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Old 02-22-2019, 02:19 PM   #41
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My two cents; $2,000 to $4,000 is not worth the hard feelings, whether you hire lawyers or not.
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Old 02-22-2019, 02:25 PM   #42
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Because of your potential liability and because you said you liked the marina, and because the total cost spread out over the years you have enjoyed that marina is small. I will echo the suggestion that you eat it and forget it.
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Old 02-22-2019, 02:41 PM   #43
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I am a litigation attorney in eastern NC and, in my opinion, the crane company is liable for improperly lifting the sailboat and for using inexperienced spotters. If the marina's employees were spotting the lift that hit your boat, the marina is also liable. Does this mean you should file a claim? Hardly. For the many good reasons listed in this thread, many of which you have mentioned, it is probably best to move on and put it behind you. This was a very bad storm, walk away grateful that you only had 2-4K in damage. This sucks, but it easily could have been much worse, and might be next hurricane season.
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Old 02-22-2019, 03:14 PM   #44
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This sucks. You might consider that your relationship with the marina is already ruined by their unwillingness to make this right. However, if you want to try to keep your relationship with the marina why not just file against the crane company. However, if you have to hire an attorney this may just cost you time & money with only more frustration at the end of the day. If it was me I would consider this an opportunity to paint the boat a different color & and end up with a prettier boat as a result. Personally I'm a fan of black, dark blue or dark green but that's a whole different debate.
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Old 02-22-2019, 03:19 PM   #45
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Thanks to the OP and everyone else for sharing their insights about this unfortunate experience. At least it will help to educate us for the future.

I also know I would be irritated about damage done from poor workmanship. And I know that 2 to 4K is a lot of money to me :-) Would the hassle and irritation of getting the money balance out the irritation that it happened at all?
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Old 02-22-2019, 04:01 PM   #46
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It's a hurricane! You were uninsured! Get over it!
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Old 02-22-2019, 04:15 PM   #47
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Small claims... Pro se
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Old 02-22-2019, 06:08 PM   #48
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Craig: As a lawyer, I would recommend the legal route as a last resort! I find that face-to-face problem solving discussions are best. No chance to not take a call. I would try to suggest that their insurer, the crane's insurer, the yard and you have that face-to-face and see if some reasonable compromise can be reached. If they all see you are not trying to stick it to them, they might listen. If not, you still have the option to pursue legal recourse or "suck-it-up" and swallow the costs.
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Old 02-22-2019, 06:18 PM   #49
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Craig: As a lawyer, I would recommend the legal route as a last resort! I find that face-to-face problem solving discussions are best. No chance to not take a call. I would try to suggest that their insurer, the crane's insurer, the yard and you have that face-to-face and see if some reasonable compromise can be reached. If they all see you are not trying to stick it to them, they might listen. If not, you still have the option to pursue legal recourse or "suck-it-up" and swallow the costs.
I would look at it as a $2000 lesson that might save me $200,000 some day. What lesson? 1-To have insurance. 2-To have a written agreement because that would outline responsibilities and liability. 3-The nature of a hurricane damage and clean up is a lot of damage occurs outside the direct damage and even during the course of the cleanup. A lot of people are doing work they're not insured and bonded for and not qualified to do. The number one place where people get hurt post-hurricane is unscrupulous roof repairers.
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Old 02-22-2019, 06:23 PM   #50
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I would go face to face and discuss it with them. Recovering a marina from a storm is a horrendous PITA and the scratches on your hull are likely the least of their concerns.

If pushing the issue is creating hard feelings, be prepared to eat it and smile. Maybe they will discount some hill time rent. But since they are not answering the phones, just go there and meet face to face.

Hurricanes can destroy small mom and pop marinas financially, especially if casually operated. Small ones often can not make a living if all types of insurance are purchased.

For some scratches in a hull after Florence, count yourself lucky. And the legal route is a big time and money suck, not worth it for $2k worth of scratches.
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Old 02-22-2019, 06:37 PM   #51
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It's a hurricane! You were uninsured! Get over it!


Not my first rodeo with hurricanes in 30 years & not the worst one yet... This marina is new to me, only owned the boat for a few months before Florence, This was bought salvage as a project boat very inexpensively with a budget of 25k to repair, I can do all of the work myself on all mechanical & electrical systems , this is not my first project boat , I have enjoyed doing this type of thing in the past. The hardest part is finding the time being employed in the marine trade fulltime to play. You would think being in the trade I'd be smart enough to avoid this type of project. Fact is I did for many years until now. I think it was the flair of the bow & her shear line that got me back into doing illogical stuff, I just couldn't walk away from this one. one of the few things I was counting on was the bottom & decks were solid, hull would buff out looking sharp & the engine would run. I achieved all this before the storm, all I had to do was paint the bottom & redo the stern to launch & run the boat home to finish the interior, this is where the time & money would be invested using outside labor. I think the main issue I have here is the simple fact that 'if' I didn't go look at my boat just after the storm I would have never known how the boat was damaged. If I went a week later I would have just assumed it was damaged from the storm not the crane during clean up. the marina had the time to contact all the other boat owners to arrange payment for the crane but failed to contact anyone else either before or after the crane work to inform owners what they were doing. I think the yard should have also informed boat owners that they intended to pack the yard with boats just up for the storm to allow others to launch & leave for better shelter. This marina doesn't communicate anything but pay your bill . I think it time to burn a bridge. thanks all for putting up with the rant. but I do feel better about it.
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Old 02-23-2019, 02:04 AM   #52
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My two cents; $2,000 to $4,000 is not worth the hard feelings, whether you hire lawyers or not.
Really agree
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Old 02-23-2019, 11:06 AM   #53
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The marina storage is in inline in pricing in this area & yes I was slack on buying insurance, if there wasn't the storm all I had to do was paint the bottom & launch planned for in October including insurance overboard, got caught short no doubt about it. I was there the day the roads opened, called every day and left several messages over time. didn't want to be a total pest. went back to the boat shortly after the first visit to find the damages from the clean up operation. My job requires a lot of my time so I feel I did my part the best I could. We offer emergency storm services for generators, a lot of them owned by utility company's. the storm backed us up 45 days.

From the Marina owner's point of view and likely any judge in Coastal NC dealing with claims, yours might appear trivial and petty (not to you of course, I realize), considering whole marinas and homes were destroyed.


If you counted that marina's damaged boats would yours be in the top 25% or the bottom 25% in damage received? The marina owner is looking at everyone all together most likely, and addressing a host of needs or claims.


I think your best bet is direct negotiation, and if cash could not be agreed, a future credit on a haul-out/cleaning/blocking and a handshake might be your best bet.


A judge and the opposing party would zero in (regardless of circumstances) that you had the responsibility to insure the boat, but chose to forego that. With the background that some people lost their entire homes and waited 9 months for rebuilding, your position may not be strong and your best outcome in court might be the dutch split.


Attorneys range from $250-$500 an hour, if that is the route you choose. I would not recommend it. The aggravation alone would be worth several psychotherapy sessions.


Good luck.
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Old 02-23-2019, 12:17 PM   #54
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Through pages of excellent points, I'll toss out a couple more.

1. You've already given more time and energy to this than it deserves. You didn't take the time or make the effort to insure or to have a written agreement, nothing to avoid this situation. Yet, you'll spend days and hours and more on the after effects.

2. The boat was a salvage boat on which you're doing all the work yourself. You could have a hard time in that environment convincing someone that this little scrape was worth $2000 or $4000 or whatever. Suddenly you're claiming damage equal to 10% or 15% of the entire boat value. You're doing all the work itself, the most I would award you is for a few supplies. This doesn't merit a "repair to new condition". You say you can do all the work on the salvage boat yourself, well get to work doing this.

3. Now, your last post you said you think it's time to burn a bridge. With your response to this and your failure to take any responsibility yourself, I think they may very well not mind seeing you gone. How much did you pay anyway for months of storage on their land? I'm sorry, but the more you make out of this, the less sympathetic I become. I can just see the jury now with members on it who had their houses damaged significantly or perhaps the judge who had her two cars and boat destroyed and you with a photo where they can barely see the damage you're claiming. Do you even have a repair estimate or is it just your number?

4. Let it go and get on with life. You should be rejoicing with all the damage around you and you escaping until a tiny bit in the aftermath and so thankful that it cost you so little to not do anything to protect yourself.
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Old 02-23-2019, 03:17 PM   #55
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Through pages of excellent points, I'll toss out a couple more.

1. You've already given more time and energy to this than it deserves. You didn't take the time or make the effort to insure or to have a written agreement, nothing to avoid this situation. Yet, you'll spend days and hours and more on the after effects.

2. The boat was a salvage boat on which you're doing all the work yourself. You could have a hard time in that environment convincing someone that this little scrape was worth $2000 or $4000 or whatever. Suddenly you're claiming damage equal to 10% or 15% of the entire boat value. You're doing all the work itself, the most I would award you is for a few supplies. This doesn't merit a "repair to new condition". You say you can do all the work on the salvage boat yourself, well get to work doing this.

3. Now, your last post you said you think it's time to burn a bridge. With your response to this and your failure to take any responsibility yourself, I think they may very well not mind seeing you gone. How much did you pay anyway for months of storage on their land? I'm sorry, but the more you make out of this, the less sympathetic I become. I can just see the jury now with members on it who had their houses damaged significantly or perhaps the judge who had her two cars and boat destroyed and you with a photo where they can barely see the damage you're claiming. Do you even have a repair estimate or is it just your number?

4. Let it go and get on with life. You should be rejoicing with all the damage around you and you escaping until a tiny bit in the aftermath and so thankful that it cost you so little to not do anything to protect yourself.

Well put B&B!
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:29 PM   #56
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Well put B&B!

in total agreement.
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Old 02-23-2019, 04:43 PM   #57
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Through pages of excellent points, I'll toss out a couple more.

1. You've already given more time and energy to this than it deserves. You didn't take the time or make the effort to insure or to have a written agreement, nothing to avoid this situation. Yet, you'll spend days and hours and more on the after effects.

2. The boat was a salvage boat on which you're doing all the work yourself. You could have a hard time in that environment convincing someone that this little scrape was worth $2000 or $4000 or whatever. Suddenly you're claiming damage equal to 10% or 15% of the entire boat value. You're doing all the work itself, the most I would award you is for a few supplies. This doesn't merit a "repair to new condition". You say you can do all the work on the salvage boat yourself, well get to work doing this.

3. Now, your last post you said you think it's time to burn a bridge. With your response to this and your failure to take any responsibility yourself, I think they may very well not mind seeing you gone. How much did you pay anyway for months of storage on their land? I'm sorry, but the more you make out of this, the less sympathetic I become. I can just see the jury now with members on it who had their houses damaged significantly or perhaps the judge who had her two cars and boat destroyed and you with a photo where they can barely see the damage you're claiming. Do you even have a repair estimate or is it just your number?

4. Let it go and get on with life. You should be rejoicing with all the damage around you and you escaping until a tiny bit in the aftermath and so thankful that it cost you so little to not do anything to protect yourself.
What garbage. He doesn't have a signed agreement or insurance so it's ok for professionals to damage his boat? And you don't know how much time he's spent trying to get compensated for the damage & it's none of your business anyway. And he never said he wanted it repaired to like new condition, just wants it back to the condition it was in. The fact that you have no empathy for the OP says more about you than him.
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Old 02-23-2019, 05:05 PM   #58
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What garbage. He doesn't have a signed agreement or insurance so it's ok for professionals to damage his boat? And you don't know how much time he's spent trying to get compensated for the damage & it's none of your business anyway. And he never said he wanted it repaired to like new condition, just wants it back to the condition it was in. The fact that you have no empathy for the OP says more about you than him.
You're welcome to your opinion just as I am mine. However, it became my business the moment he started this thread asking for opinions which he has followed up with 17 more posts in the thread. Yes, my sympathy for him has waned greatly over the days of discussion and I'm willing to accept whatever that says about me. I went to SC after hurricane Florence and I shared my heart and soul (and money) with many who suffered the consequences. Some lost a lot and some very little. I recall one 80 year old woman and all she lost was the food in her refrigerator and freezer, but that was all she had and left her with no food and no money. She was driven to Walmart on a shopping trip by a young girl with us and replenished.

Note, I did change from empathy to sympathy simply because I can't empathize with him. I can't really experience his feelings because in his situation I wouldn't have the same feelings. I would have accepted what happened and moved on happy that was all that happened. We're all different and I recognize this apparently has caused him great anguish. Still, I've offered my advice as have others. He'll choose what to do and is free to ignore us all.

I do note also that your advice to him was to paint the boat a different color and end up with a prettier boat, preferably black, dark blue, or dark green.
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Old 02-24-2019, 12:13 PM   #59
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This issue is related to what I do for a living (for a few more months!). Were I to place a boat on the hard, or have major work done by a marina (e.g., $20K etc), as part of the work order, the marina will (if you ask) give you a certificate of insurance from their carrier naming you as an "additional insured" on their Comprehensive General Liability policy (and it costs the Marina zero) for things they do wrong and which are covered by policy (e.g., ordinary negligence, but taking a sledge hammer to the hull is probably excluded from their insurance, but your ins. would cover it). So i this case you would get a document from Geico, State Farm, Pru, whatever company they have, and it would state dollar limits and your name would appear on the certificate as an "additional insured". If a loss occurs due to their fault, you can claim, subject to the Marina's deductibles just as if you were the policy holder. So if you get a certificate that shows the Marina has $1M CGL policy with a 10K deductible, and the Marina burns your boat to the ground while painting the bottom, you call "their Geico" and make a claim subject to the 10K deductible. If the Marina's limits are exceeded (e.g., if your vessel they burn happens to be a Nordhavn 63), your policy will pick up the difference, if you have one, until its limits are exhausted. Hope this helps.
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Old 02-24-2019, 10:35 PM   #60
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Ask if rigger was certified. Riggers are trained and certified. Liability rests with both marina and contractor.
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