Help a newbie please

[Jklotz]

Hi guys. Hoping for a bit of help here. I'm looking to hopefully retire in 1 to 2 years time. My wife and I are not sure where we will live then (still a few family commitments), but we will be looking for a trawler, which we hope to keep in Fl. At the moment, I'm thinking maybe Tampa/St. Pete area, but that may change. We are hoping to cruise the ICW and spend some time down in the Keys, Bahamas, maybe even the caribbean, but keep a home base/slip in Fl somewhere. Back some years ago, I had a twin engine 32' Bayliner on Lake lanier, along with a little speed boat, but to be honest, I really didn't know what I was doing. I knew some basics, and being a bayliner, probably worked on it more than taking it out. This time around, it'll probably be a 41 Nordhaven, or at least something that's built like one, but I've got a while to figure that out.

So my question is this: Knowing that I have 1 to 2 years to prepare, what courses, training and prep would you recommend? I'm in Atlanta, and don't mind taking some long weekend trips, but will be landlocked here for the most part during that time. Any help or guidance you could offer would be most helpful. Thanks.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard. As well as taking courses (VERY good idea), I would advise you to start looking for a boat, as well. Start looking NOW!

 

[sjisailor]

Visit a lot of boats at boat shows and then charter one or two boats that seem like potential candidates. Many things look great on paper, photos, or videos but turn out quite differently -- not because they're bad but because individuals vary in what they want. (The N41 galley is a case in point for us, but others may not mind the arrangement at all.)

I would not recommend to rush into it -- except for a slip! There are many more good boats than there are good slips IMO!

 

[Comodave]

Welcome aboard. Contact the local CG Aux or Power Squadron and see what they offer. SW Florida Yachts, I think, charters trawlers and has captain training available. Google them and see exactly what they offer.

 

[High Wire]

There is a General Forum Topic named Boat Search 101 that will help you decide what boat you want. It is a good reading homework assignment.

 

[psneeld]

Here's what I see.

I taught Safe Boating Certificate courses in NJ for 15 years, also USCG licensing for years.

The new people absorbed stuff like a sponge... but experienced boaters clearly showed that they knew things they regularly did while boating were more entrenched in their memories, but things not so common or new in their boating...weren't strongpoints.

When the vast expanse of boating knowledge is thrown at someone without actual reinforcement, it really doesn't stick.

Most basic boating training covers fundamentals but not so much in-depth knowledge...but they sometimes provide the outline of topics that are required to be prepared cruisers.

So as you get boating fundamentals from a course or two and as you continue to read forums.... make an outline of the major topics covers or discussions started. Things such as weather, first aid, navigation, anchoring, boat handling in tough situations, etc...etc...

Then using that outline, focus on training or good references or written material that expands on them. Start to fill in the blank lines and add references or notes to the subject or where you can easily find it for review.

Then after you get your boat or along the way when on any boat, gain that practical experience to further build each or those categories.

Things like anchoring...you really have to "practice" to get the techniques down and get ideas on selecting good anchorages for various reasons.

Weather is some thing you can study every day. Check forecasts against the real outside conditions where you are. Local weather can be pretty different over area forecasts. Marine weather is usually always windier.

First aid doesn't have to be all marine related...some courses are good but there are marine first air issues that a first aid seminar at a marine related event may be a great addition.

And so on..... a lot of posters here started cruising even before their teens and have done all kinds of water since....long before the internet and affluent society where it seems people enter serious boating/cruising after a relatively short on cruising experience former boating life.

The difference I have seen between many with a late start on cruising...is they cram years worth of the old school stepping stone method of gaining experience in a relatively short time by using their new boat constantly and experiencing the different cruising tools and conditions.

Good luck.

 

[ranger58sb]

Hi guys. Hoping for a bit of help here. I'm looking to hopefully retire in 1 to 2 years time. My wife and I are not sure where we will live then (still a few family commitments), but we will be looking for a trawler, which we hope to keep in Fl. At the moment, I'm thinking maybe Tampa/St. Pete area, but that may change. We are hoping to cruise the ICW and spend some time down in the Keys, Bahamas, maybe even the caribbean, but keep a home base/slip in Fl somewhere.

So my question is this: Knowing that I have 1 to 2 years to prepare, what courses, training and prep would you recommend? I'm in Atlanta, and don't mind taking some long weekend trips, but will be landlocked here for the most part during that time. Any help or guidance you could offer would be most helpful. Thanks.

USCG Aux or Power Squadron "basic seamanship" (USCG name) course.

Charter a boat to include on-board instruction.

Find some friends to crew for.

Keeping (insuring) a boat in Florida can be tough. Either impossible/hard to get, or very expensive. You might also look into keeping your boat in GA -- above the "hurricane line" -- so maybe Brunswick or St. Simons Island, etc.

-Chris

 

[Jklotz]

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the advice.

 

[bumpkin]

Experiencing different boats is important. I was in your shoes 2 maybe 3 years ago and couldn't find a true trawler to buy. It was the luckiest thing to happen to me in boating. Trawlers are slow and only slow. I don't go fast much but, being able to go faster is really nice.

I didn't have the patience to take courses so I hired a captain. I got the advantage of his experience in addition to the information.

Mike

 

[Cold Duck]

Living on a boat is not for everybody. That said, regardless of the boat you choose, it will be a big change especially when you leave the dock. Life will be much easier if you are mechanically inclined because if it can break, it will. Your boat will be a compromise, money being the biggest factor. Most older boats were built without the first mate in mind. Mine would not even look at a boat with the galley down. She spends a lot of time in the galley and wanted to be "where the action is" rather stuck down below and not up. These are just some of the many tradeoffs you will have to make. If you are older say retiring, look at steps and ladders. These can be killers as we age. When you're 30 sumthin running up a ladder to the flybridge 2-5 times an hour is no big deal, different story in your 60-70s. The idea of spending time, a week or two, away from the dock on a chartered boat will help you see some of your needs in a liveaboard. The first time we full time went to liveaboard it took a month to get into the rhythm of the life. Once there, it was hard to go back. We have seen so many retirees move somewhere they thought would be their Utopia later to find out it was a great place for a 2 week vacation, but not their "Cuppa Tea" for living. Same with living on a boat. Try to get as much "sea time" as you can before you buy. I think you can make almost any boat work if you really are in to living on a boat. That's the question you really have to solve. Good luck

 

[Bacchus]

I believe there is a US Power Squadron / Americas Boating Club chapter in ATlanta.
If so that's a great choice to learn...
In addition to classes many chapters are now offering on the water sessions as part of their course work. In addition to the courses by joining you now have access to a number of individuals with boating interests in common and many with years of experience. Instant network of knowledge!

 

[firehoser75]

Good advice so far.....Power Squadron, Coast Guard, Charter Company courses, etc. There are many courses that are "classroom" only or focused. While they are worthwhile and many are almost necessary, I would suggest ensuring as much "hands on" training as you can, especially in the area of docking or close quarters handling (on board your own boat if possible). Many boaters lack skill/knowledge in this area and often find docking a harrowing experience. It need not be so except if attempting to dock in severe conditions.
For determining what boat best fits your needs/wants, start out by determining exactly what those are. Sounds easy, but some don't really explore this or think it through. For example, travel alone or with one other or a whole family. Guests often or almost none at all. Long distance trips or short hops. Weeks at a time or only weekends. Get to the destination as fast as possible, or are trawler speeds enjoyable? etc. etc.
Go to boat shows, look at as many boats in your size and budget range as you can, just to get a good idea as to what features are available, and what ones you want/need. Walk the docks and talk to boaters. Ask questions.
Then AFTER gaining a GOOD understanding of what it is you are going to be asking of this "new" boat, both you and your wife should write lists. What things/features are: needs (must haves); wants (nice to have); and do not want.
Compare lists and compromise, remembering that a happy Admiral (you know)
For me, some must haves were: good tankage, single engine, bow thruster, good visibility from helm, decent storage, room in ER to work, etc. Nice to have were: pilothouse, good ventilation (windows, hatches, and doors), bug screens, large fridge, generator, good electronics, etc. Did not wants: screwed down teak decks, exterior wood, flybridge, twin engines, etc.
There were many reasons for all of these things, and for others, these lists would be different (as our needs and wants do vary).
Once that work is done, you will have a very good idea of what you are hoping for in a boat (including size), and what you expect the boat to be able to accomplish. Also remember that you will most likely have to compromise, as it is rare to find a boat that "does it or has it all."

Beside all of that....... training, hands on experience, picking the right boat, other issues that will be important to consider and plan for will be insurance and moorage. Both of those can be problematic for various reasons. Start your investigations now.
Hope this was helpful and good luck,

 

[N4061]

Insurance

Times have changed and securing insurance can be a little more difficult. Suggest you reach out to a few insurance brokers and learn what level of training you will require prior to getting insurance. Some folks new to boating are surprised to learn after they find their perfect boat, they may not be in a position to obtain the insurance. If you end up requiring time with a license captain this will add to your training. I believe JMYS website has a good article posted on this subject. If not look up other major boat brokers online and search under insurance. good luck

John T.

 

[Jklotz]

Thanks guys, all very helpful. The America's Boating Club does have a chapter here with some classes. I already emailed to inquire. I'm looking into all the suggestions you've made.

As a side note, I did go to the Atlanta boat show a few weeks back. It was a letdown. Should have been named the "ski, bass, pontoon and jet-ski" boat show. About the only thing I learned was I don't want a boat with those "neonish" led lights that change colors like a disco, nor do I want stereo speakers that light up. I'm probably not in the demographic for that market.

I'm looking to try to go to the tralwer fest in Stuart, Fl in February. Worth going? Anybody been?

 

[Jklotz]

Good advice so far.....Power Squadron, Coast Guard, Charter Company courses, etc. There are many courses that are "classroom" only or focused. While they are worthwhile and many are almost necessary, I would suggest ensuring as much "hands on" training as you can, especially in the area of docking or close quarters handling (on board your own boat if possible). Many boaters lack skill/knowledge in this area and often find docking a harrowing experience. It need not be so except if attempting to dock in severe conditions.
For determining what boat best fits your needs/wants, start out by determining exactly what those are. Sounds easy, but some don't really explore this or think it through. For example, travel alone or with one other or a whole family. Guests often or almost none at all. Long distance trips or short hops. Weeks at a time or only weekends. Get to the destination as fast as possible, or are trawler speeds enjoyable? etc. etc.
Go to boat shows, look at as many boats in your size and budget range as you can, just to get a good idea as to what features are available, and what ones you want/need. Walk the docks and talk to boaters. Ask questions.
Then AFTER gaining a GOOD understanding of what it is you are going to be asking of this "new" boat, both you and your wife should write lists. What things/features are: needs (must haves); wants (nice to have); and do not want.
Compare lists and compromise, remembering that a happy Admiral (you know)
For me, some must haves were: good tankage, single engine, bow thruster, good visibility from helm, decent storage, room in ER to work, etc. Nice to have were: pilothouse, good ventilation (windows, hatches, and doors), bug screens, large fridge, generator, good electronics, etc. Did not wants: screwed down teak decks, exterior wood, flybridge, twin engines, etc.
There were many reasons for all of these things, and for others, these lists would be different (as our needs and wants do vary).
Once that work is done, you will have a very good idea of what you are hoping for in a boat (including size), and what you expect the boat to be able to accomplish. Also remember that you will most likely have to compromise, as it is rare to find a boat that "does it or has it all."

Beside all of that....... training, hands on experience, picking the right boat, other issues that will be important to consider and plan for will be insurance and moorage. Both of those can be problematic for various reasons. Start your investigations now.
Hope this was helpful and good luck,

Thanks for all that, much appreciated. Just curious, why no twin engines? Doesn't that mean you'd also need a wing engine? Wouln't maintaining 2 different engines be more effort than 2 of the same? Is it for efficiency?

 

[psneeld]

Thanks guys, all very helpful. The America's Boating Club does have a chapter here with some classes. I already emailed to inquire. I'm looking into all the suggestions you've made.

As a side note, I did go to the Atlanta boat show a few weeks back. It was a letdown. Should have been named the "ski, bass, pontoon and jet-ski" boat show. About the only thing I learned was I don't want a boat with those "neonish" led lights that change colors like a disco, nor do I want stereo speakers that light up. I'm probably not in the demographic for that market.

I'm looking to try to go to the tralwer fest in Stuart, Fl in February. Worth going? Anybody been?

Trawlerfests can be good for meeting people and picking their brains and for some of the lectures/training. Sounds like through the years not a lot of boats to tour so much anymore.

It is a good area to visit lots of marinas with lots of trawlers. Draw a circle from Ft Pierce to the North, Indian Town to the West and West Palm to the South and probably one of almost every trawler can be seen but not boarded unlesz for sale and through a broker. But if possible, roam docks and start conversations, many trawler owners will probably give a tour.

 

[ranger58sb]

I'm looking to try to go to the tralwer fest in Stuart, Fl in February. Worth going? Anybody been?

Used to be good, but it's been more than 20 years since I went last so dunno about current.

Try in-water boat shows to get away from the neon/stereo crowd. Annapolis, Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Palm Beach I think, etc.

Take a run down to Port 32 (nee Ortega Landing) in Jacksonville and arrange with a broker to view whatever happens to be available in the marina. Might be 9 0r 10... ideally to see a wide range of boats...

-Chris

 

[Bacchus]

I agree completely with Firehoser advice... important for both of the future crew to weigh in by writing their own lists. It isn't as easy as it sounds and writing it down forces more thought. Also make it a living document, especially for beginners. You may learn and modify your list as you view more boatscand talk to owners.

When walking docks & talking to owners be sure to inquire how they use their boat. Some features may be important for one use and not necessary for others.

Re: twins... it depends!
Where you cruise, distance from civilization, etc. I went from twins on previous boat to single with thrusters currently and wasn't sure how it would work. Turns out I'm completely satisfied but I don't cruise off shore and far away from civilization. Unlimited towing option provides the comfort level I need to sleep soundly. My running gear is better protected than any twin ( I do have / carry a spare prop in my spacious ER) and I maintain & have faith in my single engine. I dont mean to imply singles are the best for every situation and why it's important to think through your needs & priorities.

 

[firehoser75]

Thanks for all that, much appreciated. Just curious, why no twin engines? Doesn't that mean you'd also need a wing engine? Wouln't maintaining 2 different engines be more effort than 2 of the same? Is it for efficiency?

Single vs twins is a topic for debate here on TF, much like "what anchor do you use".
Each will have their own reasons, experiences, fears, etc. and there really isn't a "right and wrong" depending on various circumstances
For me, my reasons for not wanting twins are:
1) In the boat size we were looking at (sub approx. 42 feet) engine room space was limited, leaving no to very, very cramped access to the outboard sides (and sometimes the inboard sides as well) of the 2 engines. I do most of my own maintenance and smaller type repairs, and am not a contortionist.
2) Cost. Parts for maintenance and repairs are double (2 engines with similar usage characteristics). Higher labour costs if paying a "professionaL" due to 2 engines and more time.

3) Time. Twice the work taking more of my time away from other activities. Lots of work to do to maintain any boat to a good (to me acceptable) level, and didn't want to add another engine to the list.

4) Most singles have superior protection for the underwater running gear compared to most twins.


Marine diesel engines are very reliable if well maintained and operated "properly" (not overloaded, overheated, etc.). Clean fuel, clean air, and clean oil, don't overheat! A bit simplistic, but you get the idea. We travelled "off the beaten track" extensively and never worried about getting stranded. We did have towing insurance and a contract with a company that specializes with providing assistance in our general area as a backup. Never needed it. I also carried a reasonable spare part inventory and satellite Inreach comms, besides VHF radio, and cell phones. Our boat did not have a "wing engine", but that is an option on larger vessels. Good friends have a Kadey Krogen 52 (60 feet overall) that has a single engine with wing setup (very spacious ER), and they travel large distances regularly (Seattle to the Broughtons, Central BC coast, and/or Alaska) and have been doing so for over 15 years now, and as far as I know, they have never used the wing (I am quite confident they would have mentioned it if they did).
Boat handling with a single (especially with adequately sized bow and stern thrusters) engine takes some skill with a learning curve, but it is very doable without thrusters, but is relatively easy and manoeuvrable with them.
I did not feel that the extra "security" (really a feeling), and "ease of handling" (not an issue if the single is operated by a skilled operator or if there are adequately sized thrusters) often associated with twins was worth the "cost" (not just money) all things considered when compared to a single engine. JMHO.

This is also an example of what I was describing in my earlier post when I said I have reasons for all of the items I listed as examples.
Hope this helps.

 

[Finally Fun Again]

You sound just like us when we began planning, including a boat on Lake Lanier and one on Lake Norman, NC. Trawler Fests gave us a lot of good info - more so than other Boat Shows and believe me, we spent several years going to all of them, developing our list of what was important to us in a boat. We cruised full-time 6 years aboard our DeFever 50, from Canada thru the Caribbean. Newbies but we learned a great deal. I took a women's only course from SeaSense https://www.facebook.com/SeaSenseBoating/, living aboard for a week with 3 other women and a female captain. They also will come aboard YOUR boat and train you specific to your boat if you wish. We sold our trawler after 6 years of cruising, settled in FL and then purchased a power cat 39 Leopard, cruising part time mainly in the Bahamas and up/down FL for 4 more years. We are full of info...too much to type.. My blog has lots of info Finally Fun!. Issues with FL and insurance at the moment, with it being harder to obtain and with restrictions on amount of time in Bahamas, etc. so check that carefully prior to purchase. We prefer West Coast to cruise about vs East Coast of FL as soooo many wonderful and remote places to go cruising for long or short times... If you want to learn more on how we searched for the proper boat for us, what to do with house & belongings and what others we met did and all of that -- reach out to chat live. Happy to share our insights and our first year of 'oh ****...' moments which do happen and are hilarious in hindsight.

 

[Osprey69]

Used to be good, but it's been more than 20 years since I went last so dunno about current.

Try in-water boat shows to get away from the neon/stereo crowd. Annapolis, Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Palm Beach I think, etc.

Take a run down to Port 32 (nee Ortega Landing) in Jacksonville and arrange with a broker to view whatever happens to be available in the marina. Might be 9 0r 10... ideally to see a wide range of boats...

-Chris

Welcome aboard!

We live aboard at Port 32 in JAX and would be glad to show you around and perhaps get you aboard a few boats...PM me.

 

[Capt Ray]

I participate in 3 online forums: This one, MTOA, and AGLCA. I recommend joining AGLCA even if you do not plan to do the Great Loop... and attend one or two in-person "Rendezvous" events where they have "Trawler Crawls" ... fellow cruisers welcome attendees aboard for tours and talk about what they like and dislike about their choice in their current vessel. Incredibly valuable...

Boat shows of nice new boats ARE great too. But touring an actual "lived in" boat is hugely beneficial. Just participating in these 3 forums and the various club events (online and in-person) are the thing that prepared my wife and I for our move to full-time liveaboards.

Other training courses are great. My wife and I attended one. I got my USCG Masters license, from one for example.

Our legal domicile is in FL. But we actually spend more months north of FL April-October. So, that's how we solve the FL insurance problem. Our home port is in Maine. Our yacht insurance actually won't let us be south of Cumberland Island GA from June 1 to November 1.

Since I have answered these questions and other related ones so many times on the forums, I think I will be composing a Blog Post about this subject on Shellerina.com in the days or weeks ahead. Watch for it!

 

[Jklotz]

You sound just like us when we began planning, including a boat on Lake Lanier and one on Lake Norman, NC. Trawler Fests gave us a lot of good info - more so than other Boat Shows and believe me, we spent several years going to all of them, developing our list of what was important to us in a boat. We cruised full-time 6 years aboard our DeFever 50, from Canada thru the Caribbean. Newbies but we learned a great deal. I took a women's only course from SeaSense https://www.facebook.com/SeaSenseBoating/, living aboard for a week with 3 other women and a female captain. They also will come aboard YOUR boat and train you specific to your boat if you wish. We sold our trawler after 6 years of cruising, settled in FL and then purchased a power cat 39 Leopard, cruising part time mainly in the Bahamas and up/down FL for 4 more years. We are full of info...too much to type.. My blog has lots of info Finally Fun!. Issues with FL and insurance at the moment, with it being harder to obtain and with restrictions on amount of time in Bahamas, etc. so check that carefully prior to purchase. We prefer West Coast to cruise about vs East Coast of FL as soooo many wonderful and remote places to go cruising for long or short times... If you want to learn more on how we searched for the proper boat for us, what to do with house & belongings and what others we met did and all of that -- reach out to chat live. Happy to share our insights and our first year of 'oh ****...' moments which do happen and are hilarious in hindsight.

Thanks! As we get nearer to making any sort of decision, I will reach out to you. In the mean time, I'll read your blog. Thanks again.

 

[amapola]

You should be shopping for marina insurance estimates now. Be mindful that keeping a boat in Florida is expensive and some insurance companies require you to be out of Florida during hurricane season. We live on a canal in southwest Florida full time and keep our boat behind our home. We have a 1979, 48' trawler and paid nearly $4,000 to insure her this year. I'm sure insurance on a Nordhavn would be more.

 

[Jklotz]

You should be shopping for marina insurance estimates now. Be mindful that keeping a boat in Florida is expensive and some insurance companies require you to be out of Florida during hurricane season. We live on a canal in southwest Florida full time and keep our boat behind our home. We have a 1979, 48' trawler and paid nearly $4,000 to insure her this year. I'm sure insurance on a Nordhavn would be more.

Good point, thanks for posting. Contacting the insurance guys beforehand is definitely part of the plan.