Towing a boat with my boat

[stanfromhell]

I've towed a few small boats for short distances over the years, but a friend has asked me to tow his old 57' wooden cruiser about 30 miles to its new home. I have a Bayliner 4788 with twin Cimmins 330's and boe and stern thrusters. I would pick a calm day with no swells and maybe 2' waves and max 5 knot winds. His boat does not run but he would be steering at his helm. Would tow him about 100' behind and keep the speed around 7 knots?? What should I be concerned about or is this not a smart move with a boat like mine?

 

[Comodave]

Have you done any large boat towing before? If not this could be a very challenging tow to start with. I have towed hundreds of boats but also had a lot of training. Personally towing an old wooden boat could be asking for a lot of problems. It could start leaking and then do you have adequate portable pumps to dewater it? Are the cleats through bolted and have a large backing plates? Are the cleats in solid wood or is the wood near the cleats rotten, think pulling a cleat out and tow line snap back. 7 knots is pretty fast for your first big boat tow. I would think more like 4 or 5. Remember that stresses go up dramatically with more speed. Can you do it? Maybe. Should you do it, probably not since you don’t have much experience towing and I would not recommend starting with a 57’ woody. Are you willing to accept responsibility for the boat if it springs a big leak and sinks. Ask your insurance company if you would be covered.

 

[rslifkin]

I agree with Comodave's concerns, although in open water, 7 kts should be an ok speed as it's well below hull speed of both boats (particularly the one being towed, which is the bigger factor in loads).



With appropriate hardware, preparation and a little experience, this should be a very reasonable tow in settled weather. But I'd be nervous about it without knowing the hardware on both boats is good and without having any towing experience.

 

[SoWhat]

It has nothing to do with the size of your boat, size of your engines, or number of thrusters. If you fasten the tow rope to cleats, are your cleats installed with adequate sized backing plates? What about towed boat?

Once you get into a confined area you can't stern tow. You must side tow. How do you plan to get him onto mooring ball? A 20 ton boat is not going to turn easily.

What is your plan if the wind suddenly kicks up half way there?

Why doesn't he simply repair his engine?

 

[Comodave]

Or hire a professional tower…

 

[rgano]

What will be your towing rig? if the towed vessel has chain anchor rode, consider letting out about 50 feet of it shackled to about 3/4-inch twisted nylon made up to two-point bridle from your stern. Can towed vessel veer and retrieve the chain? Seven knots might be a tad fast. Plan you trip for 4-5 and increase speed if deemed appropriate.

 

[Comodave]

It has nothing to do with the size of your boat, size of your engines, or number of thrusters. If you fasten the tow rope to cleats, are your cleats installed with adequate sized backing plates? What about towed boat?

Once you get into a confined area you can't stern tow. You must side tow. How do you plan to get him onto mooring ball? A 20 ton boat is not going to turn easily.

Why doesn't he simply repair his engine?

Side tows can be tricky, especially if the towed boat is larger than the towing boat. It can be done but positioning the boats relative to each other is critical, if positioned incorrectly you will not be able to turn one direction only the other. Even done correctly it is tough to control a boat that large.

 

[rslifkin]

Side tows can be tricky, especially if the towed boat is larger than the towing boat. It can be done but positioning the boats relative to each other is critical, if positioned incorrectly you will not be able to turn one direction only the other. Even done correctly it is tough to control a boat that large.

Agreed. But as long as the other boat isn't excessively heavy, wind is minimal and the Bayliner is placed so the props and rudders are a bit aft of the other boat's stern, it should be possible to maneuver the whole setup adequately to dock or moor the towed boat. There may be significant throttle involved in getting the setup to turn as desired though.

 

[Comodave]

Agreed. But as long as the other boat isn't excessively heavy, wind is minimal and the Bayliner is placed so the props and rudders are a bit aft of the other boat's stern, it should be possible to maneuver the whole setup adequately to dock or moor the towed boat. There may be significant throttle involved in getting the setup to turn as desired though.

Not saying it can’t be done, but it is a large boat to do your first side tow on. And does he understand even how to set up a side tow. When we had our 41’ President the local CG station asked if they could practice on it since almost all of their tows were small boats. Now keep in mind this was a 45’ CG boat with a qualified crew on board. They eventually got it done but it was a struggle for them since most of their tows are 20’ to 30’ boats.

 

[rslifkin]

Not saying it can’t be done, but it is a large boat to do your first side tow on. And does he understand even how to set up a side tow. When we had our 41’ President the local CG station asked if they could practice on it since almost all of their tows were small boats. Now keep in mind this was a 45’ CG boat with a qualified crew on board. They eventually got it done but it was a struggle for them since most of their tows are 20’ to 30’ boats.

Agreed, it's a big boat to learn on. I wouldn't use the USCG 45 footer as a great example though. Those are jet drive, which I can imagine being a giant pain when trying to maneuver something heavy with a side tow. Jets often don't have the greatest low speed thrust, reverse is often poor, and you can't use prop walk with opposed engines to help generate sideways movement to swing the pair of boats around.

 

[koliver]

As crew on the RCMSAR rescue boat, I had a call out for you a few yrs ago. Your tow started in flat calm conditions, but things started to go wrong when the wind picked up. You might have gotten away with it if your towline hadn't failed (don't know whether it was the line or the attachment, but it stopped being connected). By then the wind had really picked up.
By the time the dire predicament was obvious to the towing boat, and a Mayday was called, it was dark, and the guy on the tow was very low on cellphone battery.
With no operating engine, he of course had no boat battery, no VHF radio, no lights except his cellphone.
By the time we got there, he was within 1 cable of a reef that his boat couldn't have survived in those conditions. His life was in danger.
Using proper equipment, we got him under tow and hauled him to safety, changing to a side tow for docking.
The guy aboard the tow was knowledgeable, had a decent dry suit on, and didn't panic, but still, shouldn't have been there. I never met the guy on the towing boat.

Don't be that guy.

 

[Comodave]

Agreed, it's a big boat to learn on. I wouldn't use the USCG 45 footer as a great example though. Those are jet drive, which I can imagine being a giant pain when trying to maneuver something heavy with a side tow. Jets often don't have the greatest low speed thrust, reverse is often poor, and you can't use prop walk with opposed engines to help generate sideways movement to swing the pair of boats around.

It had nothing to do with the jet drives, it was lack of recent experience towing a large boat. Once they finally got the lines properly hooked up the 45 handled the side tow just fine. All of their tows are small boats so they didn’t have to use all the dock lines when side towing them and they had forgotten exactly how all the lines should be attached to both boats. And a PO1 that couldn’t tie a clove hitch didn’t help either…

 

[rslifkin]

It had nothing to do with the jet drives, it was lack of recent experience towing a large boat. Once they finally got the lines properly hooked up the 45 handled the side tow just fine. All of their tows are small boats so they didn’t have to use all the dock lines when side towing them and they had forgotten exactly how all the lines should be attached to both boats. And a PO1 that couldn’t tie a clove hitch didn’t help either…

Oh yeah, that'll do it!

 

[Comodave]

It was so bad that when they started to get underway with us in a side tow I had to tell them to abort the tow. They never secured the Number 1, or bow line, and so the bows of the boats would drift apart until something broke. It takes training and then practice to do towing safely and efficiently. Lack of either one can cause a dangerous situation.

 

[garbler]

Mr. negative here and my recommendation is DON’T DO IT ! Your available horsepower is really not relevant as a good towing hand can do this with a very mobile outboard boat. Towing a vessel requires good solid towing deck fittings that can absorb shock loads. No offense meant but your Bayliner lacks that kind of equipment so in less than perfect conditions you could be the one with upset cleats and damage. 100’ of tow line on a 50’ plus vessel of greater tonnage is inadequate on a multitude of levels. Towing is about scope and cantenary which is the shock absorber for this type of operation. Then when you get close to berthing you’re going to have to let go and have the experience to go back and rig a hip tow which is another procedure that requires experience and skills. Bottom line it’s not worth the risk for inexperienced

Rick

 

[SteveK]

Don't do it. The 4788 is no different than 4588 in this discussion and they are not designed to tow IMO. The stern cleats are set vertical and the line comes up and over the rail. They are not placing the load on a horizontal plane. Worst case the transom falls off, but at a minimum expect cracks that were not there before.
Then if you do make it the 30 miles, expect to pay a hefty fuel bill towing at hull speed.
Again JMO, former SAR and we towed big boats when we had to.

 

[CharlieO.]

Go rent a pontoon boat and use it as a push boat.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Towing a 57 foot woodie with a 45 foot boat is a case of the tail wagging the dog. And to be honest, Bayliners are really not constructed to the highest of standards. Your engines can handle it but can the cleats, steering gear and hull take the abuse?

You really need to consider the condition of the towed vessel. Can the wooden Sampson post take the strain? How about the sides? Will the bow get crushed from the strain? And finally, if the towed boat haas the engines and transmissions in place the shafts will have to be locked to prevent overheating of the shaft logs. This will create a tremendous drag, probably doubling what you might expect.

How much would a commercial tow cost? It would be a long day on the water but I'm thinking it would be $5,000 well spent.

pete

 

[CaptTom]

Before talking about transitioning to a side tow, I'd ask about the destination. If it's a mooring or a face dock, just slingshot them in. If it's a slip down a long fairway at a marina, maybe the marina has a work boat they could grab it with.

Anyway, a 30-mile tow in open water would be better left to the pros. Maybe you could negotiate a non-emergency rate with the local tow boat operator. Or hit up the local USCG Auxiliary unit and see if any of their trained crews want the practice (on their off-duty time, of course.)

 

[rslifkin]

I'd slingshot onto a mooring, but not a face dock. Too much risk there in my mind. Once you slingshot the boat, you better have a few people on board plus a few on the dock to handle lines. You've got no brakes, so if you miss a spring line or mis-judge anything, there's likely to be a crunch or a drifting boat that needs retrieval.



Personally, in calm conditions, for a face dock I'd go to a side tow. Just a nice, easy, slow approach at enough of an angle and then use prop walk and rudder to push the stern of the towed boat over to the dock. At any point in the process you have the option to crank on the tow boat engines in reverse and bail out.

 

[stanfromhell]

Thanks everyone for your valuable input. It opened my eyes to lots of things I hadn't considered.

 

[cafesport]

I’d explain it to friend like this, that while he’s only asking a favor, he’s actually making you liable for anything that might go wrong on his boat, your boat, and any others involved along the way. Pretty sure you insurance won’t cover any of if or when things go pear shaped. It’s a sail boat after all, why don’t the two of you make a day of it and sail her 29.8 miles then use her dinghy to put her into her new berth?

 

[psneeld]

I've towed a few small boats for short distances over the years, but a friend has asked me to tow his old 57' wooden cruiser about 30 miles to its new home. I have a Bayliner 4788 with twin Cimmins 330's and boe and stern thrusters. I would pick a calm day with no swells and maybe 2' waves and max 5 knot winds. His boat does not run but he would be steering at his helm. Would tow him about 100' behind and keep the speed around 7 knots?? What should I be concerned about or is this not a smart move with a boat like mine?

As you can see, lots of opinions, especially about equipment capability and what to expect on departure and arrival.

If you have any doubts, I wouldn't do it. Lots of risks and without lots of experience, a 57' wooden boat is a pretty big nut for the first tow. Especially for 30 miles and any close maneuvering.

If you decide to go ahead, especially for the advice concerning towing equipment and parts of both boats subjected to different forces, mitigate as many of the risks as you can. Try and have someone come along with towing experience (better if on the professional level) and a crew for both boats that think quick on their feet and can react fast.

Good luck either way...

 

[psneeld]

I’d explain it to friend like this, that while he’s only asking a favor, he’s actually making you liable for anything that might go wrong on his boat, your boat, and any others involved along the way. Pretty sure you insurance won’t cover any of if or when things go pear shaped. It’s a sail boat after all, why don’t the two of you make a day of it and sail her 29.8 miles then use her dinghy to put her into her new berth?

Think the OP mentioned cruiser.... guess that could mean sail but not the impression I got.

 

[tiltrider1]

What’s in it for you. Your friend appears to own a boat he can’t afford. Instead of hiring a professional tow he is very comfortable making you responsible for a whole host of potential liabilities. Have you asked your insurance company if you are covered?

You are probably a nice guy and you want to help your friend out but by now you probably are starting to realize that it’s just not in your best interest. Let your friend know that your insurance won’t cover you and has advised you not to do it.

 

[cafesport]

I missed that, I saw the bit about the owner steering and focused on that. Rudders on cruisers depend on water being moved over them by propellers, sailing rudders completely different animals. Keep the friendship and call a tow service.

 

[jgwinks]

I towed a few woodies when I worked for the local TowBoatUS guy, but that was on his boat with his insurance. I'd be real hesitant to do it on my own. If fact with insurance the way its been lately I'd be more hesitant towing any boat than I used to be.

 

[Comodave]

When we were towing boats the CG picked up our liability as long as we were working within the scope of our employment. In other words as long as we were not grossly negligent. Not sure what our current insurance company would say about this situation. Since it doesn’t fall under the Good Samaritan I would want to make sure that our insurance would cover any liability.

 

[Arc]

A few things. First you can do it. 100’ is not enough . 200’ better as you need a lot of stretch to keep shock load down. Also you must pay attention to your engines . You can overload them even at 7kn. With low RPM it is possible to not have enough cooling for a heavy load like that. I always like a challenge. When you get to port just call a tow service to bring it in to the dock.

 

[tiltrider1]

OP said its a 30 mile trip. Doesn't mention tides or currents. Doesn't mention what maneuvering needs to be done to get out of or into the marinas. This is an easy 8 hour day or more depending on where the 4588 starts from.

Now maybe its a single dock with no marina on either end and its all down river. Maybe its a complicated marina on both ends and there is tidal action to be considered. I don't believe there is enough information here to make a recommendation to the OP.

At best we can point out the challenges and help the OP make an informed decision.