New project - Water System

[PhilPB]

Finally finished the salon with new insulation, new teak panel wall, new wiring and led lighting, removed and replaced cabinet/desk, removal of headliner and then sanded and painted ceiling.
Next project is to replace the water system. Current system is 30 gal tank, water heater with heat exchanger, all housed in lazarette.
Plan is to go to 120v water heater (no heat exchanger) located in galley where a never used ice maker is (this will also put the hot water 15ft closer to where it is needed). Replace all plumbing with Pex, add 20-30 gallon water tank, replace faucets and shower plumbing (both in shower and on transom).
Current system does not use accumulator tank and debating whether to add one to the system.
Of course, asking for opinions

[O C Diver]

The accumulator tank requirement is often based on which pump is chosen. Personally I prefer the more traditional accumulator tank and pressure switch.

Sounds like a good plan, just consider when moving the water heater and adding a new tank, whether all the change will promote a list on one side or the other.

Ted

[PhilPB]

Funny you mention listing. Based on the 2 previous owners adaptations, the boat lists to starboard quite a bit. The only way I have been able to level her is to deliberately keep more fuel in the port fuel tank (good thing they are 120gal each).
The best reason I can come up with for the list is:
1) All built in storage in salon is on starboard side (solid teak)
2) 5 battery bank built in same side <300 lbs
and
3) water heater on starboard side.

The additional water tank will go to port in the lazarette and the water heater will be mounted virtually on the centerline. I figure the weight of the additional water tankage will make up for the batteries.

[Choices]

Check the reviews on water pumps. I replaced two within six months. Third one is super quiet. Accumulated tank takes surge out of the system. Very useful to pump life. Really depends how you use boat as to what you need.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Choices

Check the reviews on water pumps. I replaced two within six months. Third one is super quiet...

Mind sharing the make and model on the "super quiet" one?

[Choices]

The last is a Johnson Pump, SPXflow. I usually want to hear pumps working, vacuflush, etc. But this thing is quiet. I have to work to hear it.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Choices

The last is a Johnson Pump, SPXflow. I usually want to hear pumps working, vacuflush, etc. But this thing is quiet. I have to work to hear it.

Thanks! I'd rather hear the pump running, too. But it's really loud in the guest cabin, and we have frequent guests who are light sleepers. I'll look into the SPXFlow. Maybe I'll hook up a light to indicate when it's running or something.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by PhilPB

Next project is to replace the water system. Current system is 30 gal tank, water heater with heat exchanger, all housed in lazarette.
Plan is to go to 120v water heater (no heat exchanger) located in galley where a never used ice maker is (this will also put the hot water 15ft closer to where it is needed). Replace all plumbing with Pex, add 20-30 gallon water tank, replace faucets and shower plumbing (both in shower and on transom).
Current system does not use accumulator tank and debating whether to add one to the system.

30 gallons, wow! Our previous was 11 gallons, two staterooms, 1 shower, never ran out of hot water. Our current is larger, 20 gallons, but in a bigger boat with 3x staterooms and 2 showers.

I don't remember the water heater size or location in our 34 Mk III... nor do I remember ever running out of hot water... but I think I'd be inclined to replace in the same location... and then replace the icemaker with another small fridge or freezer. (We didn't actually have an icemaker.)

-Chris

[PhilPB]

Current water heater is 6 gal, fresh water tank is 30 gal. New hot water tank will be 4 gal.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by PhilPB

Current water heater is 6 gal, fresh water tank is 30 gal.

Ah. I misunderstood... sorry.

-Chris

[socalrider]

Originally Posted by Choices

The last is a Johnson Pump, SPXflow. I usually want to hear pumps working, vacuflush, etc. But this thing is quiet. I have to work to hear it.

Thanks for the rec.

My trawler came with a Shurflo, which supposedly doesn't need an accumulator. PO had a tiny one plumbed in anyway. The pressure sensing switch at the bottom of the unit failed after 1.5 seasons - luckily I'd been nervous enough to buy a replacement unit. It's now failed as well after another 1.5 seasons.

I bought a few replacement switches which are cheap but this is not an acceptable service interval for me - we use the heck out of our boat for about 6 weeks/year, then very intermittently. Not good enough.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by socalrider

Thanks for the rec.

My trawler came with a Shurflo, which supposedly doesn't need an accumulator. PO had a tiny one plumbed in anyway. The pressure sensing switch at the bottom of the unit failed after 1.5 seasons - luckily I'd been nervous enough to buy a replacement unit. It's now failed as well after another 1.5 seasons.

I bought a few replacement switches which are cheap but this is not an acceptable service interval for me - we use the heck out of our boat for about 6 weeks/year, then very intermittently. Not good enough.

Many of the pumps use pressure switches that aren't very durable. There are 2 solutions: either use an external, higher quality pressure switch and bypass the internal one. Or keep the internal one, but add a relay to handle the switching for the pump motor (so the pressure switch only has to handle the relay coil current and will last much longer).

[socalrider]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Many of the pumps use pressure switches that aren't very durable. There are 2 solutions: either use an external, higher quality pressure switch and bypass the internal one. Or keep the internal one, but add a relay to handle the switching for the pump motor (so the pressure switch only has to handle the relay coil current and will last much longer).

I hadn't thought of either of those solutions - thanks. A relay seems like a decent idea and simple to implement - any recommendations? Looks like lots of automotive 12V/20a relays are available for $12 or so on Amazon, but no cycle life specs. Any ideas for a high cycle life unit?

[Choices]

I have a Sqr D prs switch ready to go. They last forever, and you can dial down the prs. easily. HD has them in stock.

[socalrider]

Originally Posted by Choices

I have a Sqr D prs switch ready to go. They last forever, and you can dial down the prs. easily. HD has them in stock.

Do they work with 12V? I'd think they would be 120AC.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by socalrider

I hadn't thought of either of those solutions - thanks. A relay seems like a decent idea and simple to implement - any recommendations? Looks like lots of automotive 12V/20a relays are available for $12 or so on Amazon, but no cycle life specs. Any ideas for a high cycle life unit?

I'd find a relay from a reputable brand (Bosch, Hella and others make good ones) and because it's handling a motor start, oversize it. Following those guidelines, the relay contacts should last a long time. As an example, the relay on my fresh water pump is rated for 50A (pump draws ~11 amps at shutoff pressure). The relay on my washdown pump is rated for 70A (pump draws ~25 amps at shutoff pressure).


Just checked my Amazon history, the 2 relays on my pumps are these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[socalrider]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I'd find a relay from a reputable brand (Bosch, Hella and others make good ones) and because it's handling a motor start, oversize it. Following those guidelines, the relay contacts should last a long time. As an example, the relay on my fresh water pump is rated for 50A (pump draws ~11 amps at shutoff pressure). The relay on my washdown pump is rated for 70A (pump draws ~25 amps at shutoff pressure).


Just checked my Amazon history, the 2 relays on my pumps are these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks! I just grabbed the Fastronix so I don't need to find the right lugs. I'll wire this in when I replace the pressure switch next time I'm out on the boat. Love this forum. Sorry to the OP for the minor thread hijack!

[Slowmo]

Are you going to add additional water tankage? That could be useful in ballast to even out the list plus you can't have too much water aboard unless you're always at a dock.

[PhilPB]

Originally Posted by Slowmo

Are you going to add additional water tankage? That could be useful in ballast to even out the list plus you can't have too much water aboard unless you're always at a dock.

Yes, that's the plan. I will add 25-30 gal tank on the high side which I figure should even things out a bit. On a side note, where the water heater currently is I will be adding a surface air supply system!

[Bmarler]

It’s a bit surprising your fresh water tank is only 30 gallon. Is that normal for your boat?