Trawler VS Express (Space vs Speed)?

[Birdman]

Thanks for the responses guys! Keep them coming... in particular, anyone who has transitioned from fast to slow, how was that transition for you?

I agree. Good answer Ted!

Only thing I can add to everyone's comments is this, "Make sure it has Auto Pilot!"

There is one very boring 50 mile straight run we take to get to eastern Long Island. It used to take us less than 2 hours steering one straight course offset from the beach (Fire Island). It now takes us 5 hours.
That is downright painful without Auto Pilot. With AP, not a problem!!!

AP was the first money we spent when we moved up to a trawler last season from an express cruiser. Loving it... and planning to become full time cruisers starting the LOOP in 6 weeks!

Thanks Ray... Oh, I know the 50 miles your talking about well. But I have been doing much worse for 20+ years, offshore tuna fishing! Out the inlet (FI or Moriches) and then straight out into the ocean with nothing to look at, for 100 miles. AP is a MUST in a boat, I don’t even understand how people own boats without an AP, makes no sense. My AP pump died on one of my trips home from out in the canyons years ago, so I had to hand steer all the way home. I felt like I did a pretty good job holding course, but when I downloaded my tracks and compared the way out with AP to the way back with no AP, I could not believe the difference. It was almost almost a 10 mile difference, at 20 knots that is a 30 minute difference not to mention extra fuel...

Boat shopping, I don’t even look at or consider the electronics on the boat. All the adds and brokers say “Brand new electronics” or “Updated electronics”..... yeah right! Most of them are convoluted mix/match of either junk or good stuff not properly installed/integrated... I put $20 to $30k into the cost of any boat for new electronics of my choice (including satTV/AV equipment...).

Enjoy your cruise....

 

[Jgutten]

i went from a Mainship 400 to a Back Cove 37. We are both 70+ yrs old and we don't need steps anymore. There is almost as much room but my wife is very comfortable on the no step BC37. If she's happy, I'm happy. Plus, the Back Cove/Sabre company has been fabulous.

 

[Art]

Haven't had time to read every post. And, what I'm saying may be a repeat...

In thread beginning you mention going from a 30'er fisher-type boat that does 25 knot cruise to a 40'ish trawler-type boat that might only do an 8 knot cruise.

Well... there are plenty of well equipped, comfortable boats that cruise really nice at 8 knots while still being ready any time desired to do 16 to 20 knots... or even more. A lot depends on hull shape and engine hp/torque. Trade off for increasing speed is fuel usage/cost. And, for most boats with semi displacement or planing hulls the fuel usage at the 8 knot cruise is quite reasonable [as long as you are sure to keep the cruise at least 1/2 knot below a boat's mathematically calculated hull speed]

Personally... I enjoy and recommend hard chine planing hulls; or, a not too close to displacement design semi displacement hull. Ya could call that design a semi planing hull too! LOL

Good luck shopping!

 

[garychurch]

If your willing to pay the price Outer Reef, Fleming, Grand Banks Aleutian, etc. are 59’ to 70’ motor yachts that can fill your wants, needs and desires. Only downside is the million+.price.

 

[PeterMcK]

That's why we went with a power catamaran. Good for all your requests except perhaps island bed is harder except certain models (some Lagoon 43 are sort-of), bigger boats or non-production (like Domino). I have a list of "long range power catamarans" which may be of interest. I have a longer list of power cats but haven't got around to publishing that anywhere yet...

I was about to direct the OP to your Blog, glad to see you posted.

 

[Warnercons]

Look at Semidisplacement Lobster Hulls

We have a 36 foot semi-displacement lobster boat style express cruiser that we cruise from RI to Maine every summer (Ellis 36) for months at a time that is perfect for a couple. We typically cruise at 12 knots, can run at 16-18 knots easily if required, and certainly enjoy below 10 knots slow cruising when desired. These boats are also available in extended models if you want a more enclosed living space.

The boats have a nicely sized cockpit and swim platform to satisfy your fishing urges and provide excellent outside space. Excellent down galley and dry head with nice seperate shower stall. Pilot area/living area very flexible with both pilot and navigator hydraulic seating that converts to living/dining/additional sleeping configuration at touch of a switch.

Most are single Yanmars in the 400-6oo Hp range with bowthrusters and some also with sternthrusters for maximum maneuverability. They track beautifully and can take conditions you likely don't want to be out in.

Your Long Island neighbor Billy Joel had both a 28' model and later a 36' model specially configured for his needs. Great boats built by generations of downeast boatbuilders.

There were a number of used Ellis boats on the market last winter but all sold quickly early in the pandemic. Check out their website.

 

[Salish Nomad]

Hi Bird,

Do you really want to go more than 40-60nm in a typical cruising day? We switched 18 years ago from 16-18 knots during our first 12 years to a much more relaxed 6.5 knots, and now 7-8. Got us where we wanted to go (primarily on the Inside Passsage), and we liked it much better for all the reasons cited by Pete M.

In our Nordic Tug we usually do 30-60nm. We can do 100nm or more in a day if necessary, but rarely wish to. Slower is so much more pleasant. And we have to bother with a fuel dock only after 600-800nm.

Yes!

 

[Birdman]

Haven't had time to read every post. And, what I'm saying may be a repeat...

In thread beginning you mention going from a 30'er fisher-type boat that does 25 knot cruise to a 40'ish trawler-type boat that might only do an 8 knot cruise.

Well... there are plenty of well equipped, comfortable boats that cruise really nice at 8 knots while still being ready any time desired to do 16 to 20 knots... or even more. A lot depends on hull shape and engine hp/torque. Trade off for increasing speed is fuel usage/cost. And, for most boats with semi displacement or planing hulls the fuel usage at the 8 knot cruise is quite reasonable [as long as you are sure to keep the cruise at least 1/2 knot below a boat's mathematically calculated hull speed]

Personally... I enjoy and recommend hard chine planing hulls; or, a not too close to displacement design semi displacement hull. Ya could call that design a semi planing hull too! LOL

Good luck shopping!

Definitely looking hard at the semi-displacment hulls... the one problem I'm seeing initially is they often look like "motor yachts" with no cockpit/aft cabin... We really want/need a decent size cockpit no matter what we end up in.

i went from a Mainship 400 to a Back Cove 37. We are both 70+ yrs old and we don't need steps anymore. There is almost as much room but my wife is very comfortable on the no step BC37. If she's happy, I'm happy. Plus, the Back Cove/Sabre company has been fabulous.

I love the Backcoves, and especially the 37 with the big QSB (525hp) cummings in it. You can easily get all the way around that motor which is nice (along with the forward access hatch to get to the belts...). However, while I would prefer twins for ease of docking and redundancy I could and would go with a single screw. But the admiral feels much safer in twins and pushes hard in that direction!

If your willing to pay the price Outer Reef, Fleming, Grand Banks Aleutian, etc. are 59’ to 70’ motor yachts that can fill your wants, needs and desires. Only downside is the million+.price.

I love the OR's, and Fleming's... Besides the prices, 40' or 42' is the max I want in my area.

We have a 36 foot semi-displacement lobster boat style express cruiser that we cruise from RI to Maine every summer (Ellis 36) for months at a time that is perfect for a couple. We typically cruise at 12 knots, can run at 16-18 knots easily if required, and certainly enjoy below 10 knots slow cruising when desired. These boats are also available in extended models if you want a more enclosed living space.

The boats have a nicely sized cockpit and swim platform to satisfy your fishing urges and provide excellent outside space. Excellent down galley and dry head with nice seperate shower stall. Pilot area/living area very flexible with both pilot and navigator hydraulic seating that converts to living/dining/additional sleeping configuration at touch of a switch.

Most are single Yanmars in the 400-6oo Hp range with bowthrusters and some also with sternthrusters for maximum maneuverability. They track beautifully and can take conditions you likely don't want to be out in.

Your Long Island neighbor Billy Joel had both a 28' model and later a 36' model specially configured for his needs. Great boats built by generations of downeast boatbuilders.

There were a number of used Ellis boats on the market last winter but all sold quickly early in the pandemic. Check out their website.

I know the Ellis boats well... one of my favorite downeast express boats is the Legacy 40 or 42, also designed by Mark Ellis and originally made in RI now at Tartan in MI. I've been trying to talk Tim (one of the principles at tartan) for years to make me a custom version of the 40 or 42 Legacy to no avail as they have their hands full with other projects.



I've been a good number of the Legacy's ever made. Not too long ago (maybe 5 years?) I almost bought a 40 Legacy in Bristol, RI named Nerrisa. I should have bought that one!



Problem with them is there were not many made, and few for sale just like the Ellis brand.

 

[Jeff F]

I didn't realize the Legacy boats were Mark Ellis designs. I've only seen a couple, but they attracted me immediately. Now I know why.

I had a Limestone 24 years ago. One of his first power boat designs, I think.

 

[FF]

"We really want/need a decent size cockpit no matter what we end up in."

YES! Many folks follow the weather to boat in a pleasant climate.

There is a huge difference in enjoying the water from a cockpit vs enjoying the view from atop the cabin structure in an oxygen tent.

 

[Art]

"We really want/need a decent size cockpit no matter what we end up in."

YES! Many folks follow the weather to boat in a pleasant climate.

There is a huge difference in enjoying the water from a cockpit vs enjoying the view from atop the cabin structure in an oxygen tent.

On a mid sized boat - there's nothing beats being at anchor in an easy chair on the sun deck... watching skiers go by!

If you keep flappers on the exhaust so no wave entry can force water into the exhaust and double anchor the boat so wake action comes only from the rear... even tall wakes create little jostle of fore to aft bucking. Little to no side to side roll.

Easy pezy!

 

[rslifkin]

On a mid sized boat - there's nothing beats being at anchor in an easy chair on the sun deck... watching skiers go by!

If you keep flappers on the exhaust so no wave entry can force water into the exhaust and double anchor the boat so wake action comes only from the rear... even tall wakes create little jostle of fore to aft bucking.

Easy pezy!

I dunno. On my boat, I'd rather take a wake on the bow. Yeah, there's a little more pitching than taking it from the stern. But if I take the wake on the stern, I get a loud slam when the wave hits the transom and if it's a decent size wake, a large splash of water that gets the whole aft part of the boat wet where water shoots up through the slots between the swim platform and transom. Stuffing water up the exhausts isn't an issue for me though. With the geometry of my exhausts, it would take one heck of a massive wake to get water into the mufflers. Bottoms of the outlets are just at or above the waterline, then there's 12 feet of slightly sloped pipe followed by a 15 inch vertical climb (from the top of the exhaust pipe to the bottom of the spillover on the muffler exit).

 

[Art]

I dunno. On my boat, I'd rather take a wake on the bow. Yeah, there's a little more pitching than taking it from the stern. But if I take the wake on the stern, I get a loud slam when the wave hits the transom and if it's a decent size wake, a large splash of water that gets the whole aft part of the boat wet where water shoots up through the slots between the swim platform and transom. Stuffing water up the exhausts isn't an issue for me though. With the geometry of my exhausts, it would take one heck of a massive wake to get water into the mufflers. Bottoms of the outlets are just at or above the waterline, then there's 12 feet of slightly sloped pipe followed by a 15 inch vertical climb (from the top of the exhaust pipe to the bottom of the spillover on the muffler exit).

Wake would be nice square on the bow too; would likely make boat pitch a bit more that wake hitting us square on the transom... I dislike wakes on the beam while anchored; too much roll.

To enjoyably watch the scenery from our sun deck, of boats passing by [cruisers, tugs, ski boats etc], in SF Delta's freshwater sloughs we frequent nose to shore is what's required.

Most larger boat passers by are quite kind with with size wake they are throwing. Smaller boat wakes bother us not when hitting our stern.

 

[smitty477]

Wake would be nice square on the bow too; would likely make boat pitch a bit more that wake hitting us square on the transom... I dislike wakes on the beam while anchored; too much roll.

To enjoyably watch the scenery from our sun deck, of boats passing by [cruisers, tugs, ski boats etc], in SF Delta's freshwater sloughs we frequent nose to shore is what's required.

Most larger boat passers by are quite kind with with size wake they are throwing. Smaller boat wakes bother us not when hitting our stern.

Interesting - we always ended up in the cockpit near the water for many reasons. Often near home port we could anchor on one side of a low barrier island and watch all sorts of activities but almost always in the cockpit.

 

[Birdman]

I didn't realize the Legacy boats were Mark Ellis designs. I've only seen a couple, but they attracted me immediately. Now I know why.

I had a Limestone 24 years ago. One of his first power boat designs, I think.

Yep.... here is a 40 Legacy, thye have the classic lines...

 

[FF]

" Interesting - we always ended up in the cockpit near the water for many reasons."


One reason is close to the water surface the air will usually be cooler.

 

[Woodland Hills]

I did not read all four pages, so if this has been discussed already then disregard.
Why not buy a 55’ to 70’ Viking or Hatteras CPMY for $250/350k? We have a 63’ cockpit motoryacht that we can run at 8kts or at 15kts. It has three staterooms and three heads with showers and a home style galley with domestic appliances including a second freezer and dishwasher. We carry 1075 gallons of fuel, 375 gallons of water and 275 gallons of black water. We also have oversized stabilizers, a watermaker, satellite TV, a large inverter bank and air conditioning. If you and your spouse plan on being aboard for months at a time, may I suggest that you get a boat that is as much like a home as is possible.
When we bought three years ago, the asking price was $375k and we paid much less. This is a lot of boat for the money and you really can tell when people are talking about what a bumpy night it was in the anchorage and you never noticed!
BTW, we burn 10gph @ 10mph including the generator for a/c.

 

[Birdman]

I did not read all four pages, so if this has been discussed already then disregard.
Why not buy a 55’ to 70’ Viking or Hatteras CPMY for $250/350k? We have a 63’ cockpit motoryacht that we can run at 8kts or at 15kts. It has three staterooms and three heads with showers and a home style galley with domestic appliances including a second freezer and dishwasher. We carry 1075 gallons of fuel, 375 gallons of water and 275 gallons of black water. We also have oversized stabilizers, a watermaker, satellite TV, a large inverter bank and air conditioning. If you and your spouse plan on being aboard for months at a time, may I suggest that you get a boat that is as much like a home as is possible.
When we bought three years ago, the asking price was $375k and we paid much less. This is a lot of boat for the money and you really can tell when people are talking about what a bumpy night it was in the anchorage and you never noticed!
BTW, we burn 10gph @ 10mph including the generator for a/c.

Ok! Why not just go speak with Bill Gates as I understand he may be selling his 220’ custom yacht?? Thanks for the info, but I’m looking for a 40 (forty) foot boat, 42’ max. It’s not the cost of the boat that is prohibitive, it’s:
1. Cost of maintenance
2. Cost of dockage
3. Cost of winter storage (I’m in NY)
4. Slips! There are few or NONE for boats that size at my home port which is in a small bay.
5. Draft! I have 3’ draft in many places, if I’m lucky and the tide is high!
6. I use the boat to go fishing once in a while, I’m not dragging 70’+ of “stuff” 100 miles offshore to go tuna fishing once in a while!
7. I really only need 1 bed, 1 head, it’s just my wife and I. A 2nd stateroom/office would be nice to use for an office once in a while, but not required. No need for 3 heads to maintain, or rooms....
8. ...... I could go on with the problems of buying a 70’er for me,..... you get the picture.

 

[rslifkin]

A 40 footer of any kind that can run safely in 3 feet of water is going to be very hard to find. My 38 draws 3'8" to the props, so figure you don't ever want to be in less than 5 feet of water. Something with prop pockets will draw less, but 3 feet of water is still tight. As an example, my dock neighbor's Sea Ray 390 EC draws less than 3 feet (around 2'6" IIRC), but 3 feet of water would still be a serious risk of a prop strike.

 

[Birdman]

A 40 footer of any kind that can run safely in 3 feet of water is going to be very hard to find. My 38 draws 3'8" to the props, so figure you don't ever want to be in less than 5 feet of water. Something with prop pockets will draw less, but 3 feet of water is still tight. As an example, my dock neighbor's Sea Ray 390 EC draws less than 3 feet (around 2'6" IIRC), but 3 feet of water would still be a serious risk of a prop strike.

I was exaggerating a bit, but not much! The point is, a 70'er isn't going to happen.



Tell your neighbor to have the 390 Junkray checked CLOSELY. The 39 in particular has a really bad habit of creating a siphon in the exhaust system and sucking water into the valves/pistons. Seizure..... I've watched it occur twice on the 39 searay. That same boat, replaced BO"TH motors 3 times, and they still were not running properly... There is an aftermarket anti-siphon riser you can get for them, but they don't always work.

 

[Baker]

I was exaggerating a bit, but not much! The point is, a 70'er isn't going to happen.



Tell your neighbor to have the 390 Junkray checked CLOSELY. The 39 in particular has a really bad habit of creating a siphon in the exhaust system and sucking water into the valves/pistons. Seizure..... I've watched it occur twice on the 39 searay. That same boat, replaced BO"TH motors 3 times, and they still were not running properly... There is an aftermarket anti-siphon riser you can get for them, but they don't always work.

That can happen in any boat with a poorly designed exhaust system. It is not something that is endemic only to Sea Ray. The key is to get the exhaust above the water line....they don't call them "risers" for nothing.

 

[Birdman]

That can happen in any boat with a poorly designed exhaust system. It is not something that is endemic only to Sea Ray. The key is to get the exhaust above the water line....they don't call them "risers" for nothing.

Yes it can. And the 39 Searay (among other models) was designed by a 2nd grader. This is just one of it's many very badly designed flaws. It's amazing they get away with selling those things, and after 1000's of owners having the same problem, nothing is done, not even a notification to have them looked at, never mind a recall type thing as is done in the auto industry. My opinion is Brunswick should stick to bowling alleys.

 

[rslifkin]

I was exaggerating a bit, but not much! The point is, a 70'er isn't going to happen.



Tell your neighbor to have the 390 Junkray checked CLOSELY. The 39 in particular has a really bad habit of creating a siphon in the exhaust system and sucking water into the valves/pistons. Seizure..... I've watched it occur twice on the 39 searay. That same boat, replaced BO"TH motors 3 times, and they still were not running properly... There is an aftermarket anti-siphon riser you can get for them, but they don't always work.

I'm pretty sure the exhaust on his has been modified, as it's had 1 engine rebuilt, 1 replaced before he bought it (not sure of the cause). And nothing in the geometry of his exhaust when I've looked at it strikes me as likely to back-flood the engines.

 

[Woodland Hills]

Ok! Why not just go speak with Bill Gates as I understand he may be selling his 220’ custom yacht?? Thanks for the info, but I’m looking for a 40 (forty) foot boat, 42’ max. It’s not the cost of the boat that is prohibitive, it’s:
1. Cost of maintenance
2. Cost of dockage
3. Cost of winter storage (I’m in NY)
4. Slips! There are few or NONE for boats that size at my home port which is in a small bay.
5. Draft! I have 3’ draft in many places, if I’m lucky and the tide is high!
6. I use the boat to go fishing once in a while, I’m not dragging 70’+ of “stuff” 100 miles offshore to go tuna fishing once in a while!
7. I really only need 1 bed, 1 head, it’s just my wife and I. A 2nd stateroom/office would be nice to use for an office once in a while, but not required. No need for 3 heads to maintain, or rooms....
8. ...... I could go on with the problems of buying a 70’er for me,..... you get the picture.

Have you taken your wife boat shopping and has she been on a decent sized CPMY yet? I’d like to read HER post about what sort of boat is needed to fulfill your plans.

Happy wife, happy life......

 

[Art]

I'm pretty sure the exhaust on his has been modified, as it's had 1 engine rebuilt, 1 replaced before he bought it (not sure of the cause). And nothing in the geometry of his exhaust when I've looked at it strikes me as likely to back-flood the engines.

Clamp-on Exhaust Tip Flappers - EZ PZ!! No water into exhaust back pressure from wakes or otherwise.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MItIfmye2M7wIVh-HACh3_WQ8gEAQYBSABEgIPwPD_BwE

 

[smitty477]

I'm pretty sure the exhaust on his has been modified, as it's had 1 engine rebuilt, 1 replaced before he bought it (not sure of the cause). And nothing in the geometry of his exhaust when I've looked at it strikes me as likely to back-flood the engines.

Depends on what year and what engines.

 

[johnma]

It was very easy for us. We had a 32’ express cruiser and our closest friends have a 48’ motor yacht they always ran at trawler speeds. Whenever we traveled together we ran with them at 8kts. We did that for 3 years and just fell in love with the speed. Cruising stopped meaning the destination, it became the “trip”. When it came time for a new boat we bought a 39’ trawler and never looked back.

 

[Birdman]

I'm pretty sure the exhaust on his has been modified, as it's had 1 engine rebuilt, 1 replaced before he bought it (not sure of the cause). And nothing in the geometry of his exhaust when I've looked at it strikes me as likely to back-flood the engines.

"...1 engine rebuilt, 1 replaced...", VERY typical, and EXACTLY what I was talking about. And this is not the only seajunk model having a multitude of issues like this. They slap them together with a marketing plan (no engineering), sell them at terrible dealerships that would sell anything, and look the other way/disappear.



It's not the obvious "geometry", or being below the water line type stuff. The 39 created a siphon from something to do with the vacuum pump pulling air inside the valve cover or some thing... The risers could be 5' above the waterline, it didn't matter. It had several serious compounding design flaws...

Clamp-on Exhaust Tip Flappers - EZ PZ!! No water into exhaust back pressure from wakes or otherwise.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MItIfmye2M7wIVh-HACh3_WQ8gEAQYBSABEgIPwPD_BwE

Those were tried, an anti-siphon contraption (designed specifically for the 39 junkray) in the risers was tried, and lifting the motors (put on a better angle) was tried, all to no worky.

Have you taken your wife boat shopping and has she been on a decent sized CPMY yet? I’d like to read HER post about what sort of boat is needed to fulfill your plans.

Happy wife, happy life......

Of course, we have been shopping for 25 years together for all of our boats! She does not want an MY, of any sort. She does not like the high center of gravity on many of them, or the look of them. But she trusts my judgement, and will be happy with whatever I choose. But she will certainly be involved with that decision. She is drawn more to the downeast express cruisers (Legacy, Sabre) and wants to go that direction. I'm the one drawn a bit toward a trawler, with more space, in particular the space in the engine room interests me! She doesn't go down there! We have been ON all of the types of boats, and know them well inside and out. What we don't know so well, is how well we could deal with their rides (aka going slow vs fast....).

It was very easy for us. We had a 32’ express cruiser and our closest friends have a 48’ motor yacht they always ran at trawler speeds. Whenever we traveled together we ran with them at 8kts. We did that for 3 years and just fell in love with the speed. Cruising stopped meaning the destination, it became the “trip”. When it came time for a new boat we bought a 39’ trawler and never looked back.

Thanks! That's the kind of feedback I really need to hear, on either side of the coin. I'd like to hear somebody say they switched to a trawler and can't stand going slow! And explain why it bothers them.... as comparison.


I really think I would be fine going slow, most of the time. There would be times I'd just like to get somewhere, but I think more times than not I'll just enjoy the ride. I think my wife would get anxious knowing how long we have to arrive from a safety standpoint.

 

[smitty477]

"...1 engine rebuilt, 1 replaced...", VERY typical, and EXACTLY what I was talking about. And this is not the only seajunk model having a multitude of issues like this. They slap them together with a marketing plan (no engineering), sell them at terrible dealerships that would sell anything, and look the other way/disappear.



It's not the obvious "geometry", or being below the water line type stuff. The 39 created a siphon from something to do with the vacuum pump pulling air inside the valve cover or some thing... The risers could be 5' above the waterline, it didn't matter. It had several serious compounding design flaws...





Those were tried, an anti-siphon contraption (designed specifically for the 39 junkray) in the risers was tried, and lifting the motors (put on a better angle) was tried, all to no worky.






Of course, we have been shopping for 25 years together for all of our boats! She does not want an MY, of any sort. She does not like the high center of gravity on many of them, or the look of them. But she trusts my judgement, and will be happy with whatever I choose. But she will certainly be involved with that decision. She is drawn more to the downeast express cruisers (Legacy, Sabre) and wants to go that direction. I'm the one drawn a bit toward a trawler, with more space, in particular the space in the engine room interests me! She doesn't go down there! We have been ON all of the types of boats, and know them well inside and out. What we don't know so well, is how well we could deal with their rides (aka going slow vs fast....).






Thanks! That's the kind of feedback I really need to hear, on either side of the coin. I'd like to hear somebody say they switched to a trawler and can't stand going slow! And explain why it bothers them.... as comparison.


I really think I would be fine going slow, most of the time. There would be times I'd just like to get somewhere, but I think more times than not I'll just enjoy the ride. I think my wife would get anxious knowing how long we have to arrive from a safety standpoint.

"I'd like to hear somebody say they switched to a trawler and can't stand going slow! And explain why it bothers them.... as comparison."

I believe I already did that on this post and explained why - we are also on Long Island as well and tidal currents cannot be ignored where we cruised with a trawler.

 

[rslifkin]

It's not the obvious "geometry", or being below the water line type stuff. The 39 created a siphon from something to do with the vacuum pump pulling air inside the valve cover or some thing... The risers could be 5' above the waterline, it didn't matter. It had several serious compounding design flaws...

In this case, his Sea Ray has exactly the same engines I've got (same year Mercruiser 454 / 340hp). There's definitely no vacuum pump or anything that could possibly cause a siphon. Crankcase is just vented to the flame arrestor, not to manifold vacuum or anything. The only way you're getting water from the exhaust into one of those engines is if you either fill the exhaust and overflow the riser backwards into the engine, or if the riser is too low in the system, water is left over in there and it splashes back into the engine after shutdown.