keeps getting everything wrong.

Going by all the spelling mistakes I guess you were pretty angry as you smashed out that response.

 

[JWellington]

Simi60....... I'm this smart: when you got the stats wrong, I went to the company site and got the correct ones. Then when you got the second point wrong, I quoted the technical director that makes them....and of course i meant nautical miles..so 60 nautical miles, and 100 of them at 4kts speed, of course.
Addendum on spelling: big fingers small keyboard. I leave the fussing over typos to the old school marm types.

 

[OldDan1943]

JW, I went from a 46 to a 34 and a store room.
If one gets creative, one can find space and places not only for stuff but also places for custom cabinets. The only thing that really cannot be expanded is 'hanging closet'

 

[Simi 60]

Simi60. Im this smart: when you got the stats wrong, I went to the company site and got the correct ones.Then when you got the second point wrong,
.

Again, not very smart are you.
I didn't get the stats wrong, I never wrote them.
I quoted them from an article written by somone else.
A smart person would realise that.

I quoted the technical director that makes them...

.
Did you?
Did you really?

So if I go and look at the video I will see the same confusion there that you have?
You did say you quoted him right?

and of course i meant nautical miles..so 60 nautical miles, and 100 of them at 4kts speed, of course

Oh, so you didn't quote him at all

Add: and yes, I have big fingers doing this on a small keyboard as well but don't seem to have an issue with the spelling.