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Old 01-27-2019, 08:32 AM   #41
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Interesting, no 76A.
There isn't one here either. vhfchanl.pdf
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Old 01-27-2019, 08:43 AM   #42
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There isn't one here either. Attachment 84643
Well, it definitely exists - I have to use it at least twice every time we go out!
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Old 01-27-2019, 08:50 AM   #43
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Well, it definitely exists - I have to use it at least twice every time we go out!
76 is a Canadian VHF channel.
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Old 01-27-2019, 08:51 AM   #44
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It's a US one as well!
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Old 01-27-2019, 08:58 AM   #45
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It's a US one as well!
The FCC recognizes it as a port operations channel limited to one watt where the Canadians designate it as a ship movement and navigation channel as well as port operations also one watt. Those are basically the same thing.
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Old 01-27-2019, 10:56 AM   #46
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Chris, in populated areas..even the old system of pre-DSC radios worked pretty well.

Out of thousands of SAR cases I was involved with, often a good sam would be the key component in resolving them Either the actual rescue of key info leading to the conclusion.

Yep, that's what I'd have expected. You know we hear a lot of emergency and semi-emergency (?) VHF calls around this area... and it's pretty common that another boat "right over there" somewhere chips in with whatever help they can offer.

And I guess we've only heard the actual DSC alarm a handful of times over the last 15 years or so... More often, it's just a voice call. Or a Pan-Pan from Sector Bal'mer (now called "National Capital Region" I guess).

For that matter, even when we've received the DSC alarm those few times, I can't recall ever getting any location data along with the alarm. Might have happened once or twice in my own early days with these radios, while I yutzed around with the menus to look for associated locational data... but I really don't remember coordinates ever being available.

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Old 01-27-2019, 11:47 AM   #47
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The FCC recognizes it as a port operations channel limited to one watt where the Canadians designate it as a ship movement and navigation channel as well as port operations also one watt. Those are basically the same thing.
And yet...

https://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/vhfchanl.pdf

I have seen one listing identifying it as "intership."
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Old 01-27-2019, 01:13 PM   #48
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And yet...

https://wireless.fcc.gov/marine/vhfchanl.pdf

I have seen one listing identifying it as "intership."
It took a few minutes to get one that I could figure out how cut and paste, it's international so doesn't appear on US channel lists.International VHF Marine Radio Channels and Frequencies
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Old 01-27-2019, 03:45 PM   #49
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Wonder what this means:

Finally, note also that changes made by WRC97 shown in green have not yet come into force.

Edit: found it - but in came out in '96?

https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-wrc...nary-proposals
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Old 01-27-2019, 04:01 PM   #50
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Wonder what this means:

Finally, note also that changes made by WRC97 shown in green have not yet come into force.

Edit: found it - but in came out in '96?

https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-wrc...nary-proposals
I have no idea, apparently it's it has something to do with interference with shore based frequencies but reading governmentese isn't my strong suite.
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Old 01-28-2019, 12:58 PM   #51
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Sounds good on paper, but...

Stuffing a VHF radio and an AIS transmitter... maybe even sat xmtr and HF/SSB ... into the size of a smartphone... easily carried in a pocket... probably isn't on the near horizon I guess.

-Chris

Oh Chris but it is already here. In fact, a cell phone has the electronics equivalent of more than two VHF radios, operating simultaneously, no push to talk. Have you seen how small some of those clam-shell cell-phones are? Their miniaturization is limited primarily by the size of the keypad and the screen, not the electronic functionality inside. In addition to full duplex transceiver capability, each cell-phone includes a computer to automatically engage the tower (an automatic channel 16) and manage seamless transfer from tower to tower.



But here is the clincher that support my position: It is cheaper to buy, install, service and operate a cell-phone transponder in a drone than in a cell-phone tower!!!!!!!

Drones, a primary and a backup, would operate in selected bodies of water and 20 miles or so out in the coastline areas by going in circles and every 4 hours returning to base when relieved by another pair of drones. Coast Guard personnel could post guard duty from their home. Only the rescue helicopter crews would have to be in standby at the CG centers--Beyond 100 miles from the coast line EPIRB and the satellite would be the order of business.



Now imagine waterproof floating cell-phones that could be within range of a drone cell-tower.



  • Instead of 30 miles of range, it would have 100 miles.
  • Instead of push-to-talk, just talk.
  • No contact channel like channel 16 would be required because instead of several dozen channel, the cell-phone transponder can handle 10 of thousands of simultaneous calls.
  • Instead of one radio per vessel, one cell-phone per life vest. What good is your boat-mounted VHF radio if the boat sank?


So, I stand by my statement and in defense of all the boaters out there, no they do not need the safety course or a communication course. They already know all the procedures as some of them have been boating for decades. Besides, all these radio procedures will go out the waste side as soon as the drone- cell-tower or something equeivalent begin to show up. Should we wait until the Chinese start doing it or we really intend to keep America First?



For the moment, I suggest that you contact the marine towing services and ask them which modality is most frequently used to reach them when requesting assistance, VHF radio or cell-phone? You may be surprised by their answer.



Cheers,
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Old 01-28-2019, 03:58 PM   #52
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Oh Chris but it is already here. In fact, a cell phone has the electronics equivalent of more than two VHF radios, operating simultaneously, no push to talk.
Adding that whole VHF frequency range thing would be a big deal... as is 25W fixed/5W handheld power compared to cell phones. Let me know when you find one that can transmit in both cell and VHF frequencies, latter at VHF power ranges. I can do without sat freqs.

There's a reason a handheld 5W VHF is the size it is. There's also a reason why a fixed 25W VHF is a lot larger. And you'll remember both of those are significantly larger than a smartphone, let alone a flip phone.

There's maybe a way to solve that: store/forward from cell towers -- when in range of a cell tower. Don't hear anyone making any moves in that direction. And we are occasionally NOT in range of a cell tower, which sorta means emergency service would be blanked out in those regions.

Anyway, not holding my breath...

Wouldn't be bad, though, to have everything all in one and in my shirt pocket.

I do know the answer, at least for around here. Both BoatUS and SeaTow get more calls on cell than on VHF. But the ones they do get on VHF are usually those where a cellphone didn't work, for whatever reason. Probably don't want to strand those folks... and any given day, "those folks" could be different people, depending on where they are relative to cell towers around here.

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Old 01-28-2019, 04:12 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by rolomart3 View Post
Oh Chris but it is already here. In fact, a cell phone has the electronics equivalent of more than two VHF radios, operating simultaneously, no push to talk. Have you seen how small some of those clam-shell cell-phones are? Their miniaturization is limited primarily by the size of the keypad and the screen, not the electronic functionality inside. In addition to full duplex transceiver capability, each cell-phone includes a computer to automatically engage the tower (an automatic channel 16) and manage seamless transfer from tower to tower.



But here is the clincher that support my position: It is cheaper to buy, install, service and operate a cell-phone transponder in a drone than in a cell-phone tower!!!!!!!

Drones, a primary and a backup, would operate in selected bodies of water and 20 miles or so out in the coastline areas by going in circles and every 4 hours returning to base when relieved by another pair of drones. Coast Guard personnel could post guard duty from their home. Only the rescue helicopter crews would have to be in standby at the CG centers--Beyond 100 miles from the coast line EPIRB and the satellite would be the order of business.



Now imagine waterproof floating cell-phones that could be within range of a drone cell-tower.



  • Instead of 30 miles of range, it would have 100 miles.
  • Instead of push-to-talk, just talk.
  • No contact channel like channel 16 would be required because instead of several dozen channel, the cell-phone transponder can handle 10 of thousands of simultaneous calls.
  • Instead of one radio per vessel, one cell-phone per life vest. What good is your boat-mounted VHF radio if the boat sank?


So, I stand by my statement and in defense of all the boaters out there, no they do not need the safety course or a communication course. They already know all the procedures as some of them have been boating for decades. Besides, all these radio procedures will go out the waste side as soon as the drone- cell-tower or something equeivalent begin to show up. Should we wait until the Chinese start doing it or we really intend to keep America First?



For the moment, I suggest that you contact the marine towing services and ask them which modality is most frequently used to reach them when requesting assistance, VHF radio or cell-phone? You may be surprised by their answer.



Cheers,
I wouldn't be suprised because I was an assistance tower for 15 years, and USCG operational for 20.

While your theories may well come true, satellite communications for big ships have been available for decades yet vhf radios are still used quite frequently in coastal and port operations.

Until some sort of vessel ID transmitter is mandatory, how do you propose singular comms that would be any different than current vhf?
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